Pilot Protests

amiss? not really

people always want more (well, almost always)
 
Everyone is due for a new contract and this is what pattern bargaining is all about. Doesn't have anything to do with how I feel about the job in an absolute sense.
 
kayoh190 said:
Everyone is due for a new contract and this is what pattern bargaining is all about. Doesn't have anything to do with how I feel about the job in an absolute sense.
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If your current contract pays well and the schedule is great, why the need to request a 20 % pay increase?
 
Velocity173 said:
If your current contract pays well and the schedule is great, why the need to request a 20 % pay increase?
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None of that matters. The company wants a deal done to meet its goals and our contract has been amenable since 2019 - this is just how it works. Given today's inflationary environment, I've got to ask why *you* aren't negotiating to earn more as well? :)

And it's not going to be 20% up front - I'll be willing to bet that 10/5/5 is close to how it shakes out. These things always come with a lot of saber rattling, but the legacies are so top-heavy in age that I bet many of the older guys will vote yes just to maximize their income before they punch out.
 
kayoh190 said:
None of that matters. The company wants a deal done to meet its goals and our contract has been amenable since 2019 - this is just how it works. Given today's inflationary environment, I've got to ask why *you* aren't negotiating to earn more as well? :)

And it's not going to be 20% up front - I'll be willing to bet that 10/5/5 is close to how it shakes out. These things always come with a lot of saber rattling, but the legacies are so top-heavy in age that I bet many of the older guys will vote yes just to maximize their income before they punch out.
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Well we just got a pay increase so no need. That and we don’t have a union to negotiate anything…not to mention we’re over paid as it is. :)
 
luvflyin said:
Breaking News. Air Medivac Company lowers pilots pay at pilots request:goofy:
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Only pilot in the business that tells the truth. Bunch of whinny MEDEVAC pilots that are paid too much to sit all day and do nothing. I don’t tell my med crew that though. Got ‘em convinced that my job requires special skills and I’m under paid. ;)
 
Velocity173 said:
Only pilot in the business that tells the truth. Bunch of whinny MEDEVAC pilots that are paid too much to sit all day and do nothing. I don’t tell my med crew that though. Got ‘em convinced that my job requires special skills and I’m under paid. ;)
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You must work for a unicorn employer. Every medical job I looked at paid **** money including the one I had for a couple years. Glad you found a good one.
 
Funny how when a company does everything in its power to increase profits, that’s just good ole capitalism in action and should be expected and supported. When labor does the same though, it’s questioned as “you already have a ‘good’ job and salary, why do you want more? How greedy”

If they think they can get more, why shouldn’t they? The airline certainly wouldn’t hesitate to cut pay if it could.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
You must work for a unicorn employer. Every medical job I looked at paid **** money including the one I had for a couple years. Glad you found a good one.
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Depends on what you call **** money I guess. If you look at salary as an hourly wage while at work, then it ain’t much. If you compare it to flight hour salary like the airlines do, then it’s descent pay. With 130 hrs flying last year, if I got paid by the flight hour, I’d be on food stamps.

Whole industry is going through a massive shakeup right now. Everyone is hurting for pilots. We came out of the gates first with a pay increase / bonuses and pilots from other companies started jumping ship. Old pilot friends from our “competitors” calling me asking about openings. Then, all these other HAA companies raised their pay and pilots who already committed to us pulled out at the last minute to stay where they are. It’s like golfers leaving the PGA for the LIV tour! :D

No Surprise Billing Act started this year as well. Still early but I’m not so sure that’ll be good for my industry. :(
 
Velocity173 said:
Depends on what you call **** money I guess. If you look at salary as an hourly wage while at work, then it ain’t much. If you compare it to flight hour salary like the airlines do, then it’s descent pay. With 130 hrs flying last year, if I got paid by the flight hour, I’d be on food stamps.

Whole industry is going through a massive shakeup right now. Everyone is hurting for pilots. We came out of the gates first with a pay increase / bonuses and pilots from other companies started jumping ship. Old pilot friends from our “competitors” calling me asking about openings. Then, all these other HAA companies raised their pay and pilots who already committed to us pulled out at the last minute to stay where they are. It’s like golfers leaving the PGA for the LIV tour! :D

No Surprise Billing Act started this year as well. Still early but I’m not so sure that’ll be good for my industry. :(
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I don’t think that will be good for the industry if you’re an employee.

If you’re not making at least 130k a year with full benefits you’re way under paid in my opinion. You can’t base pay off of hours flown its about your skill set and the amount of your time the company gets.
 
I’d add (and 121 folks, please correct me if I’m wrong) that if you’re flying for a living, you are one unexpected diagnosis away from a failed medical and unemployment. As such, I’d absolutely take every opportunity to maximize pay.
 
Omalley1537 said:
I’d add (and 121 folks, please correct me if I’m wrong) that if you’re flying for a living, you are one unexpected diagnosis away from a failed medical and unemployment. As such, I’d absolutely take every opportunity to maximize pay.
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While losing my medical is always a threat, it's not instant poverty either - we just go out on LTD, and a lot of guys end up teaching in the schoolhouse if they can't get the medical issue resolved. Obviously LTD isn't equal to what we make while flying, but it's still a solid six figures of income while we figure out what to do next. So between that and the war chest I should have plenty of time to pivot to a different career before I have to sell the house.

My plan is to just ask Whitney for a job driving a truck - apparently they all make substantially more than I already do! :D
 
Omalley1537 said:
I’d add (and 121 folks, please correct me if I’m wrong) that if you’re flying for a living, you are one unexpected diagnosis away from a failed medical and unemployment. As such, I’d absolutely take every opportunity to maximize pay.
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That’s true of all commercial flying. Just over the last 2 years I know of a half a dozen pilots just in my local program that lost medicals. One guy at my base just cleaned out his locker a few days ago because he was released.

Personally, I think we should be required to have class Is and a max age of 65 just like the airlines. I’m heartless! :D

Oh, my required disclaimer…these comments don’t reflect GMR or it’s affiliates.
 
I was very encouraged to hear about the GMR pay increases. Hoping AM follows suit, as it maximizes the locations available to me for fixed wing EMS if I decide to go that route post .mil.
 
hindsight2020 said:
I was very encouraged to hear about the GMR pay increases. Hoping AM follows suit, as it maximizes the locations available to me for fixed wing EMS if I decide to go that route post .mil.
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AM did within a couple of weeks of our announcement. Had a guy all set to come to my base. “It’s all about business. You all are paying more than my employer so I’m making the move.” Week later (as I predicted) AM bumped pay similar to ours and I never heard from that guy again. Back to square one.

Anyone got 2,000 + hrs rotor (turbine) give me call…I get a $10K referral. ;)
 
Nordic filed for bankruptcy protection, SAS has filed for bankruptcy protection, I predict American Airlines is headed down the same path.
 
Hang 4 said:
Because you might get it?
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At the potential cost of bankrupting your employer or making them less competitive in the market? I'm all for trying to get a competitive compensation package, but if it cuts other pilots who had jobs or makes the company worse off overall, it may be counterproductive.

However, in the case of AA and other legacies, I'd say screw em lol. Especially with inflation cutting so heavily into wages the past 6 months.
 
Velocity173 said:
Anyone got 2,000 + hrs rotor (turbine) give me call…I get a $10K referral. ;)
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Where are all the guys with all that turbine rotor coming from? I assume quite a few from the military, but do you get a lot of people switching from LEO work, etc...?
 
kayoh190 said:
Where are all the guys with all that turbine rotor coming from? I assume quite a few from the military, but do you get a lot of people switching from LEO work, etc...?
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Actually now that I think of it, it’s 1,500 turbine with 2,000 TT. All rotor for us. Some companies allow up to 500 fixed wing.

If I were to guess our make up, I’d say 50 % former military. 25% LEO. 25 % tours, gulf Mexico, fire, utility, foreign overseas pilots, etc. Typically it’s been an industry heavy with military because of the turbine / NVG experience. Hard to get NVG time flying tours.

Edit: probably just should have looked at our website before giving our prerequisites. It’s 2,000 TT 1,500 helo, 1,000 turbine, 1,000 PIC, 200 night / NVGs, 200 IFR (SPIFR).
 
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kayoh190 said:
Everyone is due for a new contract and this is what pattern bargaining is all about. Doesn't have anything to do with how I feel about the job in an absolute sense.
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Good point.

That said, I still see a huge difference in flight crew and gate agent attitudes on AA vs every other major. AA service has gotten so bad that I will literally take a layover in ATL on Delta than take the nonstops to DFW on AA.
 
Velocity173 said:
Hard to get NVG time flying tours.
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Interesting! Didn't even think about that. Glad you guys are getting raises - it's a crazy time in the industry. At least on the FW side, anyone can pretty much call their shot.
 
Velocity173 said:
Anyone got 2,000 + hrs rotor (turbine)
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FYI: GOMEX is looking for 1000-1500 rotor PIC, turbine not as important however the more turbine you have the quicker you get into the better routes.
 
Fearless Tower said:
That said, I still see a huge difference in flight crew and gate agent attitudes on AA vs every other major. AA service has gotten so bad that I will literally take a layover in ATL on Delta than take the nonstops to DFW on AA.
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The DFW station is *very* special. ;)
 
I just hope that if delta gets a deal they don't go back to wearing the stupid hats again. We should all protest for lower ticket prices since we already paid so much in the bail out a couple years ago.
 
SoonerAviator said:
At the potential cost of bankrupting your employer or making them less competitive in the market? I'm all for trying to get a competitive compensation package, but if it cuts other pilots who had jobs or makes the company worse off overall, it may be counterproductive.

However, in the case of AA and other legacies, I'd say screw em lol. Especially with inflation cutting so heavily into wages the past 6 months.
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I agree with you, saw the steel industry crippled by labor agreements that were unaffordable. Some legacy companies had ratios of 1 worker for 10 retirees, who were getting full medical. Agreements were reached when average mortality was in the 60's. Then healthcare got better and average age moved up and healthcare costs went crazy. One of the big drivers of bankruptcy. Having said that union leaders don't get re-elected by thinking about the long term profitability of their employer.
 
Hang 4 said:
One of the big drivers of bankruptcy. Having said that union leaders don't get re-elected by thinking about the long term profitability of their employer.
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The big problem that management has right now is the shortage - a pilot can pretty much go wherever he/she wants to go. If you're not in the ballpark with the other carriers in terms of pay/QOL, you'll find yourself without anyone to fly the airplanes. Once the music stops again there'll probably be a reckoning via contract restructuring in bankruptcies, but until then everyone is having to play ball. From a pilot perspective you get it while you can with the knowledge that the gravy train is unlikely to last.
 
kayoh190 said:
Interesting! Didn't even think about that. Glad you guys are getting raises - it's a crazy time in the industry. At least on the FW side, anyone can pretty much call their shot.
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Yeah it’s good all around in pilot jobs right now. Obviously we’re well below you all in compensation but for what I do, I’m not at all disappointed. Actually sitting at work now and my nurse making fun of me because I haven’t done jack all day (weather).:)

Seriously though, there is a problem with a raise like ours. It creates an underlying friction with our med crews. Whether it’s said blatantly or not, med crews as a whole know we get paid more than them. Every EMS pilot has heard hundreds of times “look at that mansion down there…that must be a pilot house.” It might be a joke but I know deep down that they 1) know I make more than them and 2) know my job is far easier than theirs. That $130K figure mentioned above ain’t far off the mark for me this year and I assure you, that’s around twice what a typical med crew makes. For you all, I’m sure you don’t have FAs grumbling about their pay vs yours but it’s different for us. We work very close with one another and pay disparities can cause friction. It’s hard to simply look at the situation and say, “screw it, I got mine.”
 
Hang 4 said:
I agree with you, saw the steel industry crippled by labor agreements that were unaffordable. Some legacy companies had ratios of 1 worker for 10 retirees, who were getting full medical. Agreements were reached when average mortality was in the 60's. Then healthcare got better and average age moved up and healthcare costs went crazy. One of the big drivers of bankruptcy. Having said that union leaders don't get re-elected by thinking about the long term profitability of their employer.
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All that life time health care and defined benefit retirement stuff went away about 20 years ago in the airline industry.
 
Bell206 said:
FYI: GOMEX is looking for 1000-1500 rotor PIC, turbine not as important however the more turbine you have the quicker you get into the better routes.
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Always thought turbine time was overrated but that’s what the industry / insurance requirements want. Without a lick of piston time I’d have a harder time transitioning to a piston than a piston guy going turbine.
 
Velocity173 said:
Yeah it’s good all around in pilot jobs right now. Obviously we’re well below you all in compensation but for what I do, I’m not at all disappointed. Actually sitting at work now and my nurse making fun of me because I haven’t done jack all day (weather).:)

Seriously though, there is a problem with a raise like ours. It creates an underlying friction with our med crews. Whether it’s said blatantly or not, med crews as a whole know we get paid more than them. Every EMS pilot has heard hundreds of times “look at that mansion down there…that must be a pilot house.” It might be a joke but I know deep down that they 1) know I make more than them and 2) know my job is far easier than theirs. That $130K figure mentioned above ain’t far off the mark for me this year and I assure you, that’s around twice what a typical med crew makes. For you all, I’m sure you don’t have FAs grumbling about their pay vs yours but it’s different for us. We work very close with one another and pay disparities can cause friction. It’s hard to simply look at the situation and say, “screw it, I got mine.”
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Encourage them to get their ratings. I had those conversations when I was driving the sky ambulance as well. I didn’t really let it bother me and I just found ways to change the subject. You’ll never win that conversation. The kind of person that will say crap that is also telling you that having a meaningful conversation is a waste of your time.
 
Velocity173 said:
Always thought turbine time was overrated but that’s what the industry / insurance requirements want.
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Just before I retired we were picking up 1500 robbie wonders at a greater rate than ex-mil for the simple reason they didn't have the minimum time. Will be interesting how all this works out across the 135/121 playing field. I know of a number of companies that are implementing internal headhunters to drawn in both pilot and mechanics to the GOM. They are even calling back people previously laid off and so on. Glad I'm out of that dog and pony show.
 
That’s flattering but I must gratefully demur. I can fly a Huey in my sleep, and actually have a few times (another war story). That’s motor skills. But I’m afraid I if I tried to do what you do technically my gyro would tumble.
 
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