Pilots Talking on the Radio

J

JohnWF

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
194
Display Name
Display name:
John at Salida
I flew again this morning and heard an aircraft taking off from my airport. His speech was so slurred and 'mushy' that it was impossible to understand.

He is not alone. More and more I head radio calls that cannot be understood because of 'clipped' speech, incomplete sentences, or just plain sloppy talk.

I have worked in FAA towers, flight stations, and three different air route traffic control centers. The tower controllers, for the most part, are the worst. There seems to be some thought that rapid, machine-gun speech makes one a hot controller, even if his delivery makes it difficult for many to understand. Most of the time there is no need whatever to try to speak as rapidly as possible, but for safety sake, I think the agency should improve speech techniques in towers. Obviously at some major airports where there is a lot of traffic, fast deliver is needed, but in most instances it is not.

I wish flight instructors would emphasize speech on the radio to students.

Flame away !
 
No flames from me, I agree. There seem to be some who believe that speaking quickly and indistinctly is cool. It ain't.

Controllers (and pilots) who speak more slowly and enunciate actually save time, because communicatioln occurs accurately the first time.
 
"RV flight of two initial for the break 15 Lincoln. Any traffic in the pattern please advise"
 
Honestly my experience is pretty different. I fly in New York airspace, notorious for many planes and rapid talk ATC and both controllers and many pilots make it a point to speak quickly but accurately so as to not tie up the frequency for too long. Totally agree that poor radio calls lead to confusion and actually slow things down. I guess to each his own in this instance.
 
Norcal ATC controllers are generally pretty good and easy to understand. I do hear the occasional pilot who is not and, very rarely, a tower controller.
 
I love it when 2-3 pilots start swapping their "war stories" on CTAF in northeast.... The times I wish I told them to STFU and let me listen for traffic... And they are from the same field. Land, go to each other's hangar, and talk your hearts out.
 
In the Midwest we usually end up hearing the guys life story. :rolleyes:

"Crete area traffic advisory. I am 10.0236 nautical miles to the west north west flying at at altitude of 4,562 statutory feet above mean sea level, flying a 1956 Cessna 172 that we modified into a 170. Our plans in the near future are to enter the 45 degree angle to access the down wind portion of the standard traffic pattern for runway 170 at the Crete airport. Our angle might be closer to 48 degrees however so we will let you know. This has been a Crete area traffic advisory, any area in the area monitoring this frequency please advise. ".

Short and sweet is better than long and windy. ;)
 
Meanee said:
I love it when 2-3 pilots start swapping their "war stories" on CTAF in northeast.... The times I wish I told them to STFU and let me listen for traffic... And they are from the same field. Land, go to each other's hangar, and talk your hearts out.
Click to expand...

"Could you guys please land and get a room?". Usually stops the conversation. :rofl:

Seriously, I politely remind them that 122.75 is the air to air frequency.
 
Last edited:
Geico266 said:
In the Midwest we usually end up hearing the guys life story. :rolleyes:

"Crete area traffic advisory. I am 10.0236 nautical miles to the west north west flying at at altitude of 4,562 statutory feet above mean sea level, flying a 1956 Cessna 172 that we modified into a 170. Our plans in the near future are to enter the 45 degree angle to access the down wind portion of the standard traffic pattern for runway 170 at the Crete airport. Our angle might be closer to 48 degrees however so we will let you know. This has been a Crete area traffic advisory, any area in the area monitoring this frequency please advise. ".

Short and sweet is better than long and windy. ;)
Click to expand...

At least it's informative. Our CTAF yakkers are typically
Oh hey there, didn't see you
Oh look, you are flying today too. Great weather!
Yes, weather's awesome. I took out friend's plane, the N1234
Really? N1234? Didn't he have a prop strike back in 2003?
Yea, he did. It flies great tho
So, do you have wife and kids on board?
Naw, wife is watching me from the ground
Why? Afraid to fly?


and so on.
 
Meanee said:
At least it's informative. Our CTAF yakkers are typically
Oh hey there, didn't see you
Oh look, you are flying today too. Great weather!
Yes, weather's awesome. I took out friend's plane, the N1234
Really? N1234? Didn't he have a prop strike back in 2003?
Yea, he did. It flies great tho
So, do you have wife and kids on board?
Naw, wife is watching me from the ground
Why? Afraid to fly?


and so on.
Click to expand...

I hear ya. ;)

A sentence or two to convey friendliness and politeness to me is fine. We get a lot of student pilots practicing landings and doing CC full stops. They are more than welcome and I try and convey a little hospitality. Out here a lot of FBO's give weather and traffic reports when someone first announces. On flyin breakfast days we will go up 5,000' and announce breakfast on all of the local airport freqs. Probably illegal, but I just tell them I'm a student of Jesse's . :rofl::rofl: :eek:
 
When I was a student pilot I thought I was ok on the radio until one day I came in from doing touch and goes and other instructor told me "For crying out loud! Slow down when you are on the radio. We can't understand a word you are saying!".

I didn't even know I was talking fast. If he hadn't chewed me out who knows when if ever I would of fixed the problem.
 
Now this is something that really annoys me about aviation. Why is the communication so rapid, mumbled, and downright ridiculously hard to understand? Do pilots in general have a need to feel like a "Top Gun" fighter pilot or some kind of hot shot with auctioneer type of lingo and speed? The controllers are just as bad it seems. I'm surpised more accidents haven't occurred due to sloppy communication.
 
One factor is the clarity of the mic & radio combo. Some are great - crisp and clear - some are more like listening to music on the AM broadcast radio in your car.
 
my complaint is with a local tower in Denver - at 2 am, the controller on duty cannot enunciate the ATIS. I think he's got an alarm that wakes him up 2 min before he has to record and it sounds like it!
 
Most of the time, I think radio traffic is working just fine. I cannot any discern any trends neither for better or for worse.

There are a couple of rules to which I try sticking:

1. I listen before speaking. Not only does it help to filter what information is relevant (If I’m obviously alone in the pattern at a remote field, there is less need for detail in my transmissions than if I know someone may be nearby on a collision course). Listening first also helps me avoid stepping on someone else's transmission, or interceding between a request and a response.

2. Before transmitting, I think what I want to say. If it’s complex, I might even make some notes from which I can speak.

3. When in contact with ATC, I always keep a pencil ready to write down instructions. Then I slowly and deliberately read back all instructions (Once, I actually overheard an exchange in which a controller handed out a squawk code, the pilot read it back fast but wrong, and the controller confirmed the wrong code. They caught it a few minutes later. Could have become dangerous, though. To this day I wonder if I should have alerted them?)

4. If I don’t understand something, I ask. “Say again” usually solves the problem (The worst to me are taxi instructions at an unfamiliar airport. Even with a taxiway map, I get confused. However, no ground controller so far has refused my request for “progressive taxi instructions”).

Generally; I cannot laud ATC enough. ATC controllers are professionals, who deserve a lot of respect. Radio communication is an important part of their job. In the New York area, where I fly, this must be a very stressful way of earning a living. I try not to make controllers’ lives harder. Example: If a frequency is dominated by short-fire instructions to various aircraft, I deduce that this may not be the best time to hover around the edges of Class Bravo, asking for a VFR transition. A few minutes later, or in a different sector a few miles on, things may be a lot better.

One more point: I have never been scolded for clogging the airwaves by saying “Thank you”.
 
I think some people are just trying to be "cool" like the people in the big metal. I listen to DCA's traffic and although fast, the clarity is sharp and the communication is clear and concise. I used to work at a radio station, so I've learned to delete any words like, "uh" and "um" when I speak. People listen more when you don't fill their heads with that.
 
JohnWF said:
I flew again this morning and heard an aircraft taking off from my airport. His speech was so slurred and 'mushy' that it was impossible to understand.
Click to expand...
Are you from Salida, CO?
 
If you're wondering if you sound bad, fly into an airport served by one of the many LiveATC.net volunteers, then later when you're home, pull up the audio archives and listen to yourself. Side benefit, you'll hear if your headset/radio/mic combination sounds crappy too.

My Lightspeeds sound a lot worse than my David Clarks. The microphone on a Lightspeed is an electret designed for full-range audio, which is completely unnecessary in two-way radio communications, whereas the DC mic emphasizes mid-range and gives a touch more high-end for consonants and sibilance.

DC and folks like Bob Heil figured out how to make COMMUNICATIONS microphones decades ago.

I wish the newbies making headsets these days would read up on it. Or just give guys like Bob a call.

I'd also LOVE to see Mr. Heil's company build an aviation headset. THAT would be worth a price premium.
 
> LiveATC.net volunteers, then later when you're home, pull up the audio
> archives and listen to yourself.

Moi? I've attached a mp3 of my typical audio. <g>

>> mushy

If it's a controller, I'll listen on both my comms. If it's still mushy, I may try
the headset for the right seat. If it's still mushy, I'll ask the controller to try
a different mic (whenever his workload permits).

>>> I'd also LOVE to see Mr. Heil's company build an aviation headset.
>>> THAT would be worth a price premium.

Amen.
 

Attachments

Last edited:
HerrGruyere said:
I think some people are just trying to be "cool" like the people in the big metal. I listen to DCA's traffic and although fast, the clarity is sharp and the communication is clear and concise. I used to work at a radio station, so I've learned to delete any words like, "uh" and "um" when I speak. People listen more when you don't fill their heads with that.
Click to expand...

If you fly long enough, you will hear the "big metal" pilots make dumb mistakes in communication...they are human, like the rest of us. It is unusual to catch a controller in a mistake because they have a handbook that dictates what to say and when to say it, and they are checked by quality control supervisors on a quarterly (?) basis....a "tape talk." Pilots do not have a standard that they must meet.

Bob Gardner
 
denverpilot said:
DC and folks like Bob Heil figured out how to make COMMUNICATIONS microphones decades ago.

I wish the newbies making headsets these days would read up on it. Or just give guys like Bob a call.

I'd also LOVE to see Mr. Heil's company build an aviation headset. THAT would be worth a price premium.
Click to expand...

So would I. I have a Heil headset for my amateur radio station and have never gotten a negative comment about audio quality when using it.
 
denverpilot said:
If you're wondering if you sound bad, fly into an airport served by one of the many LiveATC.net volunteers, then later when you're home, pull up the audio archives and listen to yourself. Side benefit, you'll hear if your headset/radio/mic combination sounds crappy too.

My Lightspeeds sound a lot worse than my David Clarks. The microphone on a Lightspeed is an electret designed for full-range audio, which is completely unnecessary in two-way radio communications, whereas the DC mic emphasizes mid-range and gives a touch more high-end for consonants and sibilance.

DC and folks like Bob Heil figured out how to make COMMUNICATIONS microphones decades ago.

I wish the newbies making headsets these days would read up on it. Or just give guys like Bob a call.

I'd also LOVE to see Mr. Heil's company build an aviation headset. THAT would be worth a price premium.
Click to expand...

You mean I'm not supposed to have that AM broadcast sound where I add an eq, processor, tube simulator, limiter and gate to make my audio 25kc wider each direction?


Sent from my iPhone
using Tapatalk
 
cavmedic said:
You mean I'm not supposed to have that AM broadcast sound where I add an eq, processor, tube simulator, limiter and gate to make my audio 25kc wider each direction?


Sent from my iPhone
using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

You forgot the ribbon mic....
 
INdigo ---- yes, I am in Salida..hangared at Kank
 
I really hate when people make their initial callups or handoffs to Center or Tower or whoever without listening in. Someone mentioned it, but I had to second it. I was listening to Channel 9 on United on our way to London last week, and our pilot would switch and talk without listening...he interrupted a number of exchanges.
 
-I can't stand how salty regional pilots try to sound. They lower their voice an octave or two and add that 'drawl' that they must think makes them sound like a true veteran of the skies.

-Not a fan of women on the radio and how dang chipper that sound. I'm on leg three at 9:00 am on my 3rd cup of joe and they just sound too awake.

-I see guys I'm flying with all the time get a hand off and switch and talk in the same second. How's about we listen for a second or a minute before we step all over people already talking? Often, when I'm the PM I'll wait to check in for a good minute or two making the other guy ask if I'm gonna check in. Yeah, I will. Just not in any particular hurry.

-if you're going to write down a simple taxi instruction why not do it after you respond to the instruction. Ground says, "taxi to 27R via alpha" and the whole field gets to wait while your write, "r.n.w.y 2.7R. V.i.a. 'A'. Just read it back and then write it down, that's all I'm sayin.


Sorry to the girls. It's not your fault and it sounds sexist. I didn't mean it that way. It's just something physical that your voices are higher pitched and y'all just always sound so happy.
 
JohnWF said:
INdigo ---- yes, I am in Salida..hangared at Kank
Click to expand...
We had a POA fly-in to Salida yesterday. Well, a fly-in of only one airplane. Everyone else wanted to sleep in. :D

We didn't see or hear a soul either taking off or landing. Took car #2 for breakfast by the river. Should have taken car #3 with the police markings. :)

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51922

The Colorado group gets together sometimes. You should watch for these threads.
 
Last edited:
I have lots of pet peeves:

-"uhhhh Santa Fe uhhh tower uhhhh cessna 172 is errr lets see here 7 miles to the southwest of your position with ahhhhh oh well the information for full stop and ahhh we'll be parking at the santa fe air center today, over"

-"Helooooo Albuquerque center Southwest 788 is with you checkin' in at three eight oh. How ya doin? any short cuts"

Just to name a few.
 
It's not a problem in a Cub or a Champ. Just flying, no talking.
 
Bobcat1 said:
It's not a problem in a Cub or a Champ. Just flying, no talking.
Click to expand...

Yup, and I came "this" close to hitting a NORDO Champ at a tower controlled field this past weekend. Apparently he had ran out of gas and was making an emergency landing and didn't bother to carry so much as a hand held with him. Tower cleared me for take off and he was on "very short 45 degree final" I saw him then the tower started yelling. Had I took the runway, he would have nailed me, he also came "this" close to ground looping it after he'd used up a mile and a half of runway to get down.
 
...and didn't bother to carry so much as a hand held with him.
Click to expand...

Aviate, Navigate, Communicate.

Perhaps at the time of his emergency landing, communicating wasn't at the top of his priority list.

Mark-1 eyeballs still work, and see and avoid is still the law.
 
DouglasBader said:
Aviate, Navigate, Communicate.

Perhaps at the time of his emergency landing, communicating wasn't at the top of his priority list.

Mark-1 eyeballs still work, and see and avoid is still the law.
Click to expand...

He didn't have a radio, called the tower back from the FBO after he landed and said so. If you're going to run out of fuel and make an emergency landing at a class D airport, at least have the decency to carry $200 handheld with you.

Kinda like flying IMC in a single engine plane, just stupid to do if you don't have the right equipment.
 
Last edited:
Radio or not, it's the last damn thing you are thinking about in an emergency.
 
DavidWhite said:
Radio or not, it's the last damn thing you are thinking about in an emergency.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I'm having a hard time drumming up a lot of sympathy for an idiot who runs out of gas and nearly collides with me. Cabin fire? Sure. There's a 95% chance we would have collided had I taken off as I was cleared to do. If you're going to do **** poor fuel management, at least have the common decency to carry a hand held to let those in the path of your bad judgment know the peril they're in. Sure, see and avoid yadda yadda yadda. at a towered airport at the hold short line and hear "2718P Cleared for take off runway 29" You go into takeoff mode. I'm sitting at the hold short line obviously about to take off, I bet he was wishing he had sprung for an SP-200 off eBay when he saw me release my brakes and start rolling. Luckily, I fly out of a non towered airport with lots of NORDO and it's just habit to check final one more time before I roll onto the runway.
 
Last edited:
bartmc said:
...Luckily, I fly out of a non towered airport with lots of NORDO and it's just habit to check final one more time before I roll onto the runway.
Click to expand...

So "see and avoid" obviously works. OK, so the guy's lack of planning will get him dinged eventually; not the emergency itself.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top