PayPal,,, what a rip off

Best way to beat the PayPal dispute system is to CALL PayPal in person and get a cooperative representative.

Here's a great guide on it, from both the Buyer's and Seller's perspective:

http://reviews.ebay.com/How-to-win-...Buyers-and-Sellers_W0QQugidZ10000000001676577

Tom, from this guide it sounds like the buyer who wins the dispute is required by PayPal to return the item. If he doesn't, you can complain to PayPal and get it reversed in your favor, if the buyer can't prove they sent the item back to you.

If the buyer wins they must now ship the item back to you in the condition received. At this point you should have some photos of your item ready just incase they try to pull a fast one. Like swapping your comic that was in great condition for one that is all torn up, or a fake pair of jeans for your real ones. If this happens, immediately contact Paypal. Take photos of the new item and get ready for a huge drama.
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I just sent this to amex4 via the eBay 'contact member' form:

My good friend Tom (a fellow pilot, like you) sold you a Garmin GNC 250 on eBay recently. As a pilot, I am sad to hear that you are now failing to return to him the item which you purchased via PayPal, despite the fact that your "dispute" with PayPal was upheld and the money you paid was refunded. If you got your money back, that means you didn't pay for the item--you are holding STOLEN property. If you don't feel the item was properly represented, or was packed poorly, then send it back to Tom. But don't keep it. That's just wrong, and you know it.

I see you are a pilot, you own a 172. As aviators, we hold ourselves to a higher standard, as a group. Maybe you have shipped the item back to Tom, and simply haven't communicated this to him yet. I hope that's the case. I really hope you're not just taking advantage of one of the best, honest, helpful men I know.

Do the right thing, please, as both a man and a pilot--send Tom back his GPS.

Signed, A fellow aviator, in Texas.
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"" Tom, from this guide it sounds like the buyer who wins the dispute is required by PayPal to return the item. If he doesn't, you can complain to PayPal and get it reversed in your favor, if the buyer can't prove they sent the item back to you.""

He won the dispute, PayPal allowed the chagre back, I now have no recourse at the link you provided.

I have closed my PayPal Account.
 
The real issue here is Pay Pal and the way they handle these things. If this guy truly believed the unit was damaged due to poor packing then PayPal should not credit the account without first telling the buyer that he/she must return the item to the seller at which time the seller can verify he/she received the item back. Only at that time should the credit be issued.
 
EppyGA said:
The real issue here is Pay Pal and the way they handle these things. If this guy truly believed the unit was damaged due to poor packing then PayPal should not credit the account without first telling the buyer that he/she must return the item to the seller at which time the seller can verify he/she received the item back. Only at that time should the credit be issued.
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Agreed; or, since that option is also fraught with abuse attempts (seller claims they never received the item in return), PayPal acts as an 'escrow' of sorts--buyer sends item to PayPal's Claims dept, refunds the money if the buyer's claims hold water, then forwards the item back to the Seller.

But that's WAY more work than PayPal wants to get involved with.
 
EppyGA said:
The real issue here is Pay Pal and the way they handle these things. If this guy truly believed the unit was damaged due to poor packing then PayPal should not credit the account without first telling the buyer that he/she must return the item to the seller at which time the seller can verify he/she received the item back. Only at that time should the credit be issued.
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You got that right

I have been packing Avionics to send UPS for many years, I never had a problem packing until this guy. IMHO he stuck some thing on the face of the GPS took a fuzzy picture, said it was damaged in shipment, then used that fuzzy picture to prove his point, PayPal bought the lie hook line and sinker.

I'll wager the GNC 250 is in Garmin right now getting the new program installed and the data card update.

As a used unit, the repair is not worth the expence unless the GPS was free.
 
wabower said:
Troy:

He's from Brooklyn. References to youse friends Vito and big Tony will be more persuasive than shame-on-you tactics.
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Apparently you're right, Wayne. Spike, let loose the ESAD letters; Wayne, let loose Vito and Big Tony.

Here's his reply to my appeal-to-do-the-right-thing yesterday:

amex4 said:
Listen "A fellow aviator in Texas". Your buddy Tom is the one doing the scamming. He sent me a GPS which got banged to hell because he did a crap packaging job. When I communicated to him that this happen his replys was basically F-off I'm not taking a return. I tried to resolve this amicably but he chose not to. I'm in the process of getting a refund the hard way, through my CC company. When I get this I'll square things away with the seller and give him the same consideration he gave me.

- amex4
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I've replied to him again, to inquire how packing something in foam is a "crap" packing job; and to find out if he intends to return the item to Tom once his CC company processes the refund.
 
The subject in question replied again; I've PM'd it to Tom, I don't think putting more here is useful.
 
I am sorry to bring this up.. I know Tom is well liked and was trying to do a fair deal but when selling via ebay you have to spell everything out and cover every detail or it could cause problems after the sale.

I also stopped selling on Ebay and using papal when they drastically changed the rules to favor the buyers. And the buyer definitely needs to send his unit back insured and track able ASAP.

But in fairness to a fellow pilot ( the buyer ) there are 2 sides to every story.

The ebay listing said:

"The com side works, but the nav side data card is out of date"

I think most people would believe this means the unit needs a $50 or so database download to the nav card..

But it looks like the following info was left out of the ebay listing..

"The nav side did not work due to the data card being way out of date and would not aquire the sats. My Garmin dealer said it was an easy fix. but neded to go to the factory for the new program."

And finally the below quote.. If this is true was it fair to sell it to a fellow pilot for $750 ?

"I'll wager the GNC 250 is in Garmin right now getting the new program installed and the data card update.

As a used unit, the repair is not worth the expence unless the GPS was free"
 
At this point the way I read it is the buyer has said when is sure the credit has posted to his account he's shipping the unit back. Is poking him in the eye a good tactic?:idea:
 
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EppyGA said:
At this point the way I read it is the buyer has said when is sure the credit has posted to his account he's shipping the unit back. Is poking him in the eye a good tactic?:idea:
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Like I have said, I have written this off, He claims it was packed wrong, I say it was. PayPal sided with him, he has had well over 2 months to get it right.

PayPal is probably yanking him around too.

I allowed this to go to a dispute, because it was a no warentee, no return, and advertized as " AS REMOVED " He should have known what he was buying, asked a question if he was not sure.

If he sends it back OK, if not OK. I know now what he is, and how not to get cheated again..

NEVER AGAIN PAYPAL Once burned, once learned, I can't afford two lessons.
 
Just do a Google search on Paypal lawsuits and see if you want to do business with them....
 
Larryo said:
Just do a Google search on Paypal lawsuits and see if you want to do business with them....
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Holly Cr--- 11 pages to start.

Wish I had been smart enought to do the google thing before I fell for it.
 
If you truly believe that the buyer may be scamming you, and intends to send the unit in to the factory for the upgrade, then why not contact the factory with the model and serial number, explain the unit was stolen (after all, it was taken without payment, right? = stolen), and ask them to hold the unit for recovery.

At least this will negate any benefit the so-called buyer might have gotten from the unit.

Just an idea....
 
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