Pinch Hitter Pilot Courses

azpilot

azpilot

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azpilot
My wife came flying with me for the first time this last Saturday (In a C172). After we were home safe and sound on the ground, she asked me, "So, what should I have done if you passed out?" I realized that besides not knowing how to fly the airplane, she didn't know how to work the radios. She has no idea what a transponder even is. It got me thinking a little bit, what are the most crucial things for a passenger to know in the event that a pilot become incapacitated.

These were the conclusions I came to:

1) Make sure the passenger knows how to change the frequency on the radio.
2) Make sure they have 121.5 MHz memorized.
3) Show them how to enter 7700 in the transponder.

Beyond any real training of how to fly the airplane, I think that is the best you could do. It would give the passenger the ability to (hopefully) get in touch with someone that could help them (radios). It would also allow them to be identified (squawk code).

Any other ideas on the most important knowledge that could be shared in less than 5 minutes?

Of course, the "Pinch Hitter" courses I have seen advertised would probably be the best way to go.
 
Get them some lessons in the right seat with an instructor.

I don't think any laminated cards or information is going to substitute for hands on experience when the panic of I just lost my spouse combines with I am essentially alone in a plane.

In the mean time give her some stick time and a few "jobs" when you fly.
Talk through what you are doing out loud so certain things get tied together.

For example, I tend to note audibly "Full Flaps" "80 knots" on final.

But in reality, hands on stick time will be most beneficial IMO.
 
In a Cirrus, you can always just pull the 'big red handle' right? :goofy:

I'll just add that I completely agree with you about actual time flying would be the most beneficial. However, since I earned my ticket in July, I have been taking up lots of different family members. For each of them, this has been their first time in a small GA aircraft. I am trying to think of what would be the best thing to tell someone that has never been in a GA aircraft before.

P.S. I am going to work on the 'two hands on the yoke' problem.
 
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meh, fuhgedabout the transponder for now. have her fly the plane a coupl'a times...let her do turns and climbs and whatnot. she'll think she's having fun but really she'll be learning the basics of how to fly the plane. I have every right seat pax do a little flying for that reason (and they don't even know the real reason). also show her the lil PTT button and how to push it and say "help". then eventually give her tasks like changing frequencies and squawks. I also tell all my female passengers that really the safest thing to do is for them to fly topless.
 
The formal (NAFI, etc...) pinchhitter courses do a little bit of takeoff and landing in addition to how to call for help.

My (at that point future) wife was afraid to fly (even commercially). On the way out to Oshkosh she was like "I should take a pinch hitter course." By the time we left to come back it was "Teach me to navigate so I have something to do on the way home" followed by "I'm calling up the woman who runs the flying club and starting on my Private."
 
Show her how the airplane can fly perfectly well with no control inputs at all (short term, of course). The intent is to avoid the "I have to do something, and right now!!" and the finger-impressions-in-the yoke syndromes. If she can keep the wings level with light rudder pressure she can devote time to radios, etc.

Many, many, non-pilot wives have landed successfully when their spouses became unresponsive. Gotta stay cool, because losing control of yourself presages loss of control of the airplane.

Bob Gardner
 
flyingron said:
The formal (NAFI, etc...) pinchhitter courses do a little bit of takeoff and landing in addition to how to call for help.

My (at that point future) wife was afraid to fly (even commercially). On the way out to Oshkosh she was like "I should take a pinch hitter course." By the time we left to come back it was "Teach me to navigate so I have something to do on the way home" followed by "I'm calling up the woman who runs the flying club and starting on my Private."
Click to expand...

That is awesome! I had my wife fly for a bit on Saturday. She did a great job of holding altitude. The skies were clear and visibility was 50+ miles. She kept the nose pointed at a landmark way off in the distance. It was fantastic.

When we were all done, I asked her if it made her want to learn to fly. I was hoping the answer was yes. Instead, she said, "No, it made me want to learn to ride a motorcycle."

W T F :dunno::no: :eek: :nono:
 
bobmrg said:
Show her how the airplane can fly perfectly well with no control inputs at all (short term, of course). The intent is to avoid the "I have to do something, and right now!!" and the finger-impressions-in-the yoke syndromes.
Click to expand...

Absolutely true. :yes:

Many pilots underestimate this fact. I think it is because it is so natural to us that we take it for granted and don't even think about it.

And with airplanes equipped with an autopilot, teaching the basics of how to switch to and adjust HDG etc helps too. And how to disconnect the A/P completely once the passenger gets to the airport and is ready to descend and land.

And to end with a (bad) joke: "I could never make myself to bring my wife to a pinch hitter course. I couldn't decide whether to pinch or hit 'er".
(hey, y'all brought this onto yourselves by inventing such an illogical and useless expression :D )
 
Every time my wife and I fly I try to give her another piece of the puzzle. She dials in radio freqs, changes destinations on the GPS, and I have her talk to ATC sometimes. Sometimes I'll announce "oops, Ive just passed out" and she will engage the autopilot while she talks thru the other things she can be doing. Then I have her disengage the AP and fly.

Good fun until we can get her an official course set up.
 
azpilot said:
In a Cirrus, you can always just pull the 'big red handle' right? :goofy:

I'll just add that I completely agree with you about actual time flying would be the most beneficial. However, since I earned my ticket in July, I have been taking up lots of different family members. For each of them, this has been their first time in a small GA aircraft. I am trying to think of what would be the best thing to tell someone that has never been in a GA aircraft before.

P.S. I am going to work on the 'two hands on the yoke' problem.
Click to expand...


Ah, gotcha.
#1. Push this button and ask for help.
#2. dial 121.5 , push this button and ask for help.
 
What would your wife do if she were in the passenger seat and you were driving at speed on a busy interstate freeway when you passed out?

Does 6PC have a red handle in his family car?
 
MikeTuggle said:
I thought "they" were no longer monitoring 121.5...
Click to expand...

They who? Aliens? CORPAS-SARSAT isn't listening for ELTs on 121.5 anymore but ATC, FSS, some military installations, and lots of other people are listening in there.
 
As a "mature" airplane driver (67) it had been in the back of my mind that I may have a medical issue while flying with my wife who to be honest is by my side 99% of the time I'm out flying, so I had her sign up for a Pinch Hitter course and I can say it's probably the one thing that has made her feel a whole lot more comfortable in the plane. She helps my workload anyway by dialing in radio freqs as we move through different areas, and I have her take the controls on a regular basis just so she keeps a feel for the plane. Hopefully she will never need to take over as PIC but at least we should have a reasonable chance of a good outcome if it does come to that,

I would certainly endorse the Pinch Hitter course
 
MikeTuggle said:
I thought "they" were no longer monitoring 121.5...
Click to expand...

My mistake...

There was a lot of forum and article traffic back in 2014 ... "
The FCC says it wants to... phase out 121.5 MHz emergency locator transmitters...​
"

I guess they still monitor voice on 121.5.
 
azpilot said:
In a Cirrus, you can always just pull the 'big red handle' right? :goofy:
Click to expand...

Yep.. the newer ones even have a blue button that immediately tells the AP to go straight and level. So for non-pilots, the landing is fairly simple. Push the button, pull the mixture to cut off, pull the big red handle.
 
azpilot said:
My wife came flying with me for the first time this last Saturday (In a C172). After we were home safe and sound on the ground, she asked me, "So, what should I have done if you passed out?" I realized that besides not knowing how to fly the airplane, she didn't know how to work the radios. She has no idea what a transponder even is. It got me thinking a little bit, what are the most crucial things for a passenger to know in the event that a pilot become incapacitated.

These were the conclusions I came to:

1) Make sure the passenger knows how to change the frequency on the radio.
2) Make sure they have 121.5 MHz memorized.
3) Show them how to enter 7700 in the transponder.

Beyond any real training of how to fly the airplane, I think that is the best you could do. It would give the passenger the ability to (hopefully) get in touch with someone that could help them (radios). It would also allow them to be identified (squawk code).

Any other ideas on the most important knowledge that could be shared in less than 5 minutes?

Of course, the "Pinch Hitter" courses I have seen advertised would probably be the best way to go.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't bother with any of that, best not to have her final screams immortalized on the Internet via liveatc

If you're serious, get her setup with a CFI and have her trained and soloed in your plane, the radio and transponder and everything is just fluff, maybe squawk 7700, FLY THE PLANE, and that's that, if you kick it she'll have enough going on just getting the plane on the ground.
 
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I've also experienced giving my GF 1 lesson toward pinch hitting in the right seat. She's now a Solo student toward the PPL.

To start with, have your wife read the checklist, you answer "on, off, green" and all that. The first couple times go slow while you explain what it means, but eventually she's able to identify the item as you touch it and reply.

Then for the radios, start with how to tune and switch, then progress to she switches, and then she talks.

With all that done, play with the stick (or yoke I guess :( ) power, etc. She'll get comfortable with how it all works and where things are.

Last step, pay a CFII to teach her to land from the right seat while you're in the back seat. She shouldn't need to know how to take-off since you shouldn't incapacitated at that point.

When all that's done, she'll ask for the PPL training and be WAY ahead of the average starter student.
 
James331 said:
If you're serious, get her set[ ]up with a CFI and have her trained and soloed in your plane[. T]he radio and transponder and everything is just fluff, maybe squawk 7700, FLY THE PLANE, and that's that, if you kick it she'll have enough going on just getting the plane on the ground.
Click to expand...

I strongly disagree. Knowing how to use the radio is by far the most important part. Novices have been coached by ATC to make survivable landings after a pilot has been incapacitated. Prior flight experience isn't particularly helpful unless it includes many hours of instruction, as you proposed, which is not practical for most passengers.
 
acrophile said:
I strongly disagree. Knowing how to use the radio is by far the most important part. Novices have been coached by ATC to make survivable landings after a pilot has been incapacitated. Prior flight experience isn't particularly helpful unless it includes many hours of instruction, as you proposed, which is not practical for most passengers.
Click to expand...

I think for a right seater, an hour or two with a CFI is plenty, followed by regularly talking YOUR landings to reinforce, and occasionally let her fly it "to the fence" using the same voicing of steps.

I'm a fraidy-cat so I won't let a non-pilot land my plane from the right seat while I'm there, but with a CFI on the left it's all gold.
 
acrophile said:
I strongly disagree. Knowing how to use the radio is by far the most important part. Novices have been coached by ATC to make survivable landings after a pilot has been incapacitated. Prior flight experience isn't particularly helpful unless it includes many hours of instruction, as you proposed, which is not practical for most passengers.
Click to expand...

As a CFI, you can jibber jabber and try to get all that flight training over the radio as you watch your loved one in the final throughs of death, sounds like a great place to learn how to fly :rolleyes2:

I'd rather just have my significant other log 10-15hrs and solo the plane, take some of the fear out of that horrible moment, then if needed she can fly the damn thing down and land it in a field, airport, road, whatever, for all I care she can turn the damn radios off and focus on flying.

It's what she does with the stick and throttle which will dictate her fate, that's where I train, that's where she will preform.
 
dell30rb said:
Yep.. the newer ones even have a blue button that immediately tells the AP to go straight and level. So for non-pilots, the landing is fairly simple. Push the button, pull the mixture to cut off, pull the big red handle.
Click to expand...
So easy a caveman can do it!
 
Who cares what your loved one says on the radio if it gives them a better chance of surviving?

Many, many, years ago I was involved in teaching a pinch-hitter course. I think the ground portion was done over a weekend and definitely involved learning to use the radios. I taught two people in their family airplanes. I believe it was two lessons each. One was in a C-210, and the other in an C-182. They could be talked to a landing, more or less. The landings would have been easily survivable.
 
Sooo

You guys are saying in case if pilot incapacitation, it's better to teach your loved on how to TALK on the radio vs FLY the airplane?

As a pilot and instructor that makes zero sense to me
 
James331 said:
Sooo

You guys are saying in case if pilot incapacitation, it's better to teach your loved on how to TALK on the radio vs FLY the airplane?

As a pilot and instructor that makes zero sense to me
Click to expand...
I think what people are saying is that it's best to do both, however you can't teach all your passengers how to land.
 
OK, Perhaps I didn't phrase my question well from the beginning. Please understand, this was my wife's FIRST TIME FLYING. While we were driving home she asked me, what should I have done if you passed out.

I recently earned my PPL back in July. Since then, I have taken almost a dozen people on their FIRST flight in a GA aircraft. The question isn't mean to be, "what should I teach my wife who comes flying with me all the time?", but rather, the question is:

What information can I give someone, who has NEVER flown in an airplane, in two minutes or less, as part of a pre-flight passenger briefing that will give them the best chances of surviving should I become incapacitated while flying?

Of course it would best for them to know how to fly the plane, or have soloed, and have a basic understandings of how radios work. That is all great, but it isn't going to happen on their very first flight.

My line of thinking, for someone on their VERY FIRST FLIGHT, is to show them:
1) How the push-to-talk works.
2) Show them how you change frequencies on the radio.
3) Make sure they know that 121.5 is the station to talk on in case of an emergency
4) Make sure they understand that the airplane is very stable, and will mostly fly itself. Less is more.
5) Help them understand that if something does happen, they need to talk to someone on 121.5 that will hopefully help them get on the ground and be able to walk away from the airplane.

Again, the question is not, what do I teach my wife over the next 20 times we go flying, but rather, what do I tell someone on their FIRST flight.

I'll just add that I have really appreciated all the comments about things to teach my wife as we do continue to go flying. We talked about it a bit more last night, and she is kind of excited to try flying the plane a little bit more, and learning how some of the avionics work. As she flies with me more, I definitely plan to show her more and more of all of that stuff.
 
My girlfriend is with me every time I fly (pretty much) she really enjoys it. I have mentioned a pinch hitter course to her but up until recently, she has been reluctant... She doesn't even like to handle the controls when we are together... I think I finally convinced her it would be a good idea. Hopefully I can get something arranged soon, while she is still agreeable...
 
The most important thing you can teach them in 2 minutes or less is how to properly fasten their seatbelt/shoulder harness. A very first timer is not going to remember much if things go wrong.
 
1. Pull this knob (throttle) to go down.
2. This is the trim wheel. Forward is faster, back is slower. Adjust to make this dial (airspeed) 60.
3. Aim for a field

All it needs to be is a survivable crash.
 
JoeFromKS said:
1. Pull this knob (throttle) to go down.
2. This is the trim wheel. Forward is faster, back is slower. Adjust to make this dial (airspeed) 60.
3. Aim for a field

All it needs to be is a survivable crash.
Click to expand...

I like this. Thanks for sharing.
 
James331 said:
You guys are saying in case if pilot incapacitation, it's better to teach your loved on how to TALK on the radio vs FLY the airplane?
Click to expand...

It's better to make your passenger a full-fledged pilot. But most passengers have no interest in doing that.

Having a CFI teach passengers how to land is good, but even that takes hours of instruction, and most passengers don't want to do that either.

Teaching passengers to use the radio takes just a couple of minutes, and passengers have in fact been talked through survivable landings following pilot incapacitation.

So that's what passenger instruction should start with. If a passenger wants to go even further, then great.
 
The pinch hitter course is a good idea. In my case, my wife enjoyed the training so much she just went ahead and earned her PPL. Now she works the radios when we fly IFR. You never know...

Cheers.
 
MikeTuggle said:
I thought "they" were no longer monitoring 121.5...
Click to expand...


I'm part of the "they" and yes we do. All ATC facilities monitor guard but I will admit, when I get the several "Southwest four twenty, you up on guard?" "Yeah, what's up?" "Center is looking for you on one three seven point three five." calls, or the guy jabbering away in Spanish, I un-monitor it for a while.
 
MikeTuggle said:
My mistake...

There was a lot of forum and article traffic back in 2014 ... "
The FCC says it wants to... phase out 121.5 MHz emergency locator transmitters...​
"

I guess they still monitor voice on 121.5.
Click to expand...

The FCC backed off on requiring existing 121.5 ELTs to be taken out of service, and even if they hadn't, 406 MHz ELTs are required to incorporate a low-power 121.5 homing beacon. That's what we use when we're sent out to do direction-finding.

And in addition to what others have said, pilots are required by NOTAM to monitor 121.5 if able.
 
azpilot said:
My wife came flying with me for the first time this last Saturday (In a C172). After we were home safe and sound on the ground, she asked me, "So, what should I have done if you passed out?" I realized that besides not knowing how to fly the airplane, she didn't know how to work the radios. She has no idea what a transponder even is. It got me thinking a little bit, what are the most crucial things for a passenger to know in the event that a pilot become incapacitated.

These were the conclusions I came to:

1) Make sure the passenger knows how to change the frequency on the radio.
2) Make sure they have 121.5 MHz memorized.
3) Show them how to enter 7700 in the transponder.

Beyond any real training of how to fly the airplane, I think that is the best you could do. It would give the passenger the ability to (hopefully) get in touch with someone that could help them (radios). It would also allow them to be identified (squawk code).

Any other ideas on the most important knowledge that could be shared in less than 5 minutes?

Of course, the "Pinch Hitter" courses I have seen advertised would probably be the best way to go.
Click to expand...

Spend a couple minutes to revive the pilot?
 
When I travel with people that don't have a lot of experience in small airplanes, I don't usually do too much to teach them about how to operate the airplane. I have a routine that I do showing them how to operate the door, the emergency exit, the oxygen masks if there is a pressurization issue, etc., but I don't go into the aircraft operation itself. I am a bit concerned that doing so may actually create more anxiety for the passenger than any usable knowledge that they may gain. However, as the trip goes on, I will show them the basics of the radio operation and flight controls.

I fly with my family on board about four or five times a year. Typically, they are longer flights to get us to a destination, rather than just going to lunch or for a joy ride.

Because of those trips, I had wanted my wife to take a real pinch hitter course to get a better understanding of the airplane and how to land it in the event of an emergency. She never had any interest in doing so and doesn't even have any interest in helping during the flights. She typically sits in the back and reads or sleeps!

Luckily, my oldest turned 15 and my wife threw out the idea that he should take the pinch hitter course. So, I set up some time with an instructor and he did some ground school and a flight to get acclimated with the basics of the radios, the flight controls and the Flight Director and Autopilot. The flight culminated in an ILS approach and a landing to a full stop, which we all survived.

He did great, but the reality is that he has not done it enough times to be able to consistently do it. So my goal is to get him in the airplane practicing a couple of times a year. Plus, as an added bonus, he now wants to get his pilots license!

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I have some video, but I can't figure out how to compress it and upload it!

Abram Finkelstein,
N48KY
 

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My dad has his certificate and my brother rides with me often. Either could get the airplane down without dying, I think my brother would probably bend it up, but he'd survive.

I sort of want my brother to take lessons, maybe just get to where he can land it, even if not solo... in the case that something happened to me, he could get down without injuring himself and my nephew if he were along for the ride.
 
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