- Joined
- Apr 9, 2010
- Messages
- 1,199
- Display Name
Display name:
Llewtrah
This is long but hopefully helpful for some.
For years I’ve sat on the sidelines re electronic ignitions, thinking they wouldn’t add a lot of value for me and my Warrior with the “Arch-Warrior” STC (180hp O360-A4M). But a friend raved about the ElectroAir in his RV, so I did some homework. I knew ElectroAir was donating one to our charity for auction, so I wanted to see if that was worth bidding on. So, full disclosure, I did win the bid and I do feel like I owe them some kind of on-line feedback, so consider that “bias” in my comments. That said, I wouldn’t have bid without doing my homework first.
My primary goal was to improve high-altitude performance, since I do a good amount of XC and occasionally around mountains. “Getting my investment back” via fuel savings and avoiding mag inspections was a bonus – not a big priority. Nobody puts in a glass panel because it will save them money down the road.
Comparing the ElectroAir to the Surefly, while the latter is literally half the cost for the unit and installation, I consistently heard unencouraging comments about its high altitude performance with the spark advance. One installer who does both said many people will start off having the DIP switches set on the Surefly for spark advance but they get occasional burps at altitude, etc. to the point he said many of his clients have gone back to the no-advance settings. For the ElectroAir, that was not currently a problem, per several installers. Bottom line, while I think Surefly is a reliable option, the ElectroAir seemed to better meet my objectives.
Even done by an experienced installer, it takes way more than the 6 to 8 hours ElectroAir says online. My installer hadn’t done a Cherokee before, so there was a bit of a learning curve primarily re where to put the “inside” module (and they’re down to one box in the cabin instead of two). Their biggest challenge is finding room under the dash for the box. Ultimately it went under the back seat, which required a longer harness and a little more install time for panels to come out and go back in. They ended up taking about 25 hours for the install, which was the quote I got from another experienced installer as well. That said, and knock on wood, the unit has worked perfectly from the start. I currently have about 15 hours on it, so not a ton.
I’ve had my Warrior up to 15,000 a few times prior to this, typically in the winter by myself and it does surprisingly well but takes a good while to get there. After install, on an early test flight on a 92 degree day, I got it up to 16,500ft and it was still working well. Density altitude was 18,300. Climb performance for the last several thousand was about 200fpm but steady – way better than before. The engine ran very smoothly throughout. That was by myself with no luggage. I didn’t settle down long enough to see what the TAS in level flight was (shame on me).
On a recent XC I gathered some info at lower altitudes. At 6K, throttle was about ¾ forward, RPMs 2610, MP 23.3, 74%HP (I have an EDM-830). Mag drop on the mag was to 2570 and to 2580 on the EI. I was going 130KTAS on 10.0GPH. At 8K, throttle was roughly the same, 2610, 21.7, 70%, 2560 and 2590, 130KTAS, 8.6GPH, CHTs 384/377/386/381. 10K: full, 2580, 20.2, 65%, 2510 and 2560, 128KTAS, 8.4, 393/383/391/392. (fuel flow calculations were via the 830 and for 10 minutes – not a “spot reading”)
Performance observations:
The benefit didn’t seem to really kick in until 7,000 or so. I could definitely lean back much more than in the past, with no loss of airspeed. In fact, TASs seemed to be consistently 2-3KTAS more for comparable conditions, subjectively.
I had problems in the past keeping CHTs below 400 in cruise and would often need to burn 10.5GPH at 8,000 or so just to keep them down. I was concerned that would be an issue with the EI, since it’s more efficient and could raise them, but I was able to lean to a point where the temps actually declined. That’s a big relief and positive for me.
Bottom line, I’m very happy with the outcome so far. I think it will give me more options for altitude on cross-countries and the CHTs will be lower in most cases. The reduced fuel flow will not only cut costs but should also help prevent plug fouling.
Especially the ElectroAir, I’d say this makes sense for someone with a normally aspirated engine who flies a lot of XC, especially above 7,000ft. It seems to make less sense for a turbo, since the spark advance doesn’t kick in until below, I think, 24”. At present, I don’t believe the Surefly is as good a fit for benefits at higher altitudes.
I’ve had zero problems with missing, radio noise, or other problems they’ve apparently had in the past, knock on wood. Then again, I still only have 15 hours on it.
For years I’ve sat on the sidelines re electronic ignitions, thinking they wouldn’t add a lot of value for me and my Warrior with the “Arch-Warrior” STC (180hp O360-A4M). But a friend raved about the ElectroAir in his RV, so I did some homework. I knew ElectroAir was donating one to our charity for auction, so I wanted to see if that was worth bidding on. So, full disclosure, I did win the bid and I do feel like I owe them some kind of on-line feedback, so consider that “bias” in my comments. That said, I wouldn’t have bid without doing my homework first.
My primary goal was to improve high-altitude performance, since I do a good amount of XC and occasionally around mountains. “Getting my investment back” via fuel savings and avoiding mag inspections was a bonus – not a big priority. Nobody puts in a glass panel because it will save them money down the road.
Comparing the ElectroAir to the Surefly, while the latter is literally half the cost for the unit and installation, I consistently heard unencouraging comments about its high altitude performance with the spark advance. One installer who does both said many people will start off having the DIP switches set on the Surefly for spark advance but they get occasional burps at altitude, etc. to the point he said many of his clients have gone back to the no-advance settings. For the ElectroAir, that was not currently a problem, per several installers. Bottom line, while I think Surefly is a reliable option, the ElectroAir seemed to better meet my objectives.
Even done by an experienced installer, it takes way more than the 6 to 8 hours ElectroAir says online. My installer hadn’t done a Cherokee before, so there was a bit of a learning curve primarily re where to put the “inside” module (and they’re down to one box in the cabin instead of two). Their biggest challenge is finding room under the dash for the box. Ultimately it went under the back seat, which required a longer harness and a little more install time for panels to come out and go back in. They ended up taking about 25 hours for the install, which was the quote I got from another experienced installer as well. That said, and knock on wood, the unit has worked perfectly from the start. I currently have about 15 hours on it, so not a ton.
I’ve had my Warrior up to 15,000 a few times prior to this, typically in the winter by myself and it does surprisingly well but takes a good while to get there. After install, on an early test flight on a 92 degree day, I got it up to 16,500ft and it was still working well. Density altitude was 18,300. Climb performance for the last several thousand was about 200fpm but steady – way better than before. The engine ran very smoothly throughout. That was by myself with no luggage. I didn’t settle down long enough to see what the TAS in level flight was (shame on me).
On a recent XC I gathered some info at lower altitudes. At 6K, throttle was about ¾ forward, RPMs 2610, MP 23.3, 74%HP (I have an EDM-830). Mag drop on the mag was to 2570 and to 2580 on the EI. I was going 130KTAS on 10.0GPH. At 8K, throttle was roughly the same, 2610, 21.7, 70%, 2560 and 2590, 130KTAS, 8.6GPH, CHTs 384/377/386/381. 10K: full, 2580, 20.2, 65%, 2510 and 2560, 128KTAS, 8.4, 393/383/391/392. (fuel flow calculations were via the 830 and for 10 minutes – not a “spot reading”)
Performance observations:
The benefit didn’t seem to really kick in until 7,000 or so. I could definitely lean back much more than in the past, with no loss of airspeed. In fact, TASs seemed to be consistently 2-3KTAS more for comparable conditions, subjectively.
I had problems in the past keeping CHTs below 400 in cruise and would often need to burn 10.5GPH at 8,000 or so just to keep them down. I was concerned that would be an issue with the EI, since it’s more efficient and could raise them, but I was able to lean to a point where the temps actually declined. That’s a big relief and positive for me.
Bottom line, I’m very happy with the outcome so far. I think it will give me more options for altitude on cross-countries and the CHTs will be lower in most cases. The reduced fuel flow will not only cut costs but should also help prevent plug fouling.
Especially the ElectroAir, I’d say this makes sense for someone with a normally aspirated engine who flies a lot of XC, especially above 7,000ft. It seems to make less sense for a turbo, since the spark advance doesn’t kick in until below, I think, 24”. At present, I don’t believe the Surefly is as good a fit for benefits at higher altitudes.
I’ve had zero problems with missing, radio noise, or other problems they’ve apparently had in the past, knock on wood. Then again, I still only have 15 hours on it.
