Pilots...what are your pet peeves?

jordane93 said:
I just tell them my mom signed the permission slip today.
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Boarding one time and a middle aged woman poked her head in to cockpit, took a look at me, and said "thank God, he has gray hair". You do hear some crazy sh%t flying in the airlines.
 
I'll call this my anti-Jordan story: ;)

Back in my 135 days, we were flying some rich businessmen to Wisconsin for a Packer's game. We usually left the cockpit door open so the passengers could come up and chat or ask questions if needed (I never flew a business jet large enough to have a cabin attendant). Anyway, two of my passengers were sitting on the sofa across from the main cabin door, and we overheard them say:

"Hey, don't you think our pilot looks a little on the young side?"
"Hmmmm...maybe a little, but I've seen younger. This guy is probably at least forty."

I was 29.

A***holes.
 
Very minor ones:

Pilots who say, "taking the active" at an uncontrolled field. 1) there is no such thing and 2) where are you taking it?

Pilots who start their ctaf transmission correctly with the field name + "traffic" but don't drop the word traffic when repeating field name at the end.

Controllers who tell me that altitude is my discretion when I'm VFR, after I advised them as a courtesy (didn't ask permission) that I am beginning descent for a field.

I'm sure I have more!


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kayoh190 said:
I'll call this my anti-Jordan story: ;)

Back in my 135 days, we were flying some rich businessmen to Wisconsin for a Packer's game. We usually left the cockpit door open so the passengers could come up and chat or ask questions if needed (I never flew a business jet large enough to have a cabin attendant). Anyway, two of my passengers were sitting on the sofa across from the main cabin door, and we overheard them say:

"Hey, don't you think our pilot looks a little on the young side?"
"Hmmmm...maybe a little, but I've seen younger. This guy is probably at least forty."

I was 29.

A***holes.
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People don't need to say anything to me. I can read what they're saying by the look on their faces lol.
 
gsengle said:
... Controllers who tell me that altitude is my discretion when I'm VFR, after I advised them as a courtesy (didn't ask permission) that I am beginning descent for a field...
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I'm a little confused on this one. What do you want them to say?
 
Roger.


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I would assume that if you're talking to a controller, even though you are VFR, that you are in controlled airspace OR you are getting flight following in uncontrolled airspace. Controllers have to have a way of preserving your VFRness and with phraseology that lets you know that its okay for you to descend on your own. If the controller says "roger" all they are saying is, "I heard you." But if you're in controlled airspace or getting flight following, even though you are VFR, the controller has to have a way to approve that without it sounding like an IFR descent.

Controllers get it from both sides. We get the pilots who want to be free and fly VFR but still have the security of receiving traffic advisories. You can't have it both ways. If we simply sit back and say, "hey, they're VFR..see and avoid, so I'm not giving that traffic call" there will be somebody who thinks we let two VFR guys get too close. So rather than it being a pet peeve, just understand that "roger" means, I heard you, and not approval to descend while you are being "controlled" in their airspace.
 
jordane93 said:
People don't need to say anything to me. I can read what they're saying by the look on their faces lol.
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My wife once worked with a gal who didn't need to utter a word. She had body language down to a science. A real hoot to watch.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I would assume that if you're talking to a controller, even though you are VFR, that you are in controlled airspace OR you are getting flight following in uncontrolled airspace. Controllers have to have a way of preserving your VFRness and with phraseology that lets you know that its okay for you to descend on your own. If the controller says "roger" all they are saying is, "I heard you." But if you're in controlled airspace or getting flight following, even though you are VFR, the controller has to have a way to approve that without it sounding like an IFR descent.

Controllers get it from both sides. We get the pilots who want to be free and fly VFR but still have the security of receiving traffic advisories. You can't have it both ways. If we simply sit back and say, "hey, they're VFR..see and avoid, so I'm not giving that traffic call" there will be somebody who thinks we let two VFR guys get too close. So rather than it being a pet peeve, just understand that "roger" means, I heard you, and not approval to descend while you are being "controlled" in their airspace.
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What do mean by "approved" and how is the pilot "controlled" on flight following? This doesn't jibe with my understanding of traffic advisories.
 
Exactly. If I request descent, they feel the need to tell me "altitude your discretion", so I merely advise. And about half the time they are lazy and just say the same. The other half the time they answer correctly and say roger or something useful...

That's why it's a peeve. Telling me I don't have to ask for permission when I didn't!


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So, YOU request a descent and you're peeved because the controller says "descent your discretion"? Why did you even bother with the request then, or even bother getting FF if you don't like what controllers have to say? There is airspace where you do have to receive approval from ATC, but I'm guessing that gets under your skin too. Simple solution is don't call ATC for advisories if it's so stressful to you. :rolleyes:
 
No! I don't request I inform, and they still tell me some percentage of the time descent your discretion.

I know the difference between "request begin descent" and "beginning descent"

Not a big deal but a peeve :)


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Controllers have a very specific and required way they use phraseology in accordance with FAA 7110.65. If you're really bored some day you can read it or download it from FAA.gov. Even better why don't you visit an ATC facility and discuss your 'peeves' with the controllers. Might completely change your attitude towards controllers. They are not working against you man.
 
It's minor. Also they only do it like 40% of the time so it isn't a matter of prescribed phraseology. They don't have to tell you descent your discretion if all I'm doing is a courtesy call to let them know I'm beginning descent.

You do know what a peeve is right? It's a MINOR annoyance. Yeesh.


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You guys talking about flight following and vfr descent remind me of a minor funny story. On one of my trips to Wyoming I was vfr over the top and high enough for flight following the entire trip. The only problem was that my destination was overcast and I was going to fly 20 miles past to descend below the layer. So there I am directly over my destination and about 10,000 agl. Center called and ask me if I knew where I was (not in those words but it was what they meant). I laughed then keyed the mic to 'splain what was going on. They didn't seem thrilled with my response.
 
Sam D said:
What do mean by "approved" and how is the pilot "controlled" on flight following? This doesn't jibe with my understanding of traffic advisories.
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Has Center ever gave you a vector while on flight following to avoid traffic? That's what I mean.

I knew before I put finger to key that someone was not going to get my answer. Mark is right about the 7110.65. We can't simply say "roger" to someone who informs us of an altitude change while in our airspace. Lastly, Mark hit it right on the head, if you want controllers to be nothing more than your humble servant while you fly the friendly skies, then don't talk to them because they might say something you won't like.
 
Yes controllers frequently say "roger" when I'm not being vectored, I'm "own navigation" and VFR getting radar advisories. I don't even have to tell em I'm beginning my descent. And mostly they just say "Roger"


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Well then what are you peeved about, that they don't say "roger" 100% of the time? Controllers are people too, some do it by the book, some bring their saddle to work.
 
It's a peeve not a big deal. But if I tell someone I'm doing something and don't ask permission, I don't expect to be given permission lol. This is about peeves which by definition is not a big deal.


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gsengle said:
Very minor ones:

Pilots who say, "taking the active" at an uncontrolled field. 1) there is no such thing and 2) where are you taking it?

Pilots who start their ctaf transmission correctly with the field name + "traffic" but don't drop the word traffic when repeating field name at the end.
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Agreed.

And pilots who don't say the field name at all at the end of their transmission.

And pilots taking off without indicating their direction of departure.

Sloppy, sloppy!!
 
gsengle said:
It's a peeve not a big deal. But if I tell someone I'm doing something and don't ask permission, I don't expect to be given permission lol. This is about peeves which by definition is not a big deal.


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Most of the time, I'm observing your flight track and altitude readout in relation to the other observed traffic traversing my sector. Most of the time, when a pilot advises they are climbing or descending my response is "roger, maintain VFR" but I already have observed what they are doing. I'm scanning my scope and can tell if you are turning, climbing or descending.

If I'm providing you radar services and you do something that I think may be unsafe, I'll advise you of what's ahead.

If I am providing you radar services and you do something that I observe IS UNSAFE, you bet I will vector you. Or assign you an altitude. Or maybe both.

A lot of controllers employ the technique of saying "advise any altitude changes." I did that at the center. I worked a lot of VFR aircraft at either 10,500 or 11,500 and the floor of my airspace was 11,000. Any descent required immediate coordination with the sector below me, so the heads-up helped me coordinate the handoff.


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Had this happen to me the other day at CVG. I went outside to do the preflight in full uniform including blazer with my ID. I asked a mechanic what the door code to get back in was. He said with a straight face, are you crew? Again, full uniform, lanyard and ID visible. o_Oo_O
 
My pet peeve most of the time is the poor weather in SE Alaska....;)
 
I rarely fly Vfr but when I do into class C I advise beginning my vfr descent. Often I get negative maintain current altitude to avoid departure traffic. So while we think we can fly vfr altitudes at our discretion in the airspace I frequent I cannot.
 
AKBill said:
My pet peeve most of the time is the poor weather in SE Alaska....;)
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I flew outta Juneau over the summer. It was the first summer in Ak where I never picked up any ice.

But in Juneau I saw more rain in the first 10 days then I have seen in the last 10 years here in the high desert of the southwest....:lol:
 
Zeldman said:
I flew outta Juneau over the summer. It was the first summer in Ak where I never picked up any ice.

But in Juneau I saw more rain in the first 10 days then I have seen in the last 10 years here in the high desert of the southwest....:lol:
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We have seen less rain in the summer of 2016 than the last 40 years, global warming or something.... I did get spoiled this summer flew almost every weekend. But it's late fall and the rain is back and soon to come the snow...
 
That was a dry summer..??? :lol::lol::lol:

I left when the termination dust started falling on the hill tops.
 
Zeldman said:
That was a dry summer..??? :lol::lol::lol:

I left when the termination dust started falling on the hill tops.
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Watching the snow come down the mountains is a past time for us. That is when there is enough light to see the mountains....:)
 
You guys get a lot of light there in winter. Not like Barrow, which drove me nuts. I moved south to Kotz after the first winter....:loco::lol:
 
Zeldman said:
You guys get a lot of light there in winter. Not like Barrow, which drove me nuts. I moved south to Kotz after the first winter....:loco::lol:
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Very true, the only thing is I work in an underground mine. Go underground 6am, come out at 4pm don't see the sun till the weekend....
 
Altitude your discretion I loathe saying to a VFR in Class E as a pilot, but see it from my perspective as a controller. I work Class B that isn't insanely busy by most definitions, but at times it can get hectic and there are a few airports that are located poorly depending on flow. Probably 10 times a week I will talk to a pilot on VFR advisories that is poorly versed in the FARS. This sort of pilot will either a) fly into the Bravo because I've not told them to descend. B) wait until evasive maneuvers would be needed to avoid the Bravo ie less than a quarter mile away before asking for clearance, or C) approach their destination at 8,000 feet AGL 10 miles away because I've haven't assigned an altitude. The usual discussion with C is verify landing XYZ? Affirmative. That's ten miles away, when do you plan to begin descent? Well, I wanted to 25 miles ago.

No doubt POA pilots don't need that prompting, and I mean it. This is a group that seeks knowledge in every facet of aviation, but some pilots don't. Really and truly if I say altitude your discretion its because I don't know if you're versed or not. The very last thing I want is to call a tower and panic change a departures altitude to avert both a conflict and violation. Granted the odds of that EVER being an issue are slim, but I recognize I'm human, it CAN happen, it HAS happened. Someone could easily, as often as it happens to me at least, sneak into the departure corridor while my scan is elsewhere and conflict in the Bravo, cause an RA and as a result cause enforcement action and God forbid injury.

Similar parallel is when a VFR pilot tells me they will be beginning decent. Needed? No, but I'll bet you I'll scan their flight path and double check. I'm fairly sure that's what they're hoping for anyway and I wouldn't call it a peeve in the slightest. I'll just say thanks/approved/roger/OH DEAR JESUS NO TRAFFIC! :)
 
AKBill said:
Very true, the only thing is I work in an underground mine. Go underground 6am, come out at 4pm don't see the sun till the weekend....
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I feel your pain. I work 0600-0430, and now that Daylight Savings is over, I drive both ways in the dark. I'm right at the very eastern edge of Central Time. Sometimes I walk outside to the next building, 15-20' away under a roofed walk, but not often. Other than that, the plant is large, open and windowless . . . It's now time to hibernate.
 
jordane93 said:
Had this happen to me the other day at CVG. I went outside to do the preflight in full uniform including blazer with my ID. I asked a mechanic what the door code to get back in was. He said with a straight face, are you crew? Again, full uniform, lanyard and ID visible. o_Oo_O
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With that face he thought you were a minor dressed up in a pilot uniform that someone got out on the ramp.... :)
 
mscard88 said:
sorta like AU? :D
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No, that's on Saturday. It's sunny here, winder what the weather is in Athens?

By the way, I've become a Mississippi State fan! Go, Bulldogs!

Like the tshirt I used to have: My two favorite teams are Auburn, and whoever's playing Alabama!
 
Controllers asking me if I have the terrain in sight when I am VFR. Someday I might get to say no. Can't wait to hear what they say next
 
Hank S said:
By the way, I've become a Mississippi State fan! Go, Bulldogs!

Like the tshirt I used to have: My two favorite teams are Auburn, and whoever's playing Alabama!
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Hey now, I pull for Awwburn except that one weekend in Nov every year.

That's like when the Finebaum Show was in Birmingham, folks would call in with their 3 picks, and name off 2 and then their 3rd pick was whoever was playing AU (or Bama).
 
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