Piper 235 level flight and stall light question

BillTIZ said:
Commonly referred to as rudder trim?
Click to expand...

It probably is, but it's not labeled as such in my plane and I learned about it in August 2012 as nose trim, haven't used it yet.

You posted the same thing as 3 others, just to point it out again, feel good?
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Seriously I've had maybe 3 gallons in one tip and full on the other, it didn't make any issue in my plane.
Click to expand...

Just another data point: Our Cherokee 235 was VERY sensitive to fuel balance. If the tips were out of balance, the plane pulled in a pronounced way toward the fuller tank.

We switched the tips every 15 minutes. Problem solved.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Just another data point: Our Cherokee 235 was VERY sensitive to fuel balance. If the tips were out of balance, the plane pulled in a pronounced way toward the fuller tank.

We switched the tips every 15 minutes. Problem solved.
Click to expand...

Pretty weird, maybe there's a sensation I'm not feeling? Bc the only input I usually need during cruise is to keep the nose down...
 
Flaps (even in the retracted state) can get out of synch a bit on Cherokees, and conversely, flaps can be adjusted slightly to counter a roll tendency.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I was always under the impression that one could not fly with the nosewheel fairing removed on those airplanes. I guess I was wrong all this time. :yesnod:
Click to expand...

Course. I'm just saying that the rudder tends to stick off center more with the nose fairing removed.
 
Last edited:
Jhernandez04 said:
Pretty weird, maybe there's a sensation I'm not feeling? Bc the only input I usually need during cruise is to keep the nose down...
Click to expand...

Sensation? Drain one tip tank and try flying it.
The "sensation" is more like "NO! I DO NOT WANT TO BANK IN THAT DIRECTION!"

Level flight through to landing requires that the yoke be twisted 30 degrees toward the empty tip tank.
 
Last edited:
mikea said:
Sensation? Drain one tip tank and try flying it.
The "sensation" is more like "NO! I DO NOT WANT TO BANK IN THAT DIRECTION!"
Click to expand...


Well that's exactly what I'm saying, I've flown with an empty wing tip and haven't felt it try to bank.... that's why it's weird that it's being described as such. Maybe I'm not paying enough attention, but as big a deal as it seems.... you'd think I'd notice.
 
JimNtexas said:
Flaps (even in the retracted state) can get out of synch a bit on Cherokees, and conversely, flaps can be adjusted slightly to counter a roll tendency.
Click to expand...

Yep, it can be a pretty big effect. My Dad thought our Cherokee 6 had a heavy wing. I finally borrowed a flap rigging tool and found the right flap hanging 1/4 inch lower than the left one. Adjusted it and, viola! no heavy wing.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Well that's exactly what I'm saying, I've flown with an empty wing tip and haven't felt it try to bank.... that's why it's weird that it's being described as such. Maybe I'm not paying enough attention, but as big a deal as it seems.... you'd think I'd notice.
Click to expand...

It must be your huge muscles.

More than a 1/2 hour imbalance in my Cherokee 6 would make my arm start to hurt.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I was always under the impression that one could not fly with the nosewheel fairing removed on those airplanes. I guess I was wrong all this time. :yesnod:
Click to expand...

I haven't had the wheelpants, including the nosewheel, on my cherokee for more than 10 years....with them on, it's almost impossible to check the tires for air, add more air.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
I only have pitch trim and the nose wheel trim. I wasn't aware the 235 had aileron trim. But of course if his doe, then it's a good chance that's his issue.
Click to expand...

There may or may not be aileron trim control but...the ailerons may be out of alignment. This is an easy fix for a shop or A&P that understands rigging on cherokees.
 
muleywannabe said:
I am going to go fly tonight or for sure this weekend, I will fill up the tip tanks and see what happens.
Click to expand...

Remember - if you're the only one in the airplane, the weight will tend to the [fill in the seat location] side. I notice this with my cherokee. Full tanks, two of us (similar size) in the front so I could demonstrate the slight but noticeable trend in one direction. Trip to the shop to check the rigging & aileron settings, life is much better.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Just for reference, not aileron trim like your elevator has but an actual tab on the aileron that you bend by hand.

atrim.jpg
Click to expand...

Not all cherokees have a trim tab like that. In fact I've only seen them on cessnas.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Apparently it controls the rudder which is CONNECTED to the NOSE WHEEL.
Click to expand...

The rudder trim knob connects to the rudder pedals which are connected to both the rudder and the nose wheel. As (Greg?) pointed out, center the ball (using the rudder pedals) then set the rudder trim knob. You'll notice that the pedals are no longer "even" with each other. One is closer to the floor, that's the one you pushed on to center the ball.

If you have a copy of the Piper Parts manual (PM me if you don't have one, I'll send it to you) and look for the Rudder Trim mechanism and how it connects to the pedals, nose wheel and rudder.
 
Last edited:
murphey said:
The rudder trim knob connects to the rudder pedals which are connected to both the rudder and the nose wheel. As (Greg?) pointed out, center the ball (using the rudder pedals) then set the rudder trim knob. You'll notice that the pedals are no longer "even" with each other. One is closer to the floor, that's the one you pushed on to center the ball.

If you have a copy of the Piper Parts manual (PM me if you don't have one, I'll send it to you) and look for the Rudder Trim mechanism and how it connects to the pedals, nose wheel and rudder.
Click to expand...

ME! ME! ME! I was thinking this morning that a) I have never gotten an answer on how the rudder trim works and how to set it, and b) I'd like to see the diagram of how it connects.

HOW do you set the rudder trim knob? My guess was with enough tension the rudder pedals stay where you leave them.

When I first got the plane and was buying every goodie I could at Oshkosh, I got the Aero-Trim electric aileron trim. http://www.aerotriminc.com/id2.html
Surprised they're still in business. Must be the Perfessor's kids.
 
mikea said:
HOW do you set the rudder trim knob? My guess was with enough tension the rudder pedals stay where you leave them.
Click to expand...

Center the ball then turn the knob left/right (as appropriate) to relieve the control pressure. You'll feel the resistance to turning the knob build when getting close to the correct point. Ball should not move when feet removed from rudder pedal.

Rudder trim is generally set twice on every flight - initial climb and then level/cruise. Set pitch trim then set rudder trim, easy-peasy. I generally don't mess with rudder trim in the pattern even though pitch trim is changing.
 
*Update*

Last night we flew again. The tanks were completely full with the exception of the tip tanks. we burned off more on the right side tank this time to see if it helped some in the leaning aspect. It did! it flew level and comfortable, it was nice. no fighting a left yoke control. next time I will fill the tip tanks and see how smooth it will really fly now.

It will be a week before I fly again though, which sucks!
 
muleywannabe said:
*Update*

Last night we flew again. The tanks were completely full with the exception of the tip tanks. we burned off more on the right side tank this time to see if it helped some in the leaning aspect. It did! it flew level and comfortable, it was nice. no fighting a left yoke control. next time I will fill the tip tanks and see how smooth it will really fly now.

It will be a week before I fly again though, which sucks!
Click to expand...

Keep the tip tanks full (ALWAYS!) and use them last - after you've used the mains.

The mass out there helps with lateral stability as long as it's even. We've also had discussions that it once taught that the load is necessary for structural reasons but Piper would not confirm that.

From a full 84 gallon fuel load - use R-L mains for 30 minutes a cycle until you've switched to each 2 times. (@15 GPH = ~15+ gallons from each) Then switch the tips starting with the tank opposite the main you used for take-off. 15 minutes on each tip tank until you've to each switched 3 times.

Then it's time to land.

You'll still have one or two hours of fuel left. Don't play around trying to figure where it is.
 
mikea said:
Keep the tip tanks full (ALWAYS!) and use them last - after you've used the mains.

The mass out there helps with lateral stability as long as it's even. We've also had discussions that it once taught that the load is necessary for structural reasons but Piper would not confirm that.

From a full 84 gallon fuel load - use R-L mains for 30 minutes a cycle until you've switched to each 2 times. (@15 GPH = ~15+ gallons from each) Then switch the tips starting with the tank opposite the main you used for take-off. 15 minutes on each tip tank until you've to each switched 3 times.

Then it's time to land.

You'll still have one or two hours of fuel left. Don't play around trying to figure where it is.
Click to expand...

Excellent advice. This is exactly how we flew the Pathfinder for 12 years, with good results.

One side benefit -- with 84 gallons on board, the 235 is very stable. Turbulence is lessened, and it has the directional stability of a freight train.
 
Pipers typically have a ruder trim. That is the knob in your picture. Ruder trim will pick up a low wing. All the ruder trim does is apply a spring bias to the ruder pedals. It isn't aileron trim but has the same effect. It can be used to compensate for fuel imbalance. Some may unconsciously add ruder to keep the coordinated feel when fuel is imbalanced.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top