PIC as Student Pilot on Solo flights?

GlennAB1 said:
Certified, certificated..... CFI... good thing I didn't say licensed. Thanks for straightening me out, a little Internet surfing will show there has been quite a bit of chatter about that confusion, the FAA even posted clarification.
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Whose talking about CFIs? We were talking about PILOTS.

There's only confusion when people who don't have a clue what they're talking about go spouting their mouths off as authorities. Just about everything you said was incorrect.
 
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1RTK1 said:
Can't be that rare, my instructor endorsed me for night flights.
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Me too. If they didn't intend you to use it they wouldn't have made a specific provision for it in the regs.
 
Shamir,

There must be a PIC on board every flight. Whether that pilot is properly certificated -- or whether he needs to be (UL Part 103) -- is another matter. If you weren't PIC of at least your solo flights, who was?

Safe Flights!
 
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It was a good question by a student pilot who was confused. It was answered in the first two responses*. After that, the course of the thread earns my nomination as the first of 2016 to be entered in the "stupidest thread of the year" contest.

(*maybe plus the ones suggesting it might be a joke rather than ignorance by the Asst Chief)
 
1RTK1 said:
Can't be that rare, my instructor endorsed me for night flights.
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I know it happoens. It is certainly legal, just not as common as a solo 'round the patch. Rather rare for student pilots to get endorsed to fly night xc, but it happens.
 
GlennAB1 said:
So when a Captain calls out for gear down it just goes down on its own.... the FO should say; You're the PIC of this airplane, put it down yourself. Crew Resources Management means nothing?
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CRM means nothing? If the Captain commands "gear down" and FO says, "do it yourself", there will be a new FO on the next flight.

>>>
91.3(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.
<<<

Someone is always PIC, there is only one PIC regardless of how it's logged or how many souls on board.
 
GlennAB1 said:
So when a Captain calls out for gear down it just goes down on its own.... the FO should say; You're the PIC of this airplane, put it down yourself. Crew Resources Management means nothing?
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PIC doesn't mean "do everything yourself". But I think you know that and you are trolling.
 
Regardless of the nuance/ silliness, if I'm flying the airplane, I log it as PIC. Life is too short to dive deeply into the tangled web of this; as a student, you have to count hours carefully, of course. But the rest of us don't.

If you're not counting the hours for currency or another rating, the FAA has no say in what does or doesn't go in your logbook.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Not at all. Just don't believe PIC is a necessary label when only one pilot is onboard.
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Your example references two people. And we are not discussing whether or not you believe PIC is a necessary label, we are discussing how student pilots are allowed to log their solo time.

From §61.51 Pilot logbooks.

(4) A student pilot may log pilot-in-command time only when the student pilot—

(i) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft or is performing the duties of pilot of command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember;

(ii) Has a solo flight endorsement as required under §61.87 of this part; and

(iii) Is undergoing training for a pilot certificate or rating.
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GlennAB1 said:
Not at all. Just don't believe PIC is a necessary label when only one pilot is onboard.
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Label or not, that individual is still in command whether he is solo or not. And at this point, you are just trolling.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Excuse me for only having dealt with aircraft requiring multiple crewmembers. So I've learned something through this thread.
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Hopefully you read the regs that apply to your normal occupation. For part 91, 61.51 applies, and if you read it carefully you won't need this thread.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Not at all. Just don't believe PIC is a necessary label when only one pilot is onboard.
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Except you're in command of the ship. Should there be no captain of a boat with only one crew member?

GlennAB1 said:
What if the FO's the owner?
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Seriously? PIC trumps owner, but that's between pilot and owner to discuss.

GlennAB1 said:
Excuse me for only having dealt with aircraft requiring multiple crewmembers. So I've learned something through this thread.
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If you crewed one with multiple, you'd have initially crewed something with a single crewmember, right? How'd that go?

DJTorrente said:
If you weren't PIC of at least your solo flights, who was?
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Oh, you know.

jesus_flying_an_airplane_by_grammar_crisis.png
 
Glenn, what point are you trying to prove? It has gotten lost in the noise.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Not if you come from where I've been for the last 33+ years.
FAR 121.533 -
(d) Each pilot in command of an aircraft is, during flight time, in command of the aircraft and crew and is responsible for the safety of the passengers, crewmembers, cargo, and airplane.

(e) Each pilot in command has full control and authority in the operation of the aircraft, without limitation, over other crewmembers and their duties during flight time, whether or not he holds valid certificates authorizing him to perform the duties of those crewmembers.
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I have followed this thread. I'm not sure I've understood a single post you have made.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Not if you come from where I've been for the last 33+ years.

FAR 121.533 -

(d) Each pilot in command of an aircraft is, during flight time, in command of the aircraft and crew and is responsible for the safety of the passengers, crewmembers, cargo, and airplane.



(e) Each pilot in command has full control and authority in the operation of the aircraft, without limitation, over other crewmembers and their duties during flight time, whether or not he holds valid certificates authorizing him to perform the duties of those crewmembers.
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I'd love to hear you explain how a 121 definition is relevant at all to part 91 flying?
 
GlennAB1 said:
Not if you come from where I've been for the last 33+ years.
FAR 121.533 -
(d) Each pilot in command of an aircraft is, during flight time, in command of the aircraft and crew and is responsible for the safety of the passengers, crewmembers, cargo, and airplane.

(e) Each pilot in command has full control and authority in the operation of the aircraft, without limitation, over other crewmembers and their duties during flight time, whether or not he holds valid certificates authorizing him to perform the duties of those crewmembers.
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We are talking about student pilots so Part 121 is irrelevant.

You may think that the Pilot in Command must have someone else in the airplane to "command" but that is simply not true.

Pilot in command means the person who:

(1) Has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight;
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GlennAB1 said:
Not if you come from where I've been for the last 33+ years.
FAR 121.533 -
(d) Each pilot in command of an aircraft is, during flight time, in command of the aircraft and crew and is responsible for the safety of the passengers, crewmembers, cargo, and airplane.

(e) Each pilot in command has full control and authority in the operation of the aircraft, without limitation, over other crewmembers and their duties during flight time, whether or not he holds valid certificates authorizing him to perform the duties of those crewmembers.
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That doesn't define or limit definitions of PIC. It just states that the PIC is in command of other crew in 121 ops.
 
GlennAB1 said:
As I've already said, I just think it's funny. When you're by yourself, or the only pilot, "pilot" should suffice, "captain" should suffice, PIC seems unnecessary. That is all. But it is funny how you get riled up over it.
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So, you're okay with being Captain of a C152, but not PIC? That's odd.
 
GlennAB1 said:
As I've already said, I just think it's funny. When you're by yourself, or the only pilot, "pilot" should suffice, "captain" should suffice, PIC seems unnecessary. That is all. But it is funny how you get riled up over it.
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The problem is that we have pilots here who are just learning these things, then you come along and provide your own personal interpretation of PIC, which doesn't square with the definition in the FARs. Next thing you know they'll be spreading the news that "some airline pilot on the internet says..."

But hopefully anyone reading this thread will realize that your interpretation is the way you want it to be, and does not correspond to the definition in the FARs.
 
You guys realize you're being trolled, right? "Funny how you guys get riled up over it" as Glen puts it, is the definition of a troll. One who seeks amusement in riling others up.
 
linuxjim said:
You guys realize you're being trolled, right? "Funny how you guys get riled up over it" as Glen puts it, is the definition of a troll. One who seeks amusement in riling others up.
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I'm not sure anyone is "riled up" though. In that, Glenn has failed. We are only stating the facts.
 
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