Pencil-Whipped Annuals

[JB1842]

So, since my 150 is still in the shop getting repaired for my landing mishap, there have been a few other issues that have been found. That's not a surprise to me, as an owner I expect to pay money to fix stuff, but it's what the issues are. Brake pads below the minimum allowed, belly fuel drain that was broken and the tanks had contaminated fuel, and a few other smaller things. I can't complain too much because I won the plane and didn't pay for the last annual, but it makes me wonder what else was skipped on the annual inspection they did before the delivery. There is only around 20 hours since the annual. Are there really some AP's and IA's that are that incompetent, or too lazy to do the job right? Anybody else experience this same thing?This is more of a venting post, but jeez, my life depends on having an airworthy aircraft.

 

[wsuffa]

I can't complain too much because I won the plane and didn't pay for the last annual, but it makes me wonder what else was skipped on the annual inspection they did before the delivery.

They were working for the seller (or gifter, in your case), not for you.

Some may have been a judgement call - brake pads at minimum then, now below min as a result of training - some may have been missed. I can tell you that some IAs can be really nitpicky & flag items that are not really issues that need to be repaired *now* (one that comes to mind is an IA that flagged something on my plane as being a "problem" but when questioned he said that it wouldn't be below limits or an airworthy problem for a couple of years).

Not sure what you mean by "contaminated fuel" - is it something that was sumped & could have been caught during preflight? Or did they find autogas in the tank (which might have been covered with an STC?

 

[docmirror]

Oh yeah. I bought a Grumman AA5 that had been whipped for several years. It took me a good week to discover all the little gotchas.

 

[JB1842]

Not sure what you mean by "contaminated fuel" - is it something that was sumped & could have been caught during preflight? Or did they find autogas in the tank (which might have been covered with an STC?

My mechanic said it was contaminated fuel that would have been found if the belly drain wasn't all messed up. I'm not sure what he meant by contaminated. They had to replace a fuel line becuase according to him it was leaking for a long time (was stained blue) and it was too long, but then found a bad o-ring in the fuel selector. When they drained the fuel to fix the o-ring, the contaminated fuel in the bottom of the plane came out. I do not have the autogas STC, but I plan on getting it in the future.

 

[JB1842]

They were working for the seller (or gifter, in your case), not for you.

I think there was a reason the previous owner donated it to charity. According to the logs, a lot of work was done to get it airworthy, and they probably ran out of money or patience. There are some things that can wait to fix, but the amount of overall issues is a bit of a surprise. The mechanic said there was a lot of "goofy" stuff done to the plane. The engine pre-heater was wired weird, the taxi light was wired to the landing light, etc. He's making a list of repairs for the insurance, one for the stuff I want him to fix now, and a list of recommended fixes that can wait or aren't airworthy items.

 

[bnt83]

Some of those drain plugs in the fuel selector valves have never been removed, and yes can hold contaminants.

BTW, its realy hard to say if the contamination occured after the annual or was there the whole time.

The fuel line was probably the hose from th efirewall to the carb, that hasn't been replaced for 30 years.

Brakes are what they are. If they are just barely under, they could have been within at annual.

 

[AggieMike88]

All the more reason for doing a pre-buy inspection done by your mechanic. Helps find those things before you're financially attached to the aircraft.

 

[weirdjim]

So, since my 150 is still in the shop getting repaired for my landing mishap,

That happens. Sorry it happened to you. You might explain the extent of the incident and the damage. You might also consider a couple of hours of dual just to shake the cobwebs around a little.

there have been a few other issues that have been found. That's not a surprise to me, as an owner I expect to pay money to fix stuff, but it's what the issues are. Brake pads below the minimum allowed

By whose definition? If you have the Cleveland wheels, Cessna says that brake pads less than 3/32" are worn past service limits. We generally measure those with a digital caliper (or in the boonies, a drill bit will do for comparison). What thickness are your "worn" pads? Do NOT come back and tell us the shop wouldn't give them to you.

, belly fuel drain that was broken

WHAT belly fuel drain? Are you talking about the gasculator drain on the firewall? I'm surprised you didn't find that one on your first test flight. That IS part of the preflight, as I recall.

and the tanks had contaminated fuel,

Which can happen at any time in the process, either before or after you got the aircraft.

and a few other smaller things. I can't complain too much because I won the plane and didn't pay for the last annual, but it makes me wonder what else was skipped on the annual inspection they did before the delivery.

Sonny boy, you had best find out way early in the game that there is only one person vitally concerned with your butt in the left front seat, and that person is attached to that butt.

Nobody intentionally "skips" stuff on an annual. Stuff happens from time to time and your attitude that it is always the mechanic's fault makes me REAL happy that I'm not doing your annual.

There is only around 20 hours since the annual. Are there really some AP's and IA's that are that incompetent, or too lazy to do the job right? Anybody else experience this same thing?This is more of a venting post, but jeez, my life depends on having an airworthy aircraft.

Sure, just like there are some doctors that cheated their way through med school. Your job is to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Me? I'd find out REAL QUICK if there is a mechanic/IA that lets you do owner-assisted annuals and get your whiny attitude under control before you find one. We are few and far between, and we don't stand for much bushwa while doing the job.

.....

 

[Tom-D]

I am doing the first annual for a new owner of a 1993 American Champion 8KAB, the brake pads are gone, yes worn thru the rivets and the linings are gone, and the disks are ruined. That doesn't happen in the 50+ hours he has owned the aircraft.

I don't believe the wheel pants have ever been off this aircraft.

pictures

 

[JB1842]

All the more reason for doing a pre-buy inspection done by your mechanic. Helps find those things before you're financially attached to the aircraft.

Agree, but I won the plane. No pre-buy. I don't want to sound ungrateful for the opportunity to own a plane for a $50 raffle ticket, but it makes me wonder about other stuff that could be wrong. Overall, I'm very happy with the condition of the plane. I knew going in it wouldn't be a fully restored aircraft, but when I think of a fresh annual, I think they would have done more than change the oil and sign the logbooks.

 

[Tom-D]

..By whose definition? If you have the Cleveland wheels, Cessna says that brake pads less than 3/32" are worn past service limits. We generally measure those with a digital caliper (or in the boonies, a drill bit will do for comparison). What thickness are your "worn" pads? Do NOT come back and tell us the shop wouldn't give them to you...

By mine, if it worn to the rivet heads we change the pads, you are protecting the disk. you'll find by your method or cessna's that is where it becomes unairworthy.

 

[JB1842]

.....

I'm sorry you feel like I'm whining. I'm not. As I new owner I came here for information and to learn. I'm sorry you are too high up on your horse to see that. I've had both my mechanic (who does allow owner assisted annuals) and the mechanic at the FBO my plane is at (not my own field) both tell me that they are surprised the annual was signed off with what was found. They both said these were issues that just didn't happen. I think I'll take their opinion over yours.

 

[bnt83]

It might help to tell us where the contamination was found and how they found it.

 

[JB1842]

It might help to tell us where the contamination was found.

I'm not sure. I believe it was closer to the belly drain, but don't hold me too it. Maybe the hard landing dislodged some stuff? But I do know the belly drain wasn't working from the time I got it, but it wasn't an airworthy item. I have the 2 wing drains and the one right in front of the firewall.

 

[bnt83]

I'm not sure. I believe it was closer to the belly drain, but don't hold me too it. Maybe the hard landing dislodged some stuff? But I do know the belly drain wasn't working from the time I got it, but it wasn't an airworthy item. I have the 2 wing drains and the one right in front of the firewall.

I think there is a pipe that comes off the bottom of the fuel valve and it's usually capped, but experience has shown that a drain valve really needs to be there.

If they replaced the drain valve I wouldn't be at all shocked if they found some gunk in there.

 

[Tom-D]

I'm sorry you feel like I'm whining. I'm not. As I new owner I came here for information and to learn. I'm sorry you are too high up on your horse to see that. I've had both my mechanic (who does allow owner assisted annuals) and the mechanic at the FBO my plane is at (not my own field) both tell me that they are surprised the annual was signed off with what was found. They both said these were issues that just didn't happen. I think I'll take their opinion over yours.

Develop a thick skin if you participate here. You'll always find a person here that will jump you for the slightest mistake.

 

[bnt83]

I am doing the first annual for a new owner of a 1993 American Champion 8KAB, the brake pads are gone, yes worn thru the rivets and the linings are gone, and the disks are ruined. That doesn't happen in the 50+ hours he has owned the aircraft.

I don't believe the wheel pants have ever been off this aircraft.

pictures

But but but airplanes have squeakers like car brakes right?

 

[bnt83]

What are parts gonna cost on your project Tom? $80 per disk and $40 for all pads? I haven't bought any for a LONG time.

 

[AggieMike88]

Agree, but I won the plane. No pre-buy. I don't want to sound ungrateful for the opportunity to own a plane for a $50 raffle ticket, but it makes me wonder about other stuff that could be wrong. Overall, I'm very happy with the condition of the plane. I knew going in it wouldn't be a fully restored aircraft, but when I think of a fresh annual, I think they would have done more than change the oil and sign the logbooks.

If $50 was all your investment before you were conferred ownership, then I'd count the blessings that is not 100 times that and you're still gonna have a large hit to the wallet to bring it up to standards.

If it were me, I'd have a conversation with my mechanic about developing the list of what needs doing, prioritizing the list, assigning costs (labor and parts), and where it is I can participate to help save a few dollars and learn more about the aircraft. Once the plan is developed, and I can fund it with cash and personal time, then get busy. Desired outcome is an aircraft that I would put anyone near and dear to me in.

Final detail would be a thorough documentation of what was done. Maybe just the synopsis in the logbook, but I'd start my own maintenance binder that had the details and the receipts. This way you can demonstrate to any future buyers that when you got the aircraft, you put right any discrepancies, and were a good steward from then on.

 

[wsuffa]

A couple of thoughts on my annual process:

1) I use a different shop for annuals than I do for routine maintenance.
2) Even the best mechanic at annual can miss something. I think the worst I've encountered was a plastic oil drain tray left in the engine compartment (I caught it on pre-flight), and a shop that shorted the landing light wires. My rule now is that I inspect inside the cowl before it gets closed after annual.
3) Every few years I take mine to someone that "specializes" in the make/model. For a while, that was the factory (now closed), then to someone that maintained 4 other similar planes. This year it's a shop that does a lot of STC and other work on similar airframes (and this year it's costing a bunch of $$$ because a prior mechanic that opened the tanks used the wrong sealant... and that happened before I bought the plane).

 

[JB1842]

Develop a thick skin if you participate here. You'll always find a person here that will jump you for the slightest mistake.

I have thick skin, I'm just in a mood today.

 

[JB1842]

If $50 was all your investment before you were conferred ownership, then I'd count the blessings that is not 100 times that and you're still gonna have a large hit to the wallet to bring it up to standards.

If it were me, I'd have a conversation with my mechanic about developing the list of what needs doing, prioritizing the list, assigning costs (labor and parts), and where it is I can participate to help save a few dollars and learn more about the aircraft. Once the plan is developed, and I can fund it with cash and personal time, then get busy. Desired outcome is an aircraft that I would put anyone near and dear to me in.

Final detail would be a thorough documentation of what was done. Maybe just the synopsis in the logbook, but I'd start my own maintenance binder that had the details and the receipts. This way you can demonstrate to any future buyers that when you got the aircraft, you put right any discrepancies, and were a good steward from then on.

I like those ideas and already have done some of that. I have a lock box I keep all the logs and stuff in. I have all the receipts from the work done by previous owners.

 

[AggieMike88]

I like those ideas and already have done some of that. I have a lock box I keep all the logs and stuff in. I have all the receipts from the work done by previous owners.

Good... because the more you can demonstrate that you and your mech did what was required and more, the better deal you will get when it becomes your turn to be a seller. And less of a beating from the buyer.

 

[JB1842]

Good... because the more you can demonstrate that you and your mech did what was required and more, the better deal you will get when it becomes your turn to be a seller. And less of a beating from the buyer.

No matter what, I think I will be one of the very few people to make a profit if I decide to sell it in the future.

 

[poadeleted20]

In some cases, yes, the IA does a "walk-around" annual and trades his/her signature (and integrity) for $400. In other cases, different IA's are just more familiar with a type than others, and see things unfamiliar IA's don't. Finally, some IA's are specialists in particular fields, and it's like going to an AME who's also a cardiologist -- s/he's sure to find something obscure about your heart that no other AME would even notice. All you can do is get to know the IA's in your area and their reputations, and choose one who is known to do a good, thorough inspection that finds all the safety-related issues without becoming over-picky on stuff that really doesn't affect safety or otherwise compromise airworthiness.

 

[weirdjim]

I have thick skin, I'm just in a mood today.

Yeah, and I'm in a mood also. Somebody comes on here talking about incompetent mechanics and lazy IAs the hair on the back of my neck stands up. Something about honor in the profession.

Sorry I came off the wall at you.

Best thing I advise is a BIG THICK 3-ring binder and plastic sheet protectors for your logbook. Beats the hell out of those little books that nobody can read after a few years.

Jim

 

[JB1842]

Yeah, and I'm in a mood also. Somebody comes on here talking about incompetent mechanics and lazy IAs the hair on the back of my neck stands up. Something about honor in the profession.

Sorry I came off the wall at you.

Best thing I advise is a BIG THICK 3-ring binder and plastic sheet protectors for your logbook. Beats the hell out of those little books that nobody can read after a few years.

Jim

No worries. I'm not trying to generally blast all IAs out there. I'm basing my view on the opinion of 2 different mechanics at 2 different airports. But I've been around the block too much to even think for a minute that there aren't less than stellar IAs out there.

 

[JGoodish]

Yeah, and I'm in a mood also. Somebody comes on here talking about incompetent mechanics and lazy IAs the hair on the back of my neck stands up. Something about honor in the profession.

There are plenty of incompetent mechanics and lazy IAs out there, and it is those folks who have the burden of protecting honor in the profession.


JKG

 

[Witmo]

At the bottom of the fuselage there is access to the lowest part of the fuel system where Cessna has a plug in the fuel line. This plug should be removed at annual and any gunk drained out. The Cessna 150-152 Club offers an STC for replacing the plug with a push-to-drain valve so it can be drained prior to every flight just like the wing sump drains. The gascolator drain is totally different/separate.

 

[weirdjim]

There are plenty of incompetent mechanics and lazy IAs out there, and it is those folks who have the burden of protecting honor in the profession.

I near'bout lost my temper again, but caught it just in time

No, it is those of us who try and be the best we can who have to out those folks and see to it that they either get retrained or removed.

Jim

 

[weirdjim]

At the bottom of the fuselage there is access to the lowest part of the fuel system where Cessna has a plug in the fuel line. This plug should be removed at annual and any gunk drained out. The Cessna 150-152 Club offers an STC for replacing the plug with a push-to-drain valve so it can be drained prior to every flight just like the wing sump drains. The gascolator drain is totally different/separate.

Yes, I know. We generally call that a plug, not a drain. I was trying to see if perhaps the gentleman's little mishap might have upset either the plug or the gasculator drain.

By the way, lots of my friends keep a gallon jerry can in the hangar to take drained fuel. Makes the lawnmower start again in the spring a lot easier

Jim

 

[Silvaire]

...Brake pads below the minimum allowed, belly fuel drain that was broken and the tanks had contaminated fuel, and a few other smaller things...

To be honest Crash, your list plus the other "few smaller" and "goofy" things really does not warrant starting a thread titled "Pencil-Whipped Annuals".

For one thing, as you told us before, you don't have wheel pants so not only can and should you visibly check the brake pads at pre-flight you, as the owner and sole user of the airplane, would know exactly how much brake usage is going on and thus be fully aware of the general current condition of those pads.

"Broken" drain plug and "contaminated" fuel - I'm not entirely sure what that is about, especially how a drain plug can be broken.

I don't mean to be hard on you but FWIW it's common for a mechanic who you are using for the first time to come across as a bit alarmist by showing up his competition and finding things the former guy may have missed. Furthermore, as others have pointed out, some mechanics are just plain downright anal about things while others are a bit more down to Earth. The aircraft needs to be airworthy, it doesn't need to be flawless. I don't know your mechanic but it's possible he's got two dozen boxes of brake shoes on the shelf and everyone who's come through his shop "needs" new ones. I had to buy a case of nose gear o-rings one time and believe me, I'm always looking for a leaky nose strut when I do an annual on a Cessna

You won the darn thing so, as you yourself admit, you got no real reason to complain and with the list of squawks you've presented I don't think you'd have much reason to complain even if you had bought the plane.

 

[weirdjim]

But but but airplanes have squeakers like car brakes right?

Not unless you call metal lining rivets screeching on metal brake rotors "squeakers".

 

[frfly172]

You have to blame the aircraft owner as well as the mechanic who worked on the airplane.a lot of mechanics will do what the owner wants to keep the business.it is always good to have a different mechanic check over the aircraft occasionally as each mechanic has there own ideas of what is important.The owner has to let the mechanic know how important it is for the aircraft to be safe,the mechanic doesn't fly the airplane.

 

[Tom-D]

What are parts gonna cost on your project Tom? $80 per disk and $40 for all pads? I haven't bought any for a LONG time.

two disk, 4 pucks and 2 hours labor.

 

[Tom-D]

In some cases, yes, the IA does a "walk-around" annual and trades his/her signature (and integrity) for $400. In other cases, different IA's are just more familiar with a type than others, and see things unfamiliar IA's don't. Finally, some IA's are specialists in particular fields, and it's like going to an AME who's also a cardiologist -- s/he's sure to find something obscure about your heart that no other AME would even notice. All you can do is get to know the IA's in your area and their reputations, and choose one who is known to do a good, thorough inspection that finds all the safety-related issues without becoming over-picky on stuff that really doesn't affect safety or otherwise compromise airworthiness.

This guy has a C-150,, you don't have to be an expert in anything to inspect the 150, it has a maintenance manual and a very good inspection list.

We are required be be able to read to be an A&P.

It isn't like the 150 is some weird little glued together aircraft.

 

[Tom-D]

You have to blame the aircraft owner as well as the mechanic who worked on the airplane.a lot of mechanics will do what the owner wants to keep the business.it is always good to have a different mechanic check over the aircraft occasionally as each mechanic has there own ideas of what is important.The owner has to let the mechanic know how important it is for the aircraft to be safe,the mechanic doesn't fly the airplane.

How can anyone blame the mechanic? It is not their responsibility to do any thing except what you tell them to do.

these discrepancies were not missed on an annual, these are discrepancies that occur durning normal usage, the responsibility lies directly with the owner operator.

 

[docmirror]

I think his complaint is very valid if the defects are concerning airworthiness. Most aircraft owners have seen substandard work, and have also seen 'pencil-whipped' annuals. Heck, it has risen to the level that we have coined a specific term for it. There is no industry defined list of what a pencil-whipped plane entails.

I don't have the exhaustive list but if the owner considers it to be substandard work, far be it from me to disagree. I remember going over my Grumman with a really good A&P that knew the planes and it was an eye-opener.

It's the nature of people to complain, and despite getting a plane in a raffle with little investment, the consequences of sub-par mx could be much higher than just the financial aspect.

 

[Dan Thomas]

"Broken" drain plug and "contaminated" fuel - I'm not entirely sure what that is about, especially how a drain plug can be broken........I don't know your mechanic but it's possible he's got two dozen boxes of brake shoes on the shelf and everyone who's come through his shop "needs" new ones.

That plug is seldom, if ever, taken out. It's screwed into the bottom of the fuel selector on most Cessna singles and in a tee in the 150 series. The Cessna inspection checklist tells you to remove that plug each 100 hours or one year and drain the accumulated dirt or water from that low spot.

Only once did I ever have one of those come out nicely. All the others had seized in there over time and the selector valve (which is often not closing completely anyway due to wear or shot O-rings) had to come out, so the plug gets worked out then with some sneaky techniques. Trying too hard to get it out in the airplane will break it off. After that it gets a quick-drain. Usually I found gunk caked in there.

Most guys never take a micrometer to the brake discs. When I measure one for the first time, I often find it worn way past the manufacturer's minimum thickness. The reduction in metal mass means fading brakes on a hard stop. It also means waviness across the disc face, which wears the new pads real quick.

Some guys taxi around with too much RPM and ride the brakes. Those litte pads don't last too long like that, and since they're a largely-metallic lining, they eat the discs too. And like Tom says, if the pads are worn to near the rivet heads (around half the original thickness), they're soon going to score the discs.

Dan

 

[NoHeat]

Can the disks be turned on a lathe to resurface them?