Plane in annual, should I do a pre-purchase

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kwc98

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kwc98
A plane I am considering purchasing, has just completed its annual, as in within the last week or so. So the questions are:

Should I have a pre-purchase if I believe that a quality annual was just performed?

If I do have an annual, should I get a different shop than the one that does the annuals?

The plane in remote. I am a first time buyer. I believe that the plane and the current owner are on the up and up. I have copies of logs, previous annuals (not the current one yet)

opinions?

thanks,
Ken
 
an annual and a pre-buy inspection are not the same thing necessarily. A pre-buy should cover the things you are interested in. Those may be beyond the scope of an annual. For example, the spar corrosion SB on a cherokee is not part of an annual but that's something you might insist on as a condition of your purchase agreement.

An annual inspection says this airplane is legally airworthy on this date. it says nothing about gotchas that could hit your wallet in a year or a week from now.
 
kwc98 said:
A plane I am considering purchasing, has just completed its annual, as in within the last week or so. So the questions are:

Should I have a pre-purchase if I believe that a quality annual was just performed?

If I do have an annual, should I get a different shop than the one that does the annuals?

The plane in remote. I am a first time buyer. I believe that the plane and the current owner are on the up and up. I have copies of logs, previous annuals (not the current one yet)

opinions?

thanks,
Ken
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Hell ya!

Keep in mind the annual is just for airworthy issues, not value issues, get your own shop to do it, otherwise it's like asking a criminal to investigate themselves.
 
I would have no doubt that the plane is airworthy condition having just come out of an annual...but your own A&P preforming an annual may be looking at the plane completely different as a pre buy than the owners A&P doing his regular annual to get it out the door to sell.

During my purchase, my A&P found a laundry list of things that did not affect the airworthiness, but resulted in a price reduction significant enough to have paid for his fee two times over!

There are many opinions here but having gone through the buying process as a complete noob, knowing what I know now I would not personally buy another plane without putting it through a full annual with my own guy regardless of when the last one was done.
 
A pre purchase would be the minimum,different mechanics look at different issues while doing an annual,the annual was done by the owners mechanic. Because an airplane is airworthy doesn't mean ,it is one you want to own.
 
Maybe the A&P who did the annual isn't quite in the pocket of the airplane owner? When I bought my plane one of my main research areas was talking to the mechanic who did much of the work on the plane.

Yes, it may be different if the A&P is a brother in-law working out of his barn.
 
sourdough44 said:
Maybe the A&P who did the annual isn't quite in the pocket of the airplane owner? When I bought my plane one of my main research areas was talking to the mechanic who did much of the work on the plane.

Yes, it may be different if the A&P is a brother in-law working out of his barn.
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Maybe he is

Maybe he's just incompetent

Maybe he's a standup guy

Who knows :dunno:
 
James331 said:
:rofl:

You're new to aviation?
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Yes :yesnod:...that is why I put my plane through a FULL annual when I bought it even though it has recently been done!

Trust but verify!...check that...screw trust, just verify!
 
The purpose of a prebuy is to satisfy YOU that the aircraft is in the condition it is being represented. At a minimum get a compression test and tell the owner to "go somewhere else" while you witness it.
 
Shawn said:
Yes :yesnod:...that is why I put my plane through a FULL annual when I bought it even though it has recently been done!

Trust but verify!...check that...screw trust, just verify!
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:yes:

For how much cash you're talking and the risks if the plane craps out, verify, verify, verify!
 
Shawn said:
I would have no doubt that the plane is airworthy condition having just come out of an annual...
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From Order 8900.1
3-4879 DEFINITIONS.

A. Airworthiness. Title 49 U.S.C. § 44704(d) best defines airworthiness by imposing a two-pronged definition. In order to be Airworthy, an aircraft must:

· Conform to its type certificate (TC), and
· Be in condition for safe operation after inspection.
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Ken,
I would highly recommend having a pre buy done by a different mechanic. I sell airplanes for a living and I always try to talk any potential buyer into having a pre buy inspection before they write the check.
I've had many clients do a pre buy within weeks of the annual being completed, and in every instance items that should of been caught at the annual were discovered in the pre buy, granted, most of the time they were minor. On a few occasions airworthiness issues were discovered.
The money you pay a good A&P for the pre buy is money well spent.

Mark
 
Absolutely get a pre-buy. You may also want the pre-buy A&P to issue an updated annual if you decide to go through with the purchase. It should cost you minimally more and will give you additional time until your next annual.
 
kwc98 said:
A plane I am considering purchasing, has just completed its annual, as in within the last week or so. So the questions are:

Should I have a pre-purchase if I believe that a quality annual was just performed?

If I do have an annual, should I get a different shop than the one that does the annuals?

The plane in remote. I am a first time buyer. I believe that the plane and the current owner are on the up and up. I have copies of logs, previous annuals (not the current one yet)

opinions?

thanks,
Ken
Click to expand...
I would ask the inspector of the last annual for a list of discrepancies they found and corrected.

Let's see how nit-picky they were.
 
Kinda hard to say since unlike an Annual Inspection, there's nothing in writing which defines a "pre-purchase" inspection. However, if that annual was not performed by a mechanic you know and trust, and is not beholden to the seller, you might want to get your own mechanic to look it over -- trust, but verify, and all that. OTOH, if it was done by a mechanic you really do trust, then just talk with him/her and see what s/he says.
 
Every mechanic that looks at any airplane will see different things. Pre-buy, yes. Absolutely.
 
Thanks everyone. Now it is time to start a new thread on let's find a good A&P for an annual.

-Ken
 
My plane is going into pre-buy tomorrow.. The one I am looking at buying had its annual done last month - but I will STILL be doing a pre-buy at a mechanic of my choice. Really simple. I couldn't imagine not getting a pre-buy regardless of when annual was.

When I bought my Cirrus I had my pre-buy converted into an annual - not that it will matter in your case being the annual so recent..
 
I had a friend do a quick inspection on my plane, but after what I've read over the last few years, I consider myself lucky. I would not buy a plane without having a reputable shop/mechanic do a prebuy. Too many potential problems that annuals don't necessarily catch.
 
Potential owners should do their own pre-buy (boy am I going to get flamed) and by that I mean a potential owner should learn as much as one can about the plane of interest-join the type club, talk to current owners, read, read, read-so they know the costly things that could go wrong that are not covered in an annual.

In the OP's situation, if he does know what he should about the plane he should call the mechanic that just did the inspection and do an in depth interview. If he is satisfied with the answers, that's the pre-buy.
 
How do we know the annual preformed on the aircraft in question wasn't done by the best shop in the area?

Unless you know the A&P's reputation, how would you know you will get the correct inspection?

Do you know you have paper records of every thing the FAA knows about your aircraft?

Do you know who is the last registered owner of the aircraft?

Do you know all the avionics works? (the annual will not tell you that)

Do you know that the aircraft will fly straight ? (the annual won't tell you that either)

MY suggestion is simply: go to the aircraft with check in pocket, fly it, check all the above, if you like the aircraft and it is what you expected, buy it, fly it home.
 
cgrab said:
Potential owners should do their own pre-buy (boy am I going to get flamed) and by that I mean a potential owner should learn as much as one can about the plane of interest-join the type club, talk to current owners, read, read, read-so they know the costly things that could go wrong that are not covered in an annual.

In the OP's situation, if he does know what he should about the plane he should call the mechanic that just did the inspection and do an in depth interview. If he is satisfied with the answers, that's the pre-buy.
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Holy Scat,,, a true believer :)

Why would you trust a decision concerning that much money and your life on someone's opinion.
 
Tom-D said:
Holy Scat,,, a true believer :)

Why would you trust a decision concerning that much money and your life on someone's opinion.
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I do it every year and so does every pilot that gets his plane back from annual. Of course, I participate in the annual and understand why and what is happening.
 
cgrab said:
I do it every year and so does every pilot that gets his plane back from annual. Of course, I participate in the annual and understand why and what is happening.
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You buy a new aircraft every year?? WoW
 
James331 said:
Hell ya!

Keep in mind the annual is just for airworthy issues, not value issues, get your own shop to do it, otherwise it's like asking a criminal to investigate themselves.
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:yeahthat:
 
Do a pre-purchase by all means.

I don't know how many I do every year but some of the worst aircraft had just come out of annual too. 950 hr 2012 Meridian needed all of the compressor turbine blades replaced from FOD. No warranty coverage for that and the nozzles were out for flow check and a borescope had been done only hours earlier. It goes on and on.

You can't know too much
 
A lot of things that break do so because some mechanic screwed it up. Not sure what the percentage is, but it happens....a lot.
 
coloradobluesky said:
A lot of things that break do so because some mechanic screwed it up. Not sure what the percentage is, but it happens....a lot.
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I'll bet pilots ***** about a lot of things they know nothing about. It happens, but not as much as you like to make out.

I'll say that more pilots break more things than a mechanic.
 
Tom-D said:
I'll bet pilots ***** about a lot of things they know nothing about. It happens, but not as much as you like to make out.

I'll say that more pilots break more things than a mechanic.
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Let's not go down that path.
 
Even if the mechanic is 100% altruistic and knowledgable all the annual says is it's airworthy today. It doesn't say "this engine is likely not to make it to next annual without an overhaul" or there's a costly AD coming up, or whatever. Prebuys are different beasts.
 
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