Planes that will make the Hawaii trip

Henning said:
Personally I'd still like to build a nice transPac plane, not so much for getting there, but for the stops along the way. The Hawaii run obviously doesn't have any, but it's only the first leg of my typical transPac, and yes, it would most definitely land on water. There is a Lake Amphib that will do it that was built for the military, Seawolf IIRC, basically a tankered up Renegade they never certified. They come up for sale here and there.
Click to expand...

Would you be ok with an engine that used 100LL? Seems like that might be hard to come by in some of the atolls...
 
Having flown that route dozens of times, here is the smallest twin I'd take on it:

112352.jpg




A light twin or a single gives you almost NO redundancy in case of failure. Never mind the mind-numbing and butt-numbing 13-18hr flight. I know Bill Cox from P&PM does it, but he's a professional and waits days or weeks to get the right weather. He also charges a ton of money to do it, that should tell you something.


It's an easy flight though.. Take off out of LA area.. tap on the left rudder to get you just off of LAX's runway heading, fly about 5hrs and you're there.. :D
 
Sam D said:
Would you be ok with an engine that used 100LL? Seems like that might be hard to come by in some of the atolls...
Click to expand...

It's an issue but it's ok as the plane tankers a lot of fuel and there is100LL available at quite a few stops. The Continental Diesel is not that far off either, also since it's not certified, I can run Mogas in that engine/application with no problems.
 
Rex Kramer said:
I know Bill Cox from P&PM does it, but he's a professional and waits days or weeks to get the right weather. He also charges a ton of money to do it, that should tell you something.
Click to expand...

That being a magazine writer doesn't pay well? ;)
 
When Bill Cox published in an op-ed that GA was as safe as passenger cars, I was done with him.
 
davemha said:
I finally have enough saved, and have a decent enough income, that I'm going to start my flight training. And I'm moving to possibly the most beautiful place in the country for flying - Hawaii.

Now, to get back to the mainland. What planes (in order of price, maybe?) can make the journey back and forth?

So far, the only possibility short of commercial airliners or mega business jets I've found is the Rutan Long-Ez - and I think even it would need to be modified with extra fuel capacity.

I'd really like to find a plane that I might actually be able to afford that I could fly back home from Hawaii. Heh - maybe a Zeppelin? (only half-joking actually)
Click to expand...
I may be missing something in this conversation but I see tanked Single engined planes from KTCY flying to Australia via Hawaii all the time most of these guys are ferry pilots although I have not heard anyone doing that back and forth to main land
 
There is no way that I would ever want to do such a thing, but a guy that I went to high school with who is now an anesthesiologist in Houston flew his 210 around the world. His website is interesting (check out the pictures of the fuel tanks!) http://www.n30ew.com/

Very interesting that on the last leg (from Hawaii) he went nonstop to Houston!

Wells
 
Bill Signs at KADS did it too, also in a 210. Now he's rebuilding Beech 18's.

W. Stewart said:
There is no way that I would ever want to do such a thing, but a guy that I went to high school with who is now an anesthesiologist in Houston flew his 210 around the world. His website is interesting (check out the pictures of the fuel tanks!) http://www.n30ew.com/

Very interesting that on the last leg (from Hawaii) he went nonstop to Houston!

Wells
Click to expand...
 
jnmeade said:
Are you talking about the risk of an engine failure or something, or are you talking about the consequences of it? Do you think the risk and the consdequences are the same? Your little girl walks one block to grandma's house in a small, quiet midwestern town. The risk of abduction is minimial. But the consequences are incalculable. So, you don't let her walk.
Click to expand...
When you talk about safety "theory," there are three components to work with. The hazard, a credible adverse outcome, and the probability of that outcome happening. Put all three components together, and then you have a gauge of the risk. One cannot talk in terms of risk without plugging in all three, but then you have to have some way to gauge the acceptability of assuming that risk. Look up "safety management system" and "safety risk management matrix" and you will have an idea of how to set a standard by which you can measure whether the risk is acceptable or not.
 
wabower said:
Bill Signs at KADS did it too, also in a 210. Now he's rebuilding Beech 18's.
Click to expand...

Frank Haile did that three times Wayne, in his V-tail with the large tip tanks named after a popular CW female singer (g). I may have misspelled his last name, can't find his e-mail.

One of the fellas at ABS made a presentation on his flight last year.

Frank and the fella at ABS each left from California.

Best,

Dave
 
Uhhhh, I'm throwing a more money then brains flag here!

Just because you can BUY the plane that can do this trip does not mean that you will have the SKILLS (especially as a fresh PPL) to DO this flight.

You havent even become a STUDENT pilot yet, for all you know you will suck at flying, you are getting WAY, WAY WAY ahead of yourself with this, I know guys with thousands of hours that dont have the mindset to make that flight... common sense appears to not be very common :dunno:
 
London to San Francisco non-stop is far enough for me in one day. Those guys are welcome to the long legs.

Dave Siciliano said:
Frank Haile did that three times Wayne, in his V-tail with the large tip tanks named after a popular CW female singer (g). I may have misspelled his last name, can't find his e-mail.

One of the fellas at ABS made a presentation on his flight last year.

Frank and the fella at ABS each left from California.

Best,

Dave
Click to expand...
 
Hi,

I don't think there currently are any 4-seater aircraft (which is what you are looking for, yes?) able to do that 2,100nm trip with sufficient reserves on their normal tanks. It might require considerable more efficient power plants than what we have now.

I'm preparing for my own circumnavigation later this year, which will include either the Hawaii-US or the Easter Islands-Valparaiso legs (both around 2,100nm).

My Ravin 500 - a modern composite version of the Piper Comanche 260 with a stock standard IO-540 260hp - has integral USG160 wing tanks. We did a practical range test before Christmas, flying 2,400nm (after adjusting for wind) over 16 hours, mostly at FL100-130, LOP at around 50% power yielding an average ground speed of 153kts. We had about USG27 left, so actual range with 45 min reserves is around 2,600nm. We achieved around 17nm per gallon.

At 65% power and 170-180KTAS, the range drops to around 2,200nm with 45 min reserves.

While seemingly sufficient, it does not provide extra reserves for unexpected headwinds (VERY common in those areas due to very limited weather obs equipment) or diversions to avoid storm cells etc. So I've recently fitted a USG66 "Turtle-pac" collapsible ferry tank in the rear seat position - when not in use, it can be rolled up and stored at the back (empty weight ~12lbs). That will provide at least 3,500nm range and/or it will allow flight at a higher power setting or at lower altitude if required due to weather.

With regard to risk: Ocean flying obviously has a larger "risk envelope" than e.g a regional cross-country or a local sunday flip, but you just have to accept that and then reduce or mitigate those risks as far as is economically and practically feasible: redundant nav/comms, sat tracking and sat comms, immersion suits, offshore life raft, and so on. Same as with any other sport - you want to play rugby and not ping pong, well then accept the higher risk of physical injury and use training and padding to reduce the risk.....

Regards
Calle Hedberg
 
Calle, how much oil do you burn per hour ? Do you have a way to replenish oil supply if you had to ?
 
weilke said:
Calle, how much oil do you burn per hour ? Do you have a way to replenish oil supply if you had to ?
Click to expand...

Hi,

Not a problem - my ~3 years old Ravin has around 500 hours on the hobbs. Oil consumption from 100-500 hours have been nearly constant at around 1 quart per 8 hours of flying - slightly more if I'm racing (i.e. balls to the wall for a considerable amount of time), slightly less if I'm mainly doing economy cruise.

The absolute minimum for the IO-540 is just under 3 quarts and max is 12, but I normally keep it between 6 and 8 quarts (oil temps are a bit higher above 8, and it uses a bit more oil). So 8 quarts will generally be perfect for a 2,100nm flight lasting 13-15 hours..

Note that I don't have much problems with temps. CHTs generally stay between 220-350 degF even when it's 30-35 degC outside, oil temp is generally around 175 degF (although I can push it to 220-230 in a 10-15,000ft climb at Vx). So adding a bit more oil (I've never gone beyond 10 quarts, actually) should not be a problem, but why waste oil?

Regards
Calle
 
I wonder whatever happened to the OP?

Piloto said:
Mooney Ovation with 130+ gals in wing with long range tanks (no ferry tanks). Burning 8gal/hour (LOP) at 18,000ft they do 155kts TAS. With a 130+ gals that gives you over 2400nm. So you get a 400nm reserve for the trip. For this trip a piston twin has no advantage over a single.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. An Ovation with 130 gallons aboard is pretty much a single-seat airplane. It'll go forever, but it won't haul much.

I don't have the long-range tanks, but with 89 usable I can only carry 495 lbs at full fuel. Add another 41 gallons and I'm down to about 250 pounds.

Also, at 155 KTAS, it'll take 13 hours. A 30-knot average headwind is the max you can do, and that'll lengthen the trip to 16 hours! :eek:
 
Mafoo said:
If someone is going to blow up a plane, they are going to look like me. Check all of us.

Spending time looking for people who look like you, is a waste of tax dollars.
Click to expand...
Historically, many commercial aircraft bombings were done by want-to-be-ex-husbands who helped their wife pack for her solo trip.

But back to the original topic, the O.P. should consider getting something at least as big as a Cessna 172.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn4PzNMV5OQ

edit: Oh, NOW I see that this was a bit of a necropost. Oh, weil.
 
There are only three planes I can think of that can do it SP and without a onerous FAA approval of a ferry tank.

Mooney Ovation (2400nm)
Swearingen Merlin IIIB (2600nm)
SJ30 jet (2500nm)
 
stratobee said:
There are only three planes I can think of that can do it SP and without a onerous FAA approval of a ferry tank.

Mooney Ovation (2400nm)
Swearingen Merlin IIIB (2600nm)
SJ30 jet (2500nm)
Click to expand...
Don't forget, you can go Alaska->Midway->Hawaii, longest leg is less than 1500nm...you can do that in a Mooney J with long range tanks, probably a Bonanza with tip tanks and others I would imagine.
 
Where in Alaska? The southern end of the Aleutians? That's already a long way from anywhere. A very long way.

I know a guy who flew his own C-206 from San Francisco to Honolulu. We talked about the trip over dinner one night. Not my cup of tea, thank you very much. I'll stick with an airliner and a bad Mai Tai.
 
Stewartb said:
Where in Alaska? The southern end of the Aleutians? That's already a long way from anywhere. A very long way.
Click to expand...
It's 1420 from Adak to Midway, BUT according to Airnav there is no 100LL there, so you'd probably be looking at 1613 nm from Dutch Harbor to Midway. Long ass trip!
 
Stewartb said:
it's a long ass trip to Dutch.
Click to expand...
Yes it is....and it might take you a week to even get in there. My only time at Dutch Harbor was on a container ship coming up from Oakland. We had the most recent newspaper onboard (they hadn't been able to get a plane in due to ceilings).
 
Stewartb said:
it's a long ass trip to Dutch.
Click to expand...


Well of course it is, but if you are up for an adventure, it is a way without ferry tanks. Nobody is arguing that a small plane would be faster, cheaper or more convenient than an airliner.
 
LJS1993 said:
Dude the TSA gives you that many hassles when flying? I'm a 5'11 215 Latino/American with a shaved head and don't have so many issues with the horrible TSA. Shoot, the worst time I had was leaving SEATAC and even then it wasn't the worst thing imaginable. An eighteen hour flight across the Pacific in a small piston powered plane just to dodge the TSA? Wow!!!!!! Hardcore man....very hardcore.
Click to expand...

Agree. The TSA is nothing compared to the flight the OP is contemplating.

The SFO-Hawaii (there are other departure points) crossing is done frequently by ferry pilots with ferry tanks riding shotgun. There are no piston aircraft made with that kind of range.

And I'm not even getting into the risk assessment.

Unless I were actually repositioning a plane to or from... I'd take an airliner.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Hmmm. An Ovation with 130 gallons aboard is pretty much a single-seat airplane. It'll go forever, but it won't haul much.

I don't have the long-range tanks, but with 89 usable I can only carry 495 lbs at full fuel. Add another 41 gallons and I'm down to about 250 pounds.

Also, at 155 KTAS, it'll take 13 hours. A 30-knot average headwind is the max you can do, and that'll lengthen the trip to 16 hours! :eek:
Click to expand...

stratobee said:
There are only three planes I can think of that can do it SP and without a onerous FAA approval of a ferry tank.

Mooney Ovation (2400nm)
Swearingen Merlin IIIB (2600nm)
SJ30 jet (2500nm)
Click to expand...

Y'know, I'm not buying 2400nm for an Ovation, even with the 130-gal tanks. With a 45-minute reserve at 8 gph, that's 124 left, or 15.5 hours. 15.5 hours * 155 knots = 2402.5.

But, it's going to take you a lot of fuel to get to 18000 feet before you can get that kind of economy. My fuel burn on takeoff is 25 gph. Leaning during the climb, I'm back to 18 gph at 10,000 feet.

A max-performance climb to FL180 in IAS conditions, according to the POH, will take 8 gallons, 31 minutes, and 65 miles. So, we burned an hour's worth of our cruise fuel and knocked 90 miles off that 2402.5 miles, so we're at 2312.5.

They also show 8.3 gph, not 8, as the fuel flow up there. Doesn't sound like much, but on a flight this long it matters. We just lost another 87nm, so we're at 2250.

Of course, that assumes book numbers - I don't think I could make it to 18000 feet on only 8 gallons, though I might have to test it next time I go that high.

With the flight from Little River to Hilo being just shy of 2000nm, it looks like we're down to about a 20-knot max average headwind if *everything* goes just right. No thanks! :yikes:
 
LJS1993 said:
Dude the TSA gives you that many hassles when flying? I'm a 5'11 215 Latino/American with a shaved head and don't have so many issues with the horrible TSA. Shoot, the worst time I had was leaving SEATAC and even then it wasn't the worst thing imaginable. An eighteen hour flight across the Pacific in a small piston powered plane just to dodge the TSA? Wow!!!!!! Hardcore man....very hardcore.
Click to expand...

Get a know traveler number. $85 or free for DOD. almost walk through. No disrobing.
 
Why on earth would you want to spend 13-18 hours in a GA airplane?

Sooner or later you will have a mechanical problem that puts you in the ocean in any sort of piston airplane - so make sure you have a vest, raft, sat phone and Pirb as well as fresh water [or a still] and some rations.

It starts to get silly if you do it monthly or even every 6 months.

OAK - ITO is 2050 nm - with a few cargo and cruise ships occasionally. . . .
 
Morgan3820 said:
Get a know traveler number. $85 or free for DOD. almost walk through. No disrobing.
Click to expand...

Oh the heresy !

Get the NTN through CBP and you can skip customs when entering from abroad to boot.

Hawaii or europe start to be fun in a jet with a crew. With a piston it may have value as an adventure, not as transportation.
 
davemha said:
I finally have enough saved, and have a decent enough income, that I'm going to start my flight training. And I'm moving to possibly the most beautiful place in the country for flying - Hawaii.

Now, to get back to the mainland. What planes (in order of price, maybe?) can make the journey back and forth?

So far, the only possibility short of commercial airliners or mega business jets I've found is the Rutan Long-Ez - and I think even it would need to be modified with extra fuel capacity.

I'd really like to find a plane that I might actually be able to afford that I could fly back home from Hawaii. Heh - maybe a Zeppelin? (only half-joking actually)
Click to expand...
davemha said:
I finally have enough saved, and have a decent enough income, that I'm going to start my flight training. And I'm moving to possibly the most beautiful place in the country for flying - Hawaii.

Now, to get back to the mainland. What planes (in order of price, maybe?) can make the journey back and forth?

So far, the only possibility short of commercial airliners or mega business jets I've found is the Rutan Long-Ez - and I think even it would need to be modified with extra fuel capacity.

I'd really like to find a plane that I might actually be able to afford that I could fly back home from Hawaii. Heh - maybe a Zeppelin? (only half-joking actually)
Click to expand...
 
It's called United, American or Delta. 5 hours and 20 minutes, unless you're real good at the breast stroke!!!!
 
What ever type you decide on make sure that it has a relief tube and an autopilot. Or big enough for another pilot.
The smallest A/C that I know of that did a round the world (couple of times) was in fact a Rotax powered motor glider made in Slovenia. The Pipistrel Virus Short wing has an empty wgt of 650 and 1250 GW as a glider, 1320 as an LSA. Will tote lots more. The glider version has a 147 KT cruise speed. Don't know if Hawaii was on the routes. Good luck, I'm rooting for you.
 
Here's hoping... (especially considering I just rolled over 1/2 century this week...)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top