PayPal,,, what a rip off

Tom-D

Tom-D

Taxi to Parking
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Feb 23, 2005
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Tom-D
I sold my GNC 250 on e-bay, it sold as a NO warentee, NO return with a notation that the NAV side did not work.

The buyer bought it at the buy it now option and paid with a cradit card on PayPal. the money was held by PayPal. I shipped the GPS to the customer thinking that the money was in the bank.

WRONG

PayPal held the money, the Buyer having the unit in hand did a charge back saying the unit did not work as discribed.

I disputed the claim, but PayPAL allowed the charge to stand and gave him his money back, he now refuses to respond to my requests to ship it back.

botom line? he got a free GNC250.

NEVER AGAIN PAYPAL.

Learn by my mistake, as a seller never except a PayPal transaction.
 
Tom, where is he?

I'll send him an ESAD letter for free.
 
i had that EXACT same thing happen to me when i sold my old IPOD!

i don't know what to do about it! i lost an IPOD!

What is that about? What recourse does the seller have? NONE! Cant even leave bad feedback!
 
Sold on eBay? Use their methods of challenging the transaction. There is a clear dispute chain. PAYPAL did what any bank would do.
Your recourse is through eBay and it isn't negative feedback!
 
I don't think it's a PayPal problem as much as an eBay one. (Yeah, I know eBay owns PayPal, but they still maintain somewhat separate operations). PayPal charged you back, as most credit card issuers would. They tend to take the consumer's side and put the burden of proof on the merchant. That's true pretty much industry-wide.

But as for eBay... I used to be a certified eBay Consultant, but I haven't sold anything on eBay since they changed the rules and eliminated the ability of sellers to leave feedback on buyers. The system in place now is too lopsided toward buyers, placing sellers at risk with practically every sale.

That being said, eBay does have mechanisms in place to dispute a transaction. I used the dispute process once, successfully, back before the changes. The process can take months, however.

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
But as for eBay... I used to be a certified eBay Consultant, but I haven't sold anything on eBay since they changed the rules and eliminated the ability of sellers to leave feedback on buyers. The system in place now is too lopsided toward buyers, placing sellers at risk with practically every sale.
Click to expand...
There was good reason for eliminating sellers' ability to leave feedback against buyers: sellers were abusing the system to force buyers to leave positive feedback even if negative feedback was warranted. I had one seller send me an item that clearly was not what he was advertising, with the difference such that the item wasn't useful to me. I sent it back, but had to go to dispute resolution to get my money back. I had proof I'd returned the item. I left negative feedback pointing this out; the seller retaliated, claiming falsely that I'd never returned the item. It cost me $70 to have the negative feedback removed and my 100% positive record restored - more than the items themselves had cost.

If sellers would have used the feedback system as it was designed, to show whether buyers had paid promptly, then there would have been no need to prevent them from leaving feedback. They abused the system to retaliate against buyers with legitimate complaints, and had to be reined in.
 
I had basically the same thing happen to me last summer when I sold my iPhone on eBay. He did Buy it now and I shipped the item priority mail. Then the buyer had paypal reverse the charges. However, I called the post office in Denver where it was being delivered and had them stop the package.

In the end, I did get it shipped back to me and ebay returned the fees since the buyer disappeared. But Paypal is a pain and being tied to ebay almost seems like a conflict of interest. I avoid it as much as possible.
 
To add insult to injury, he leaves bad feed back..says the item was damaged in shipment due to poor packaging. but he told PayPal it was not as advertized on e-bay.

never use PayPal, and don't leave feed back until you have the money.and the deal is completed.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this constitute being in possession of a stolen item?
 
SCCutler said:
"ESAD" means, Eat ... ummmm...

...how about, "Consume Feces and Expire."

Now, the is a New York mutt, may or may not care about a letter from a Texas lawyer. But it's a virtual world, so let's roll it out.

Email me with copy of the listing, listing number, transaction details and any emails.

sccutler

(at)

gmail

(dotcom)
Click to expand...

The listing is no longer availible on E-Bay, and deleted from my account.

I've written it off, but I wonder if any one could send him a friendly virus that will reach out and grab him by the throat.

Any of you NYC vigilanties want to apply a little justice? I'll supply the white sheet.
 
sba55 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this constitute being in possession of a stolen item?
Click to expand...

You may have an idea, If a Texas Lawyer sent the NYCPD a letter giving details. I'll bet the GPS would fall out, and the Texas Lawyer could do with it as he likes.
 
Tom-D said:
Any of you NYC vigilanties want to apply a little justice? I'll supply the white sheet.
Click to expand...
You want me to go to BROOKLYN???? :yikes: :yikes:

(Just kidding... I used to live there back in the 70's.)

I was a bit worried when I saw this fellow's name. At first I thought it was Russian, and you do not want to get on the wrong side of the Russian Mob. Of course, just because he might be Russian, does not mean he is a mobster... On further googling of his name it seems this chap is Polish. Anybody here good at impersonating the Polish version of the KGB?

-Skip
 
SkyHog said:
N46719....

Anyone see that plane should punch the pilot in the mouth a few times.
Click to expand...

That'd suck for the renter, if he has it on leaseback.

I can understand him canceling the transaction if he didn't read it fully and/or understand that it was broken... but not sending it back when asked? That's what makes me angry. That's theft. :mad3: And messing with a nice guy like Tom? That's what makes me really angry. :mad3: :mad3: :mad3:

Is there a 3rd party site out there for Sellers to report eBay deadbeats?
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Tom, call Garmin and the NYPD and report the serial number stolen.
Click to expand...

I wish I could, I sent the schmuck every thing I had on the unit.

Install books every thing. except the antenna.
 
Tom-D said:
I wish I could, I sent the schmuck every thing I had on the unit.

Install books every thing. except the antenna.
Click to expand...

Tom, I trust you have the original receipt? Sal Lagonia, Aviation Atty. is a frequent flyer on these boards and practices law in NY. Maybe he can chime in and assist....
 
Folks, I have deleted several posts from this thread that contain personal information on the subject of Tom's post. We've had a long standing policy (in the Rules of Conduct since the beginning) that personal addresses and phone numbers are not to be posted.

Rules of Conduct said:
Participant shall not post messages containing personal phone numbers or addresses other than their own.
Click to expand...

While I completely understand the desire to obtaiin justice for Tom (and I'm very much in support of Tom), the postings involving the personal information of the subject in this thread (and especially in this case) are a problem.

I hope y'all will understand why we deleted the posts.... and I'd ask you not to resurrect the personal details in those public posts.

Thanks

Bill
 
Sorry to hear it Tom. Not surprised though. I rarely sell things on fleabay. When I do, it's clear 'no paypal'. I always get msgs asking me to take paypal or they won't bid. Fine by me.

Hope it works out. If a atty named "Spike" sent me an ESAD, I'd put the check in the mail, poste-haste.
 
wsuffa said:
Folks, I have deleted several posts from this thread that contain personal information on the subject of Tom's post. We've had a long standing policy (in the Rules of Conduct since the beginning) that personal addresses and phone numbers are not to be posted.



While I completely understand the desire to obtaiin justice for Tom (and I'm very much in support of Tom), the postings involving the personal information of the subject in this thread (and especially in this case) are a problem.

I hope y'all will understand why we deleted the posts.... and I'd ask you not to resurrect the personal details in those public posts.

Thanks

Bill
Click to expand...

Oh Well, try this..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120421349536&_trksid=p2762.l1259
 
AAAAGGGGHHHHH!!!!



Payment methods accepted
#
Credit or debit card through PayPal
 
Hey, Tom! Not posting the guy's personal info here, but would you mind if those of us with EBay accounts went to your listing, clicked on the '27' feedback score next to your name, then followed the userid of the person that left you negative feedback on this GPS, and then clicked the 'Contact Member' link on the left and encouraged him to 'do what's right' and return your GPS?

He's a pilot and aircraft owner, too... I bet a "honey" appeal (attract more bees with honey than vinegar, that is; not suggesting that Spike or Nick or anybody else address this guy as "honey" ;)) from fellow pilots might cause him to have a change of heart on his behavior.
 
Troy:

He's from Brooklyn. References to youse friends Vito and big Tony will be more persuasive than shame-on-you tactics.

e=TangoWhiskey;446358]Hey, Tom! Not posting the guy's personal info here, but would you mind if those of us with EBay accounts went to your listing, clicked on the '27' feedback score next to your name, then followed the userid of the person that left you negative feedback on this GPS, and then clicked the 'Contact Member' link on the left and encouraged him to 'do what's right' and return your GPS?

He's a pilot and aircraft owner, too... I bet a "honey" appeal (attract more bees with honey than vinegar, that is; not suggesting that Spike or Nick or anybody else address this guy as "honey" ;)) from fellow pilots might cause him to have a change of heart on his behavior.[/quote]
 
Troy I couldnt find a ctc member link which you suggested, but I regularily talk to one of the guys he sold something to.
 
wsuffa said:
Folks, I have deleted several posts from this thread that contain personal information on the subject of Tom's post. We've had a long standing policy (in the Rules of Conduct since the beginning) that personal addresses and phone numbers are not to be posted.



While I completely understand the desire to obtaiin justice for Tom (and I'm very much in support of Tom), the postings involving the personal information of the subject in this thread (and especially in this case) are a problem.

I hope y'all will understand why we deleted the posts.... and I'd ask you not to resurrect the personal details in those public posts.

Thanks

Bill
Click to expand...

His tailnumber is still fair game, right? I'd like to keep that on my S-list, but I don't have it anymore.

I'd also like to see it posted here and kept here.
 
Tom-D said:
I sold my GNC 250 on e-bay, it sold as a NO warentee, NO return with a notation that the NAV side did not work.
Click to expand...

From the ebay listing:

The com side works, but the nav side data card is out of date.

Just curious what is the difference between the nav side data card being out of date and the nav side not working?
 
EppyGA said:
From the ebay listing:

The com side works, but the nav side data card is out of date.

Just curious what is the difference between the nav side data card being out of date and the nav side not working?
Click to expand...
I'm wondering this as well. Buyers negative feedback was:
"Arrived damaged because of poor packing."
 
EppyGA said:
From the ebay listing:

The com side works, but the nav side data card is out of date.

Just curious what is the difference between the nav side data card being out of date and the nav side not working?
Click to expand...

The nav side did not work due to the data card being way out of date and would not aquire the sats. My Garmin dealer said it was an easy fix. but neded to go to the factory for the new program.

It worked in 2001, it was not damaged when I packed it between 2 layers of foam, but he sent me a picture of how he says it was when he opened it..

His picture is pretty blury
 

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TangoWhiskey said:
Hey, Tom! Not posting the guy's personal info here, but would you mind if those of us with EBay accounts went to your listing, clicked on the '27' feedback score next to your name, then followed the userid of the person that left you negative feedback on this GPS, and then clicked the 'Contact Member' link on the left and encouraged him to 'do what's right' and return your GPS?
He's a pilot and aircraft owner, too... I bet a "honey" appeal (attract more bees with honey than vinegar, that is; not suggesting that Spike or Nick or anybody else address this guy as "honey" ;)) from fellow pilots might cause him to have a change of heart on his behavior.
Click to expand...

I have no prblems with that

My intentions of starting this thread was to show the scam being prepertrated in PayPal. not to gain any compensation. I have written off the unit as a total loss of the $750 he paid thru PayPal which I never got.

Sellers beaware you have no protection against paypal credit card users, dishonest buyer can get away with about any thing when they pay thru
PayPal.
 
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jesse said:
I'm wondering this as well. Buyers negative feedback was:
"Arrived damaged because of poor packing."
Click to expand...

He used that argument on E-bay, but on PayPal he simplly said it was misrepsented in the ad "not as discribed" It was represented as No Warentee, no return, as is.

I sent the pictures of the unit, and a discreption of how it was packed but never got any responce from PayPal other than the charge back was upheld.
 
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