Penn State Child Sex Abuse Scandal

Geico266 said:
It is interesting to me that Penn State is cleaning house, but yet in the same area in Pennsylvania there are 23 priests convicted of child molestation that are still with the Catholic Church. We seem to be outraged at Penn St (rightfully so) but have become accustom to and accepting of the Catholic Church pedifiles who suffered no jail time and are free to offend again. The cover up within the Catholic Church is 1,000 times worse than Penn St.
Click to expand...

Roger that.

Both are ideologically driven institutions, one is just bigger than the other.
 
Geico266 said:
It is interesting to me that Penn State is cleaning house, but yet in the same area in Pennsylvania there are 23 priests convicted of child molestation that are still with the Catholic Church. We seem to be outraged at Penn St (rightfully so) but have become accustom to and accepting of the Catholic Church pedifiles who suffered no jail time and are free to offend again. The cover up within the Catholic Church is 1,000 times worse than Penn St.
Click to expand...

My take...

I don't care who you are, or who you work for. If you molest a child, there is only one suitable punishment: death. Whether it's a priest, neighborhood creep, coach, whatever, it typically starts out as gaining the child's trust and going from there. Otherwise, it starts as kidnapping or something else of the like. In any case, the appropriate punishment is the same.

There are people who have no place in society and need to be forcibly removed from it. While my preference would be for it to be slow and painful (to which some point out that child molesters are at the bottom of the totem pole in prison), the potential for repeat offenses are 0% with someone who's dead. When someone is in prison, they always have the potential to be released. Especially these days with overcrowded prisons.

Administrators who hide these acts need to be punished as well, but the focus needs to be first and foremost on the people who commit the crimes. I hear tons of complaints about JoPa (who I see as someone stuck in the middle of a rotten situation), but comparatively few calling for the swift collection of evidence and trial of the man responsible in the first place! Why isn't everyone clamoring about that, and then focus on the administration that may or may not have done enough? I'm not saying that I think Penn State's administration did or did not do enough. What I am saying is we need to see the man responsible in the first place brought to justice. Hold the administration accountable, but maintain an appropriate order of priorities.

By the way, from my house I can about hear the riots in State College...
 
Ted DuPuis said:
That is my question. I agree that the higher ups need to be fired, but I am wondering why people aren't castrating the guy who actually did the acts, and pounding on the door of the person who witnessed the acts and didn't do much. JoPa is stuck in the middle and, while I agree he should've done more, is getting unfairly focused on when compared to other people who should be held much more accountable.
Click to expand...
Well the Sandusky guy is in jail right now and has been charged. It is not like he is running around scot free.

As for the witness I heard today that he is being threatened with death. Not right IMHO. But he is also still employed which is also not right IMHO based on what the school has done to others that had knowledge of the acts. The witness does deserve to be fired because not only did he not immediately report the sex abuse, he continued to work with Sandusky after he had seen the abuse and knew Sandusky was not being charged.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
My take...

I don't care who you are, or who you work for. If you molest a child, there is only one suitable punishment: death. Whether it's a priest, neighborhood creep, coach, whatever, it typically starts out as gaining the child's trust and going from there. Otherwise, it starts as kidnapping or something else of the like. In any case, the appropriate punishment is the same.

There are people who have no place in society and need to be forcibly removed from it. While my preference would be for it to be slow and painful (to which some point out that child molesters are at the bottom of the totem pole in prison), the potential for repeat offenses are 0% with someone who's dead. When someone is in prison, they always have the potential to be released. Especially these days with overcrowded prisons.

Administrators who hide these acts need to be punished as well, but the focus needs to be first and foremost on the people who commit the crimes. I hear tons of complaints about JoPa (who I see as someone stuck in the middle of a rotten situation), but comparatively few calling for the swift collection of evidence and trial of the man responsible in the first place! Why isn't everyone clamoring about that, and then focus on the administration that may or may not have done enough? I'm not saying that I think Penn State's administration did or did not do enough. What I am saying is we need to see the man responsible in the first place brought to justice. Hold the administration accountable, but maintain an appropriate order of priorities.

By the way, from my house I can about hear the riots in State College...
Click to expand...

I hear tons of complaints about JoPa (who I see as someone stuck in the middle of a rotten situation), but comparatively few calling for the swift collection of evidence and trial of the man responsible in the first place!

that's pretty weak...leaders don't get stuck in the "middle of a rotten situation" ... short of the actual molester, Jo Pa--or whatever you guys call him is as culpable in this as anyone else , more so really... he was the "leader" of that campus
 
Last edited:
ScottM said:
Well the Sandusky guy is in jail right now and has been charged. It is not like he is running around scot free.
Click to expand...

So that means he's done and we should move onto others?

As for the witness I heard today that he is being threatened with death. Not right IMHO. But he is also still employed which is also not right IMHO based on what the school has done to others that had knowledge of the acts. The witness does deserve to be fired because not only did he not immediately report the sex abuse, he continued to work with Sandusky after he had seen the abuse and knew Sandusky was not being charged.
Click to expand...

I agree the witness shouldn't be given death threats. But, he didn't do what people expect. I agree there. The school should fire him and, if there are criminal charges, they should be handled appropriately.

Rugbydude said:
that's pretty weak...leaders don't get stuck in the "middle of a rotten situation" ... short of the actual molester, Jo Pa--or whatever you guys call him is as culpable in this as anyone else , more so really... he was the "leader" of that campus
Click to expand...

I'd say leaders have it worse there because they can get stuck in situations caused by someone else. Yes, they're leaders, they're supposed to handle it. That doesn't make it less aggravating. The problem is JoPa was viewed as the campus leader, but his bosses I'm sure felt very differently.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have done more. I do agree that he didn't do what he should have, and neither did the witness (who I'd hold more accountable here), and JoPa's boss (also more accountable). As Wayne said, he followed the system, and the system failed him. He should've done more, but I'm far more concerned with Sandusky's trial and execution.
 
wabower said:
My definintion of rational means that "ready-aim-fire" should be kept in proper sequence. That hasn't happened in this case. The shooting has started, and now they're just drawing bulls-eyes around the bullet holes.

Does anybody purport to know the details of Paterno's interaction(s) with the AD or others in the PSU administration? Would that be relevant to you if you were involved in this case? If someone on your staff reports an incident to you, or refers it to you for handling, should they be justified to think that you will in fact take care of it rather than sweeping it under the rug?

If the AD said "Thanks for the report, Joe, you've done what you should do. This is obviously a very serious and sensitive issue that should be handled at the university level, and we'll take if from here" what would that mean to you if you were Joe?

I've been a college football coach, a corner-office guy and commish of a 150-man police department. As a result I have some experience with these cases, and know the level of confidentiality that is involved in the investigations.

Within the past week I've also seen and read about a guy in Dallas who was exonerated last week after serving 20 years for alleged sexual abuse that was later recanted by the alleged victim.

I'm not carrying water for Joe, I've just seen too many lynch-mobs in action to go along with another one. Get the facts, dig as deep as necessary to learn the truth, then take action.
Click to expand...

of course your not carrying the water for "Joe" ... most people see what is going on... Paterno, the "leader" of this campus had knowledge of the molester Sandusky committing his crimes on campus no less...and, Paterno didn't have the moral courage to go to the police... it is really not that complicated as a scenario as you seem to want to make it out to be ... Paterno was given an eyewitness accounting of the criminal conduct by his former coach (a coach that already had a history of misconduct with minors that Paterno was aware of) and Paterno failed to get the proper authorities involved...simple passing up the problem to his AD (one of his former QBs no less) and then going back to his Xs and Os on how to beat his next opponent doesn't cut it when you have a statute of yourself outside the stadium
 
Last edited:
Ted DuPuis said:
So that means he's done and we should move onto others?



I agree the witness shouldn't be given death threats. But, he didn't do what people expect. I agree there. The school should fire him and, if there are criminal charges, they should be handled appropriately.



I'd say leaders have it worse there because they can get stuck in situations caused by someone else. Yes, they're leaders, they're supposed to handle it. That doesn't make it less aggravating. The problem is JoPa was viewed as the campus leader, but his bosses I'm sure felt very differently.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have done more. I do agree that he didn't do what he should have, and neither did the witness (who I'd hold more accountable here), and JoPa's boss (also more accountable). As Wayne said, he followed the system, and the system failed him. He should've done more, but I'm far more concerned with Sandusky's trial and execution.
Click to expand...

yep, had to go back to see what Wayne said, so I did... guess what you guys are missing from my perspective is that Paterno didn't have any bosses on campus...even if the system may have failed Paterno-which is an odd take-but then what should he do? ...if Paterno was half the leader he claimed to be he would have gone to the authorities... Paterno failed the future victims of Sandusky because Paterno didn't have the moral courage to step up... tough words, but true...
 
Last edited:
ScottM said:
Well the Sandusky guy is in jail right now and has been charged. It is not like he is running around scot free.

.....
Click to expand...


Did they arrest him again? He was released on an unsecured 100K bail fairly fast.

Instead, District Judge Leslie Dutchcot ordered Sandusky freed on $100,000 unsecured bail -- meaning he won't have to post any money unless he doesn't show up for court. She also ordered him to have no contact with children.
Click to expand...
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/sandusky_could_face_life_in_pr.html
 
I love how America consists of one gigantic ----ing blame game. Somebody's gotta pay, dammit. More bars, more guards; no need to deal with prevention, so long as we can punish the symptoms after they've occurred.

Let's just make everything bad a crime.
 
Last edited:
bartmc said:
That's not my fault :rofl:
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong - retribution, revenge, etc., aren't bad things. Presuming what's-his-name is actually guilty (I sure do hope I'm never charged with anything, as apparently all that needs to happen for a determination of guilt is for a newspaper to publish something saying I'm guilty), I don't have a problem with severe punishment for him.

But, in the setting of things like child abuse, child molestation, and child pornography, it's closing the door after the cows get out. At absolute best, all it does is prevent one particular person from abusing any more children. Granted, that's certainly a valid objective, but what about the other 90% that don't get caught?

These kind of crimes are the result of some kind of ----ed up wiring in the brain. Which means that rational concepts like "maybe I'll get caught in 15 years, so maybe I should refrain from this activity" simply don't play a role.

This is the American approach to things that are "bad," though. We really see it in two areas: law and medicine. Proactive and preventative approaches are frowned on. In the law, it makes you a "*****" if you suggest addressing something like DUI's by addressing alcohol addiction before somebody gets killed (even though it's been proven time and again that by doing so the risk of a repeat DUI'er are drastically reduced). No, the answer is "these people must be punished even more severely, and if that doesn't work, we'll increase the penalties, and that will surely work!" More witches!!!!!!

Rabble. Rabble rabble rabble.
 
Last edited:
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
Don't get me wrong - retribution, revenge, etc., aren't bad things. Presuming what's-his-name is actually guilty (I sure do hope I'm never charged with anything, as apparently all that needs to happen for a determination of guilt is for a newspaper to publish something saying I'm guilty), I don't have a problem with severe punishment for him.

But, in the setting of things like child abuse, child molestation, and child pornography, it's closing the door after the cows get out. At absolute best, all it does is prevent one particular person from abusing any more children. Granted, that's certainly a valid objective, but what about the other 90% that don't get caught?

These kind of crimes are the result of some kind of ----ed up wiring in the brain. Which means that rational concepts like "maybe I'll get caught in 15 years, so maybe I should refrain from this activity" simply don't play a role.

This is the American approach to things that are "bad," though. We really see it in two areas: law and medicine. Proactive and preventative approaches are frowned on. In the law, it makes you a "*****" if you suggest addressing something like DUI's by addressing alcohol addiction before somebody gets killed (even though it's been proven time and again that by doing so the risk of a repeat DUI'er are drastically reduced). No, the answer is "these people must be punished even more severely, and if that doesn't work, we'll increase the penalties, and that will surely work!" More witches!!!!!!

Rabble. Rabble rabble rabble.
Click to expand...

I agree 100% you must have been around for one of my rants
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
I love how America consists of one gigantic ----ing blame game. Somebody's gotta pay, dammit. More bars, more guards; no need to deal with prevention, so long as we can punish the symptoms after they've occurred.

Let's just make everything bad a crime.
Click to expand...
Thread drift but interesting article.

The Brain on Trial
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
But, in the setting of things like child abuse, child molestation, and child pornography, it's closing the door after the cows get out. At absolute best, all it does is prevent one particular person from abusing any more children. Granted, that's certainly a valid objective, but what about the other 90% that don't get caught?
Click to expand...

Sorry, but it ain't so.

Accessibility, approval, and reduced societal safeguards all contribute to the fostering of this sort of behavior.

Read Pornified: How Pornography Is Transforming Our Lives, Our Relationships, and Our Families by Pamela Paul.

She's no Right Wing Zealot (by a long shot -- here's her bio:

Paul began her writing career as a London- and New York-based correspondent for The Economist, where for four years she wrote a monthly column on world arts trends, and contributed film, theatre, and book reviews between 1997 and 2003. She was previously a senior editor for American Demographics magazine, where she wrote about political opinion, and social, media and demographic trends. She currently writes for Time magazine and is a frequent contributor to The New York Times Book Review. Her work has also appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The National Post, Psychology Today, Self, Ladies' Home Journal, Redbook, More, The Brown Alumni Monthly, 02138, The New York Sun, and Marie Claire. Online, she has written for Slate, Salon, and Inside.com, and she blogs at The Huffington Post. A frequent public speaker, Paul has also been a guest on Oprah, Good Morning America, The Today Show, The Early Show, and Politically Incorrect, and has made regular appearances on CNN, Fox News, and MSNBC, and on National Public Radio.
Click to expand...
 
dmccormack said:
Sorry, but it ain't so.

Accessibility, approval, and reduced societal safeguards all contribute to the fostering of this sort of behavior.

Read Pornified: How Pornography Is Transforming Our Lives, Our Relationships, and Our Families by Pamela Paul.

She's no Right Wing Zealot (by a long shot -- here's her bio:
Click to expand...

A number of the big church related pedophilia cases reach back into the 50s and 60s. Some things we just can't blame on VHS and the internet. There is a percentage of people with the brain wired together the wrong way, neither prayer nor 'talking to' the will fix their f-ed up wiring. They are all serial offenders, there is nothing like screwing your 12 year old niece once and then living happily ever after. The only hope we do have is to get them caught early in their serial offenses and to either keep them locked up for good or permanently treated.
 
dmccormack said:
Sorry, but it ain't so.

Accessibility, approval, and reduced societal safeguards all contribute to the fostering of this sort of behavior.

Read Pornified: How Pornography Is Transforming Our Lives, Our Relationships, and Our Families by Pamela Paul.

She's no Right Wing Zealot (by a long shot -- here's her bio:
Click to expand...

I'm not quite sure I'm following what you're saying. What isn't so?

If you're saying that things like the internet and lack of care or attentiveness from parents/families/whoever play a part, absolutely. Completely agreed.

But, we've made those things illegal, punishable by pretty hefty penalties. And despite that, exploitation of children remains disturbingly common.

I can't tell you what the solution is. I don't know enough about how the brain works to be able to do that. But I can tell you that the solution is not to adopt an approach of "lock 'em up, throw away the key" - all that does is address an occasionally-surfacing-symptom of a disease, rather than its cause. It makes us feel better temporarily, but does nothing to cure what ails us.

This isn't a new problem. It might be easier to engage in certain behaviors now due to technology, but there has been a certain percentage of the population that, for the entirety of time, has been inclined to these sorts of behaviors that can only be called deviant. While that eventually becomes a criminal problem, for reasons of public safety if nothing else, it's really a mental health problem (as a significant portion of all crime is).

Perhaps the worst thing to happen in American society in the last 50 years is the shuttering of the mental hospitals. Yes, they needed to be drastically reformed, but the baby was thrown out with the bathwater. Appropriate treatment can help a lot of these people, and can prevent a massive amount of victimization.
 
Last edited:
steingar said:
Joe Pa is older than Odin. He probably should have retired along about the eighties.
Click to expand...

Yes he is probably getting to old to coach. Oh, by the way his team is 8 wins and 1 loss this year, and currently leading the Big Ten, or whatever it is being called now with a 5 - 0 record. But he is too old to coach.
 
Everskyward said:
Thread drift but interesting article.

The Brain on Trial
Click to expand...

I don't have time to read the whole article right now, but if I'm guessing correctly, it's saying that miswirings in the brain, rather than "unadulterated evil," is behind a significant part of crime.

And if you go watch a few days of criminal court in any area, rural or urban, rich or poor, across any distinctions you want to draw, you'll see people who "aren't quite right." Not to the level of absolute dysfunction - these people can feed themselves, drive, balance a checkbook, etc. - but you can tell that things aren't firing quite right upstairs.

That's not to say that behavior can or should be excused. Society has both the right and the duty to protect itself from those that would harm it.

But where the real fruit of that knowledge may lie is in prevention.

I'm not talking about things like that stupid movie with Tom Cruise. I'm talking about people like teachers or coaches or Boy Scout leaders noticing the little signs and perhaps nipping a problem in the bud.

Again, I just don't know enough about brain matter to really be able to discuss this. But I do know that these are things that absolutely should be looked into, for our collective well-being.
 
Bob Bement said:
Yes he is probably getting to old to coach. Oh, by the way his team is 8 wins and 1 loss this year, and currently leading the Big Ten, or whatever it is being called now with a 5 - 0 record. But he is too old to coach.
Click to expand...

ehhh.... But they play in the Big 10 pretty weak conference, he'd be 0-6 in SEC play :devil: Where'd that one loss come from?
 
bartmc said:
ehhh.... But they play in the Big 10 pretty weak conference, he'd be 0-6 in SEC play :devil: Where'd that one loss come from?
Click to expand...

I don't know as the SEC is that strong, didn't Boise state beat one of them?
 
You might want to include aviation in your list of body-count industries. Another attempt at addressing the fatigue issues has fallen to the airline lobby's bitching about the cost of doing it right.

Obi Heed Kenobi said:
This is the American approach to things that are "bad," though. We really see it in two areas: law and medicine. Proactive and preventative approaches are frowned on. In the law, it makes you a "*****" if you suggest addressing something like DUI's by addressing alcohol addiction before somebody gets killed (even though it's been proven time and again that by doing so the risk of a repeat DUI'er are drastically reduced). No, the answer is "these people must be punished even more severely, and if that doesn't work, we'll increase the penalties, and that will surely work!" More witches!!!!!!

Rabble. Rabble rabble rabble.
Click to expand...
 
I'll call any bet you want to make about whether the football coach reports to the AD on the PSU org chart. Let me know.

Without some evidence to the contrary (and I haven't read all the available information and don't intend to do so) I don't accept the lack of moral courage argument. The fact that some people don't understand the complexities of this deal doesn't mean it's a slam dunk as to what a guy who gets second-hand information about this alleged event should do and how he should do it.

What's the proper protocol for notifying authorities? Call 911? Is something that happened yesterday an emergency? Call the non-emergency number? Call child protective services? Who should do it, the witness, the head coach or the AD?

Does any college football program have a legal advisor on staff? Mine didn't. If not, should PSU legal counsel know of the problem and be asked for input? If so, when? Before or after the call is made to whomever you're supposed to call?

Where did the alleged event occur? Does the University have a dog in this fight? Should they be in the loop? When?

Did Joe get (or ask for) a detailed description of the event? How much detail did he request? How much would you have requested? Was Joe totally blind-sided by this report and uncertain and/or confused about what was required?

I've personally seen it happen at the AD level, while eating a hot-dog in the clubhouse at the Citrus golf club in La Quinta CA. The AD of a western-division SEC school was in the foursome behind us, and when he made the turn the pro advised him that he had an urgent call and could take it in his office. The office didn't have a door and it wouldn't have mattered anyway as the guy responded to and discussed some player/faculty news that wasn't as bad as the PSU mess but wasn't far removed. As he later described it, "we're accustomed to dealing with the 'parking ticket' problems that are daily issues for our staff. When one of these 'hit-and-run' problems occurs, we can be totally caught by surprise and have to figure it out on the fly."

I heard a radio talk show tonight that suggested that the entire report was fabricated, with enough supporting evidence to present a credibile case. Evidently the alleged victim has never been identified and has not come forward. Other people were reportedly in the area at the same time, and nobody else saw the perp or the victim.

Can you totally discount this theory?

Rugbydude said:
yep, had to go back to see what Wayne said, so I did... guess what you guys are missing from my perspective is that Paterno didn't have any bosses on campus...even if the system may have failed Paterno-which is an odd take-but then what should he do? ...if Paterno was half the leader he claimed to be he would have gone to the authorities... Paterno failed the future victims of Sandusky because Paterno didn't have the moral courage to step up... tough words, but true...
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
What's the proper protocol for notifying authorities? Call 911? Is something that happened yesterday an emergency? Call the non-emergency number? Call child protective services? Who should do it, the witness, the head coach or the AD?
Click to expand...

E. [ ] All of the above.


Does any college football program have a legal advisor on staff? Mine didn't. If not, should PSU legal counsel know of the problem and be asked for input? If so, when? Before or after the call is made to whomever you're supposed to call?
Click to expand...

The law does not specify a step of 'only if your companies counsel approves'.

Evidently the alleged victim has never been identified and has not come forward. Other people were reportedly in the area at the same time, and nobody else saw the perp or the victim.

Can you totally discount this theory?
Click to expand...

No big suprise that the victim is difficult to identify 9 years later when at the time everyone was doing their best to avoid an investigation.

While that incident seems to be the most egregious one, it is one of a series over a long period of time, more than one witnessed by otherwise unrelated adults. Nothing is ever 'total', but in this particular case I would put the odds rather low for it being baselsess. This is not like some of the childcare abuse cases where some dedicated social workers or 'advocates' manage to whip the entire place into a frenzy and create victims that were never even close to the facility in question.
 
How many kids would Joe have endangered if he walked down the hall to the AD's office and said "We may have a real problem on our hands. One of the assistants just walked into my office and told me that he caught Sandusky in the shower with what looked like a little kid. I'm not sure what to do next. I was so shook up I don't even know for sure what he told me, but it sounded real bad when I heard it. Should I call the police, CPS, or what? I'm over my head and will do whatever I'm supposed to do, but we must obviously do something about it."



weilke said:
E. [ ] All of the above.




The law does not specify a step of 'only if your companies counsel approves'.



No big suprise that the victim is difficult to identify 9 years later when at the time everyone was doing their best to avoid an investigation.

While that incident seems to be the most egregious one, it is one of a series over a long period of time, more than one witnessed by otherwise unrelated adults. Nothing is ever 'total', but in this particular case I would put the odds rather low for it being baselsess. This is not like some of the childcare abuse cases where some dedicated social workers or 'advocates' manage to whip the entire place into a frenzy and create victims that were never even close to the facility in question.
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
I'll call any bet you want to make about whether the football coach reports to the AD on the PSU org chart. Let me know.

Without some evidence to the contrary (and I haven't read all the available information and don't intend to do so) I don't accept the lack of moral courage argument. The fact that some people don't understand the complexities of this deal doesn't mean it's a slam dunk as to what a guy who gets second-hand information about this alleged event should do and how he should do it.

What's the proper protocol for notifying authorities? Call 911? Is something that happened yesterday an emergency? Call the non-emergency number? Call child protective services? Who should do it, the witness, the head coach or the AD?

Does any college football program have a legal advisor on staff? Mine didn't. If not, should PSU legal counsel know of the problem and be asked for input? If so, when? Before or after the call is made to whomever you're supposed to call?

Where did the alleged event occur? Does the University have a dog in this fight? Should they be in the loop? When?

Did Joe get (or ask for) a detailed description of the event? How much detail did he request? How much would you have requested? Was Joe totally blind-sided by this report and uncertain and/or confused about what was required?

I've personally seen it happen at the AD level, while eating a hot-dog in the clubhouse at the Citrus golf club in La Quinta CA. The AD of a western-division SEC school was in the foursome behind us, and when he made the turn the pro advised him that he had an urgent call and could take it in his office. The office didn't have a door and it wouldn't have mattered anyway as the guy responded to and discussed some player/faculty news that wasn't as bad as the PSU mess but wasn't far removed. As he later described it, "we're accustomed to dealing with the 'parking ticket' problems that are daily issues for our staff. When one of these 'hit-and-run' problems occurs, we can be totally caught by surprise and have to figure it out on the fly."

I heard a radio talk show tonight that suggested that the entire report was fabricated, with enough supporting evidence to present a credibile case. Evidently the alleged victim has never been identified and has not come forward. Other people were reportedly in the area at the same time, and nobody else saw the perp or the victim.

Can you totally discount this theory?
Click to expand...

I'd be curious of your opinion after you read the extensive grand jury report which is readily available on the net...and, true, the coach probably reports to the AD on the organizational chart, but you have to factor in the equation in this situation that Paterno is well known to have called all the shots on campus...not to mention that Paterno already knew of the 98 shower incident with Sandusky when the 2002 incident came up...this will all get much worse than better, esp. when the civil law suits shed more light on the situation

...if Paterno didn't show a lack of "moral courage" I'm at a loss of words of how else to describe his conduct...from Paterno's own testimony he was presented with info from his graduate assistant (a former QB no less that started for Paterno, team captain as I recall) that Sandusky was in the shower with a ten year old doing something inappropriate of a sexual nature...and what does Paterno do--he makes a call to the AD, has a meeting, and then goes about his business...and now Paterno says with "hindsight" he could have done more...
 
Last edited:
wsuffa said:
Many employers will not even consider hiring anyone with any blemish on their records. A smaller percentage will not hire anyone with even an arrest on the record.

As many as 80% of employers report running background checks on prospective employees.
Click to expand...

I'm aware of that. They can also choose not to hire you if you favor wearing plaid, or wear white shoes after Labor Day, or use a Sears Roebuck mower on your quarter acre of backyard paradise instead of John Deere.

Employment is market-driven. As long as there are plenty of qualified candidates without blemishes, blemishes will be disqualifying. If there's a shortage of candidates, then the standards change. And if someone is a true standout, then those blemishes may be accepted.

Kinda like the airlines.... HEY, we made this aviation-related after all!
Click to expand...
Or certain branches of the US military.
 
About an hour from my house, people are getting ready for the Huskers to win.

You couldn't pay me to be there.
 
alaskaflyer said:
I'm aware of that. They can also choose not to hire you if you favor wearing plaid, or wear white shoes after Labor Day, or use a Sears Roebuck mower on your quarter acre of backyard paradise instead of John Deere.
Click to expand...

What's your point? Breaking the law, and having a record is the same as the above? It is a real issue, and will knock you out of the possibility of getting hired. But as a LEO, that's OK to you?

One more thing, while I have a lot more than a quater acre, I think some do consider that a "backyard paradise", or are you just taking a shot at the American dream?
 
Ted DuPuis said:
About an hour from my house, people are getting ready for the Huskers to win.

You couldn't pay me to be there.
Click to expand...

I hope the Penn state fans behave themselves. They have a horrible reputation as fans that is well deserved by their actions in the past. They need to learn the meaning of "class act".
 
Last edited:
Geico266 said:
I hope the Penn state fans behave themselves. They have a horrible reputation as fans. They need to learn the meaning of "class act".
Click to expand...


While I'm a PA native, I've never been enamored with Penn State. When I lived in central PA for a while, you'd think it was the state religion or something. I never understood the attraction, nor the fanatical following. I think those people need to get a life.

Now we find out that this is only the tip of the iceberg, and that the university covered up many player indiscretions over the years.
 
Anthony said:
While I'm a PA native, I've never been enamored with Penn State. When I lived in central PA for a while, you'd think it was the state religion or something. I never understood the attraction, nor the fanatical following. I think those people need to get a life.
Click to expand...

I fully agree. I've been here 5 years, and had never heard any of this before moving here. Of course, I'm not much of a football person. I just don't get it.

Now we find out that this is only the tip of the iceberg, and that the university covered up many player indiscretions over the years.
Click to expand...

That is not a surprise. College administrations want to sweep things under the rug in general as a means of protecting the school's image.

One of my friends was killed at Virginia Tech back in the '07 shootings. The fact that the school could have prevented that massacre so easily but chose to do nothing is what burns me the most to this day. The school just responded with things to make themselves look better, without helping the family or making any real changes.
 
Anthony said:
While I'm a PA native, I've never been enamored with Penn State. When I lived in central PA for a while, you'd think it was the state religion or something. I never understood the attraction, nor the fanatical following. I think those people need to get a life.

Now we find out that this is only the tip of the iceberg, and that the university covered up many player indiscretions over the years.
Click to expand...

Penn state or football? I pretty much can't stand football. I can think of few things that are more of a waste of time. I've been in boxes/suites even and couldn't begin to tell you what the fuss is about. Super bowl is all about food/beer/socializing. The end.

Ps. Not ignoring the content of the thread. What happened was heinous (and that's putting it mildly).
 
Last edited:
Ted DuPuis said:
I fully agree. I've been here 5 years, and had never heard any of this before moving here. Of course, I'm not much of a football person. I just don't get it.



That is not a surprise. College administrations want to sweep things under the rug in general as a means of protecting the school's image.

One of my friends was killed at Virginia Tech back in the '07 shootings. The fact that the school could have prevented that massacre so easily but chose to do nothing is what burns me the most to this day. The school just responded with things to make themselves look better, without helping the family or making any real changes.
Click to expand...

Damn. I'm sorry Ted.
 
According to the grand jury here is how McQueary’s eyewitness account became watered down at each stage:
McQueary: Reported anal rape.
Paterno: something of a sexual nature.
Schultz: inappropriately grabbing of the young boy’s genitals.
Curley: inappropriate conduct or horsing around.
Spanier: conduct that made someone uncomfortable.
Raykovitz: a ban on bringing kids to the locker room.

Another good time line of the grand jury info.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/who_knew_what_about_jerry_sand.html
 
Last edited:
I have longtime friends that both went to Penn State and are HUGE Penn State football fans. They even missed my first wedding due to a Penn State game. I think I'll call them, and chant.....WE ARE PENN STATE, WE ARE PENN STATE.

Losers.
 
Anthony said:
you'd think it was the state religion or something. I never understood the attraction, nor the fanatical following. I think those people need to get a life.
Click to expand...

It's not just Penn St. It's Alabama, Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Arkansas, Kansas, etc., etc., etc.

A significant portion of this country's inhabitants have extremely screwed up priorities. IMO anyway...because you can put me on the "I just don't get it" side of the street.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top