RotorAndWing
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There are a couple of places in Asia and India doing this, but it's for local pilots only, no expats.
People actually fall for PTF schemes?
- Thread starter James331
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There are a couple of places in Asia and India doing this, but it's for local pilots only, no expats.
dans2992
En-Route
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So they have low-time locals, but a shortage of high-time locals? That doesn't seem like a problem that will last long......
KSCessnaDriver
Pattern Altitude
Sure, they can put them in the left seat. Look at Lion Air and how many basically brand new 737s they've totaled.
KSCessnaDriver
Pattern Altitude
Nope, mostly people from the locales trying to do things quicker. Or they are sponsored at EagleJet from their host country airline that they then go back to work for.
RotorAndWing
Final Approach
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Actually it will. There is very little GA in Asia, and the military doesn't produce much. Aircraft orders and projections show they can't keep up with qualified pilots.
Are you sure they weren't advertising right seat time for Asian and African pilots?
Look at the weather and infrastructure Lion operates in as well. In fact, their pilots have done very well in a couple of those instances salvaging what could have easily been a tragedy into accident due to skillful piloting and decision making.
That will likely change as China develops its GA/Emergency Services Fleet. That is why they bought Cirrus and Teledyne Continental, when the TD-300 comes to full fruition they'll likely tool up. After a big earthquake a few years ago where they had big issues getting supplies to the victims, they looked at how GA was used to bring critical resources like water, baby formula, and diapers after the Northridge quake and decided they needed to develop a GA fleet and pilots to man it.
Slipkid65
Pre-takeoff checklist
Back in my commuter days (in the early 90's, before they got Barbie Jets and became known as "regionals" 
) the company I worked for got the bright idea to start charging new hires for "training". We were a fairly small TWA (formerly Pan Am Express) feeder in the Northeast. I was there for years before this nonsense started.
They started charging $8500 up front for training fees, and after you passed, you were offered a job. Oh, and they "gave" you a Jetstream type rating........ on you first annual PC ( a year AFTER you were hired). The year delay was there to prevent you from taking your "valuable" type rating (that you just PAID for
) and going elsewhere.
The joke was on the company when after 6 months, they furloughed a bunch of these folks, and told them to pound sand when they demanded their types. The furlough-ees got a class action suit going, and the company ended up "giving" them their types, AND as much training as they needed to get up to speed for the ride. It cost the company a bundle, and any profit from the PFT nonsense was long gone when these folks walked out with their types....
Prior to the PFT BS, our new hires typically had 2-3k hours, with a decent amount of multi and many were ex military. Afterwards, that went down to 3-500 hours TT, often with very little multi time.
Like any group of folks, some were fine, some were not so fine and some were outright horrific. Most figured it out in a few months and a year in, they were as competent as anyone else. Those were some tough months for us line Captains, who were basically flight instructing. We were, for all intents and purposes, doing extended IOE, without the requisite Check Airman creds or pay..
Of course, the junior airplane was the J-3100, which was, by far, the most unstable IFR platform I've ever flown, and was a real handful for a novice pilot. Flying it IFR was like trying to read a newspaper while standing on a bowling ball. It was a great airplane to be flying when you had to do a interview sim rides (not that there were many of those in the early 90's, as NOBODY was hiring!) in anything else. I was never a sharper stick and rudder guy than when I was flying that thing. After 1500 hours in the Jetstream, when I transitioned to the ATR, during the first sim period, I thought that the motion was off in the sim.
With most of the PFT folks, it became a single pilot operation during their first few months in the J-31. I believe in letting new folks make (and learn from) their own mistakes, but sometimes it got so tiring trying to keep up with some of them that it was less work to just fly most of the legs myself when the weather went south.
In a nutshell, instead of getting the best qualified pilots for the job, we got barely qualified pilots with $8500 to burn.
Several of my friends were perfect candidates, needed jobs, and would've breezed through new hire training, but wouldn't, (rightfully, IMHO) pay the $8500.
) the company I worked for got the bright idea to start charging new hires for "training". We were a fairly small TWA (formerly Pan Am Express) feeder in the Northeast. I was there for years before this nonsense started.They started charging $8500 up front for training fees, and after you passed, you were offered a job. Oh, and they "gave" you a Jetstream type rating........ on you first annual PC ( a year AFTER you were hired). The year delay was there to prevent you from taking your "valuable" type rating (that you just PAID for
) and going elsewhere. The joke was on the company when after 6 months, they furloughed a bunch of these folks, and told them to pound sand when they demanded their types. The furlough-ees got a class action suit going, and the company ended up "giving" them their types, AND as much training as they needed to get up to speed for the ride. It cost the company a bundle, and any profit from the PFT nonsense was long gone when these folks walked out with their types....
Prior to the PFT BS, our new hires typically had 2-3k hours, with a decent amount of multi and many were ex military. Afterwards, that went down to 3-500 hours TT, often with very little multi time.
Like any group of folks, some were fine, some were not so fine and some were outright horrific. Most figured it out in a few months and a year in, they were as competent as anyone else. Those were some tough months for us line Captains, who were basically flight instructing. We were, for all intents and purposes, doing extended IOE, without the requisite Check Airman creds or pay..
Of course, the junior airplane was the J-3100, which was, by far, the most unstable IFR platform I've ever flown, and was a real handful for a novice pilot. Flying it IFR was like trying to read a newspaper while standing on a bowling ball. It was a great airplane to be flying when you had to do a interview sim rides (not that there were many of those in the early 90's, as NOBODY was hiring!) in anything else. I was never a sharper stick and rudder guy than when I was flying that thing. After 1500 hours in the Jetstream, when I transitioned to the ATR, during the first sim period, I thought that the motion was off in the sim.
With most of the PFT folks, it became a single pilot operation during their first few months in the J-31. I believe in letting new folks make (and learn from) their own mistakes, but sometimes it got so tiring trying to keep up with some of them that it was less work to just fly most of the legs myself when the weather went south.
In a nutshell, instead of getting the best qualified pilots for the job, we got barely qualified pilots with $8500 to burn.
Several of my friends were perfect candidates, needed jobs, and would've breezed through new hire training, but wouldn't, (rightfully, IMHO) pay the $8500.
RotorAndWing
Final Approach
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The Chinese have an immense military with helicopters and airplanes.
The Chinese interest with GA is purely financial (money). Chinese airspace is still highly controlled and regulated, and is not GA friendly.
Again, you've taken a small snippet of something and tried to spin it to what you want it to say.
Captain
Final Approach
Back in my commuter days (in the early 90's, before they got Barbie Jets and became known as "regionals"
They started charging $8500 up front for training fees, and after you passed, you were offered a job. Oh, and they "gave" you a Jetstream type rating........ on you first annual PC ( a year AFTER you were hired). The year delay was there to prevent you from taking your "valuable" type rating (that you just PAID for
The joke was on the company when after 6 months, they furloughed a bunch of these folks, and told them to pound sand when they demanded their types. The furlough-ees got a class action suit going, and the company ended up "giving" them their types, AND as much training as they needed to get up to speed for the ride. It cost the company a bundle, and any profit from the PFT nonsense was long gone when these folks walked out with their types....
Prior to the PFT BS, our new hires typically had 2-3k hours, with a decent amount of multi and many were ex military. Afterwards, that went down to 3-500 hours TT, often with very little multi time.
Like any group of folks, some were fine, some were not so fine and some were outright horrific. Most figured it out in a few months and a year in, they were as competent as anyone else. Those were some tough months for us line Captains, who were basically flight instructing. We were, for all intents and purposes, doing extended IOE, without the requisite Check Airman creds or pay..
Of course, the junior airplane was the J-3100, which was, by far, the most unstable IFR platform I've ever flown, and was a real handful for a novice pilot. Flying it IFR was like trying to read a newspaper while standing on a bowling ball. It was a great airplane to be flying when you had to do a interview sim rides (not that there were many of those in the early 90's, as NOBODY was hiring!) in anything else. I was never a sharper stick and rudder guy than when I was flying that thing. After 1500 hours in the Jetstream, when I transitioned to the ATR, during the first sim period, I thought that the motion was off in the sim.
With most of the PFT folks, it became a single pilot operation during their first few months in the J-31. I believe in letting new folks make (and learn from) their own mistakes, but sometimes it got so tiring trying to keep up with some of them that it was less work to just fly most of the legs myself when the weather went south.
In a nutshell, instead of getting the best qualified pilots for the job, we got barely qualified pilots with $8500 to burn.
Several of my friends were perfect candidates, needed jobs, and would've breezed through new hire training, but wouldn't, (rightfully, IMHO) pay the $8500.
Regional airlines didn't become regional airlines because of the CRJ and ERJ. They were called regional airlines way before regional jets were invented. In fact, regional jets had the word regional in the name as a marketing ploy for main line to sell their pilots.
Regional airlines are called that DESPITE the name in the plane that travels across vast regions.
What airline, btw? Story sounds like ACA but then you talk about TWA and ACA never served them.
Slipkid65
Pre-takeoff checklist
Maybe they were, but I don't remember commuters being referred to as "regionals" until the RJ debacle reared it's ugly head, and I was a commuter pilot for over 10 years....
Yeah, the term "regional" is pretty inaccurate nowadays, unless you count the entire country as a "region". Good thing the big guys were too short sighted to realize the value of good scope language, or else most of these PFT guys would be stuck flying turboprops less than 500 miles per leg!
It was originally Ransome, then Pan Am Express, which was a wholly owned subsidiary of Pan Am, and even had a flow through agreement, which was awesome, right until they went TU. I was interviewed and hired by Pan Am, and was given a choice of being a back seater at the mainline, or a front seat at the commuter. We became Trans World Express when Icahn bought us the day Pan Am went out of business, partly to be used as leverage against the TWA pilots ("MD80 for $80K"). It beat unemployment at a time when there were few airlines hiring, but basically, TWE sucked. Pan Am Express was actually a decent job, and since we all had seniority numbers with the mainline, very few of us left. That setup SHOULD have been emulated by the rest of the industry, as it negated many of the issues with scope that have eviscerated much of the career.
When Delta bought Pan Am, we were gonna be run as part of Bus Ex, and even negotiated a contract with them.
I stepped off the sinking TWE ship for DHL, and then a few months later, for my current airline, and have been here 19 years.
The PFT BS started at TWE. The company only lasted for about 3 years after that, when Trans States took over our "region".
PFT was not the entire reason for TWE's demise, but it had to be a contributing factor, as, with pretty much everything else they did, they even managed to screw up a program where people PAID for their jobs!!!