Plane Crash In Bonita Springs, FL (1/22/18) (Daniel Bernath / aka danielabernath)

kayoh190 said:
Not that I’d wish this accident on anyone, but stolen valor. That’s about all I needed to read.
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I gotta admit...I've never understood the whole "stolen valor" outrage thing...someone dresses up, trying to be like someone that is admired. Okay. So what? Are they trying to get government benefits or something?
 
tawood said:
I gotta admit...I've never understood the whole "stolen valor" outrage thing...someone dresses up, trying to be like someone that is admired. Okay. So what? Are they trying to get government benefits or something?
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Have you ever served?
 
tawood said:
...someone dresses up, trying to be like someone that is admired.
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No, that's not really a good description. Better would be, "someone imposters those who are admired to gain for himself admiration and respect that he hasn't earned."

This is demeaning to those who have earned it, and the resulting uncertainties cause society to doubt the real heroes.

I have never served. But I have several family members who did, two who were wounded in action, and I've spent my professional life in close association with the military. I have a deep and lasting respect plus a great sense of gratitude for those who serve honorably, and I don't like seeing them dishonored by masquerading jackals.
 
Half Fast said:
Some years ago, when I was cave diving regularly, Underwater Speleology magazine occasionally ran a column highlighting the ridiculous things untrained divers did to get themselves drowned in a cave. The column was titled "Beyond Maximum Stupid."

For some reason, this guy made me think of that....
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yXMrGx6.png
 
Half Fast said:
No, that's not really a good description. Better would be, "someone imposters those who are admired to gain for himself admiration and respect that he hasn't earned."

This is demeaning to those who have earned it, and the resulting uncertainties cause society to doubt the real heroes.

I have never served. But I have several family members who did, two who were wounded in action, and I've spent my professional life in close association with the military. I have a deep and lasting respect plus a great sense of gratitude for those who serve honorably, and I don't like seeing them dishonored by masquerading jackals.
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I ran into something similar, unintentionally.

I had to renew my driver's license, they gave me the thermal printer temporary version.

Ten days later, my new license showed up in the mail. In bold letters across the front it said "VETERAN".

My dad is, but I am not. I went back to get a new license, and hoped that nobody asked to see the incorrect version until it got fixed.

I didn't earn that title.
 
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Matthew said:
I didn't earn that title, and neither did this guy.
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To be fair, Bernath was a veteran who served just under 4 years as a photographer in the USN during Vietnam. But he claimed rank and honors he never received.
 
Half Fast said:
To be fair, Bernath was a veteran who served just under 4 years as a photographer in the USN during Vietnam. But he claimed rank and honors he never received.
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Ahh, ok. I will change my comment. I will give him credit for that much.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I'm a veteran and I hope that the next time I renew my license that "veteran" isn't on it. Not because I'm not proud of being a veteran but because I want to choose who knows it.
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I'm not sure how it happened. I asked the DMV lady about it. She said, "Somebody must have just clicked on the wrong box or something." I didn't tell her that she was the same one that processed my license the first time.
 
Matthew said:
I'm not sure how it happened. I asked the DMV lady about it. She said, "Somebody must have just clicked on the wrong box or something." I didn't tell her that she was the same one that processed my license the first time.
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Get her to click the box that says "State Representative" and you'll have ticket immunity whenever the legislature is in session. Or "Diplomat" might work even better.
 
overdrive148 said:
No I'm still only at "really dumb". But I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night!

I read the story attached to that one, and you are right - absolutely jaw dropping amounts of stupid.
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Freakin’ amazing, huh?

There was another where the (untrained in caves) divers knew they should use a guideline, so they chose a spool of monofilament fishing line. Now two seconds of thought will let you realize that such line is specifically designed to be invisible underwater! Their bodies were found within sight of the cave entrance, completely ensnarled in the line.

Lots of stories like that, but all that makes the newspapers is “Divers Drown In Deadly Cave.” Meanwhile trained folks dive caves safely all the time.
 
Half Fast said:
Freakin’ amazing, huh?

There was another where the (untrained in caves) divers knew they should use a guideline, so they chose a spool of monofilament fishing line. Now two seconds of thought will let you realize that such line is specifically designed to be invisible underwater! Their bodies were found within sight of the cave entrance, completely ensnarled in the line.

Lots of stories like that, but all that makes the newspapers is “Divers Drown In Deadly Cave.” Meanwhile trained folks dive caves safely all the time.
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4rVRl3Z.jpg
 
tawood said:
I gotta admit...I've never understood the whole "stolen valor" outrage thing...someone dresses up, trying to be like someone that is admired. Okay. So what? Are they trying to get government benefits or something?
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I don't know what they're hoping to get out of it. I suppose the respect and admiration of others. But if it's based on a lie, I don't know why anyone would want it.

The odd thing in Bernath's case (well, one of the odd things) is that he actually did serve. But he embellished his service, which really makes no sense at all to most veterans. Simply raising one's hand and taking the Oath is an act of extraordinary courage. There's no need to embellish it. Doing so cheapens, not enhances, one's service. It shows that for all Bernath did do for his country, he never grasped the fact that every veteran became a hero the day they were sworn in. Simply being willing to serve, knowing that it may cost a recruit his or her life, is an act of heroism.

For whatever reason, Bernath needed more than that. Maybe he was insecure. But whatever the reason, it rubbed me the wrong way the first time I read about him, which was when he was engaged in his battle against FlightDesign for the alleged deficiencies of their fuel gauges. Even then I wondered if his motivation was that he didn't want to look like a putz who departed with insufficient fuel. I couldn't help think that the crash didn't bother him nearly so much as the fact that it made him look like an idiot, so he decided to try to blame it on the aircraft's manufacturer rather than own up to his own negligence.

Rich
 
RJM62 said:
For whatever reason, Bernath needed more than that. Maybe he was insecure. But whatever the reason, it rubbed me the wrong way the first time I read about him, which was when he was engaged in his battle against FlightDesign for the alleged deficiencies of their fuel gauges. Even then I wondered if his motivation was that he didn't want to look like a putz who departed with insufficient fuel. I couldn't help think that the crash didn't bother him nearly so much as the fact that it made him look like an idiot, so he decided to try to blame it on the aircraft's manufacturer rather than own up to his own negligence.

Rich
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He had a habit of suing people, often repetitively using the same filing. There were motions to have him declared a vexatious litigant to preclude him from clogging up the courts with his filings. I don't think the Flight Design suit was done for any particular reason, he just couldn't help himself. Heck the guy sued a convenience store when they stored a pallet of potting soil on a handicapped spot.
 
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FlySince9 said:
Really? that's sad... says a lot about you...
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What it says about me is, “I don’t get worked up about imposters”, or “losers don’t deserve my time/thoughts” or even “I don’t get angry at the mentally ill”. The fact that you find that sad says something about YOU
 
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Half Fast said:
No, that's not really a good description. Better would be, "someone imposters those who are admired to gain for himself admiration and respect that he hasn't earned."

This is demeaning to those who have earned it, and the resulting uncertainties cause society to doubt the real heroes.

I have never served. But I have several family members who did, two who were wounded in action, and I've spent my professional life in close association with the military. I have a deep and lasting respect plus a great sense of gratitude for those who serve honorably, and I don't like seeing them dishonored by masquerading jackals.
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Ok, but do a search of “stolen valor” on YouTube. The outrage...rage...that these veterans show...dozens upon dozens of videos of veterans going as far as assaulting these guys. In one video, a veteran orders a homeless guy, under threat of harm, to undress on a city street. Do you see much honor/admiration/respect in that? Seems like the dishonor is being shown, for sure...but I question who is doing the dishonoring.
 
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RJM62 said:
The odd thing in Bernath's case (well, one of the odd things) is that he actually did serve. But he embellished his service, which really makes no sense at all to most veterans. Simply raising one's hand and taking the Oath is an act of extraordinary courage. There's no need to embellish it. Doing so cheapens, not enhances, one's service. It shows that for all Bernath did do for his country, he never grasped the fact that every veteran became a hero the day they were sworn in. Simply being willing to serve, knowing that it may cost a recruit his or her life, is an act of heroism.
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**TL;DR warning**

I can tell you there's a lot of internal rift in the military regarding the insistence on the part of some folks in making a distinction between a combat veteran and everybody else. Outside of certain hazardous duty pay during tours of duty where such incentives qualify, the benefits extended to all veterans ( some disability ratings notwithstanding) are not dependent on combat service. This is a good thing imo, as it fulfills the spirit of intent behind the call to Service.

This incenses some within the military ranks however. It's a petty dynamic usually borne out a youthful naiveté of the life opportunity costs of having that "combat T-shirt", coupled with a little bit of intra-military tribalism that seeks to differentiate people within a profession that can admittedly be 99% boredom and 1% moment in your life which could be your last. Perhaps one you never bargained for.

Anthony Swofford makes a pretty transparent exposé of this dynamic with the book Jarhead (most people know it as the movie of the same name), many of the related work he has published and been interviewed on the topic. The anti-climatic nature of military service is certainly a big portion of what fosters this dynamic, and his experience traces that grain to a T.

It is possible the deceased very much felt underwhelmed by the canyon between what his service ended up being and what he envisioned his service would look like when he first joined. This is nothing new. I sleep well at night with my zero hours of combat time. My job is plenty dangerous, and I've buried squadronmates in my present line of duty as recently as last month; several more in the last 12 years of my Service. Constant reminders of the fragility of human life, and the degree to which we are not guaranteed to come home in this dangerous business of ours, even in garrison. So I don't have much time for the "combat vet" and his chip on his shoulder shtick. I didn't join to impress anyone, or to have 10% combat stories for people who aren't gonna come to my funeral anyways.

A lot of people just don't know how to take the uniform off at the end of the day; these people struggle in civilian life. It appears the deceased was one of them.
 
750ft wreckage path from. 2500ft AGL. Sounds like a dynamic disassembly prior to final impact.
 
Stingray Don said:
Interesting that there was no fire.
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No fire, no explosion, no leaking fuel noted in the report. All pieces of the plane found at the crash site. Control-surface continuity confirmed. Where's the interesting info about the scene we were promised?
 
FastEddieB said:
Shows a an "SLSA", indicating it was "factory" built.
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Which is incorrect, but no big surprise there. Reg data is all over the map. His shows nothing for classification or category. Mine shows (correctly) E-LSA, but has the manufacturer wrong.

It is interesting that there's no mention of whether the fuel tank was empty or not, intact or not, fuel soaked ground or not, etc. I guess we'll have to wait for the next report.
 
weilke said:
750ft wreckage path from. 2500ft AGL. Sounds like a dynamic disassembly prior to final impact.
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If so, it seems unlikely they would have been able to confirm continuity of the flight controls.
 
DaleB said:
It is interesting that there's no mention of whether the fuel tank was empty or not, intact or not, fuel soaked ground or not, etc. I guess we'll have to wait for the next report.
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That is kinda key. If the plane broke up in flight, it's possible the gas tank was breached and the fuel scattered over a wide range. Wouldn't expect a concentrated fuel smell.

Being able to verify the control runs with a wreckage path 750 feet long may just mean there was light stuff coming down. Spars may break, cables, pushrods, etc. may keep the components close for the last few seconds of free fall.

Ron Wanttaja
 
wanttaja said:
That is kinda key. If the plane broke up in flight, it's possible the gas tank was breached and the fuel scattered over a wide range. Wouldn't expect a concentrated fuel smell.

Being able to verify the control runs with a wreckage path 750 feet long may just mean there was light stuff coming down. Spars may break, cables, pushrods, etc. may keep the components close for the last few seconds of free fall.

Ron Wanttaja
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They used the term “wreckage path” and not “debris field.” Are those synonymous? I’m thinking the wreckage path could refer to the distance from where he first clipped a tree top to where the plane came to rest, but I don’t necessarily understand the terminology.

750 feet is a long way, but it seems short if it’s from a break-up 2500’ in the air.
 
I’d be shocked beyond belief if it was an in flight breakup. I really would.
 
Would they say this if it was an in-flight breakup?

"On January 22, 2018, about 1214 eastern standard time, a Van's Aircraft Inc. RV-12, N262WS, was destroyed when it collided with terrain...."
 
Half Fast said:
They used the term “wreckage path” and not “debris field.” Are those synonymous? I’m thinking the wreckage path could refer to the distance from where he first clipped a tree top to where the plane came to rest, but I don’t necessarily understand the terminology.

750 feet is a long way, but it seems short if it’s from a break-up 2500’ in the air.
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I suspect this was a comma issue. A true wreckage path of 750ft requires an amount of energy a light sport just does not possess. A shallow impact of a F18 could give you 750ft of bits and pieces, not an RV12.
 
Half Fast said:
Me, too.
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Original reports said that witnesses saw debris above tree line. I wonder if he was going to try a controlled, but dramatic, water or scrub landing , but got hung up in the trees, which caused pieces to rip off.
 
Half Fast said:
They used the term “wreckage path” and not “debris field.” Are those synonymous? I’m thinking the wreckage path could refer to the distance from where he first clipped a tree top to where the plane came to rest, but I don’t necessarily understand the terminology.

750 feet is a long way, but it seems short if it’s from a break-up 2500’ in the air.
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If I remember correctly from my Embry Riddle days, a "debris field" is not synonymous with a "wreckage path". You could have a debris field without much of a wreckage path, as in an inflight break up that spreads debris across a wide area. Or you could have a wreckage path that contains the debris field to a relatively narrow track which might imply a low-angle impact with significant forward momentum. Or, you could have a "smoking hole". Or, some variation of all the above.
 
Not completely sure who everyone is ragging on here. I listened to the tapes and they seemed completely benign. That is until I heard one “mayday”. I’m certain I just missed something because I was likely in the head. Can you point me to a time/place that I missed important info?

Thanx
 
FastEddieB said:
Start at post #1 in this thread, and go from there - post #2, post #3, and so on. By the time you get to post #237 you should be pretty much caught up.

You’re welcome!
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Okay... please reread post #238. Perhaps a bit slower for comprehension.

I listened to an hour of ATC tapes posted and didn’t hear anything worthy. Perhaps I missed it. I asked where the action is on the tape and I’ll go back and listen again.
 
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