Piper 235 level flight and stall light question

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muleywannabe

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Cherokee235
We were flying last night and the aircraft wanted to have a slight right aileron attitude. It would fly wings level but you had to use a slight left yoke to keep it straight. i assume this is a rigging issue??

second question, the stall light quit on us, are the stall light bulbs generally easy to find? where would I find one? assuming thats the issue and not a wiring issue.

thanks
 
You have the 4 tanks? Unbalanced fuel load.
Keep the tip tanks FULL and use them absolutely last, 15 minutes a side.
 
muleywannabe said:
We were flying last night and the aircraft wanted to have a slight right aileron attitude. It would fly wings level but you had to use a slight left yoke to keep it straight. i assume this is a rigging issue??
Click to expand...

Don't shoot me for mentioning this, but given the fuel system complexity on that plane, are you sure the fuel was balanced?

second question, the stall light quit on us, are the stall light bulbs generally easy to find? where would I find one? assuming thats the issue and not a wiring issue.
Click to expand...

Aircraft Spruce, among others.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/gereplacement.php?clickkey=10337
 
mikea said:
You have the 4 tanks? Unbalanced fuel load.
Keep the tip tanks FULL and use them absolutely last, 15 minutes a side.
Click to expand...

Didn't think of that, but I'll run a tip dry and have the other full and it won't do what he's experiencing...
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Don't shoot me for mentioning this, but given the fuel system complexity on that plane, are you sure the fuel was balanced?



Aircraft Spruce, among others.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/gereplacement.php?clickkey=10337
Click to expand...


you know I never thought of that. We switched the main tanks but did not mess with the wing tips. I know one wing tip has 3 gallons and the other probably has between 6 and 7. We dont use the tip tanks for practice. That very well could be the culprit.

its just a slight left yoke is all. its not substantial by any means.
 
Do you have ground adjustable trim tabs?

I do on my ailerons. I had the same problem and made an adjustment and now it only rolls when I tell it to or if the tanks get out of balance.
 
Seriously I've had maybe 3 gallons in one tip and full on the other, it didn't make any issue in my plane.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Seriously I've had maybe 3 gallons in one tip and full on the other, it didn't make any issue in my plane.
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so definitely a rigging issue or perhaps a trim tab issue? its very minor but I want it right for long flights, I can sit back and enjoy the scenery.
 
muleywannabe said:
so definitely a rigging issue or perhaps a trim tab issue? its very minor but I want it right for long flights, I can sit back and enjoy the scenery.
Click to expand...


Well everyone else thinks your problem is your fuel. They are probably right but I seriously have zero issues with the way I do my fuel. I could be correcting for it without knowing it but it flys really smooth so I'd guess it's your rigging. Your trim doesn't have anything to do with ailerons.
 
muleywannabe said:
so definitely a rigging issue or perhaps a trim tab issue? its very minor but I want it right for long flights, I can sit back and enjoy the scenery.
Click to expand...

So go fly it for awhile when you KNOW the fuel is balanced and see what it is.
 
Try adjusting the trim tab (if you have ground adjustible tabs on your ailerons).

IMPORTANT:
The trim tabs are not an extension of the control surface.
Meaning the trim tab is designed to give the control surface opposite deflection.

Lets take the rudder for example because it will make the discussion simpler.
Lets say the plane is yawing to the right.

Do not bend the tab to the left to compensate.
bending it to the left will cause the rudder to deflect more to the right exacerbating the yaw.

Bend the tab in the direction of the error to produce opposite control deflection to offset the error.

Also a little goes a long way. Fractions of an inch at a time. Doesn't seem like much but the tab is not turning the plane, it is merely deflecting a control surface which is turning the plane.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Well everyone else thinks your problem is your fuel. They are probably right but I seriously have zero issues with the way I do my fuel. I could be correcting for it without knowing it but it flys really smooth so I'd guess it's your rigging. Your trim doesn't have anything to do with ailerons.
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great info! Thank you. I will have my A&P take a look at it.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Well, pitch trim definitely does not. But if it has adjustable aileron tabs, or ground adjustable tabs . . .
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I only have pitch trim and the nose wheel trim. I wasn't aware the 235 had aileron trim. But of course if his doe, then it's a good chance that's his issue.
 
So your plane has a tendency to roll right.
slightly bend the right aileron trim tab up to force that aileron down a bit more which will be the equivalent of applying left yoke input.
 
Just for reference, not aileron trim like your elevator has but an actual tab on the aileron that you bend by hand.

atrim.jpg
 
Well, I'm going to throw something else into the mix.

Is the turn coordinator properly installed? Was the plane level laterally when it was? I'm asking because I've found many that weren't and when the pilot was keeping the ball centered the airplane appeared to be flying out of rig.

The fix was simpler than bending trim tabs.
 
Norman said:
Well, I'm going to throw something else into the mix.

Is the turn coordinator properly installed? Was the plane level laterally when it was? I'm asking because I've found many that weren't and when the pilot was keeping the ball centered the airplane appeared to be flying out of rig.

The fix was simpler than bending trim tabs.
Click to expand...

as far as sitting level on the ground surface, yes the turn coord. is level, wings level.

here is a pic of what I have for trimming in the aircraft. no clue what it does, I am sure my CFI knows, I am just trying to figure it out.
 

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muleywannabe said:
as far as sitting level on the ground surface, yes the turn coord. is level, wings level.

here is a pic of what I have for trimming in the aircraft. no clue what it does, I am sure my CFI knows, I am just trying to figure it out.
Click to expand...

Rudder Trim
 
muleywannabe said:
as far as sitting level on the ground surface, yes the turn coord. is level, wings level.

here is a pic of what I have for trimming in the aircraft. no clue what it does, I am sure my CFI knows, I am just trying to figure it out.
Click to expand...

Was it just eyeballed level or was it checked with a bubble level? It can make a difference.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I would win. :D

But seriously, what purpose would a trim system on the nose wheel serve?
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Greg - remember that the Piper rudder trim is just a displacement applied to the rudder linkage so it does affect the nose wheel

You are correct of course that it is rudder trim but it does affect the nose wheel since the rudder linkage is also linked to the nose wheel.

We all can wonder about why a CFI would mislead a student like that but we all know that CFIs do crazy things. My CFI said to just leave rudder trim alone instead of saying to center the ball then twist the knob to relieve pressure. At least he didn't try to tell me something totally wrong.
 
Greg was on the right track when this thread started. My 235 will fly in circles with a 15 gallon imbalance and a crosswind. I change tanks to trim
it out when the ball isn't centered.
 
Ark235B said:
Greg was on the right track when this thread started. My 235 will fly in circles with a 15 gallon imbalance and a crosswind. I change tanks to trim
it out when the ball isn't centered.
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thats interesting info. I appreciate all the talk about this subject.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Didn't think of that, but I'll run a tip dry and have the other full and it won't do what he's experiencing...
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I did that once - on dual XC with a CFI. The tip tank fuel drain was dripping so he/we had the brilliant idea of emptying that tank. Not never again. My wrist still hurts from having the carry the heavy wing. Landing was exciting.

Per my usual, I put in aileron trim and never really needed it because I don't from with unbalanced fuel.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I would win. :D

But seriously, what purpose would a trim system on the nose wheel serve?
Click to expand...

Well, it would help keep the rudder centered, which it does. :lol:

On mine the rudder will stick a bit off center to where I have to tap with my toes to straighten out the ball. It's a worse problem when the wheel pants are off. The fin on the nose wheel pant help keeping the wheel pointing into the slipstream.
 
mikea said:
Well, it would help keep the rudder centered, which it does. :lol:

On mine the rudder will stick a bit off center to where I have to tap with my toes to straighten out the ball. It's a worse problem when the wheel pants are off. The fin on the nose wheel pant help keeping the wheel pointing into the slipstream.
Click to expand...

I was always under the impression that one could not fly with the nosewheel fairing removed on those airplanes. I guess I was wrong all this time. :yesnod:
 
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