Paying for training?

You will also find that their financial circumstances and economic conditions were very different 30-40 years ago when they started out, compared to the 20 year olds now.
 
rolivi said:
Last I heard professional pilots get paid too.
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that wasn't my experience 20 years ago, nor does it seem to be what I observe in the wild these days. If you want a low paying job with crappy family life there are lots of options you can do right now that don't require a mountain of debt to train yourself for.
 
ircphoenix said:
You will also find that their financial circumstances and economic conditions were very different 30-40 years ago when they started out, compared to the 20 year olds now.
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The most consistent thing about every generation is that they think the one before them had it made. Self pity is not productive. If you really are 20 years old then you have the greatest resource of all - whole career in front of you. Wise investments now will pay off huge for you in for future. If I had it to do over again I'd have skipped the ercoupe at age 19 and plowed that money into oil stocks - that ercoupe would be a Pilatus now.
 
I am not 20 years old. I haven't been for over a decade. I'm well established in a decent paying job with healthcare benefits, pension, and deferred comp.

But I acknowledge that economic realities are different now than they were 40 years ago. They're different now than they were even 10 years ago. Track changes in our economy. Changes in job availability. And what those jobs offer. They're VASTLY different now than they were. I had this discussion the other day with someone at work who insisted that he worked full time and paid for his own schooling 30 years ago. So everyone else can too.

Someone brought up doctors... okay. Well med school in 2016 dollars, is 4 times more expensive now than it was in 1980. Even since 1997, costs are 40% higher for med school now than it was in 1997... again even when adjusted for inflation. Wages over the same time period have remained stagnant.

But that's another story. I don't envy the career prospects of a 22 year old that has been saddled with education debt.
 
JHW said:
that wasn't my experience 20 years ago, nor does it seem to be what I observe in the wild these days. If you want a low paying job with crappy family life there are lots of options you can do right now that don't require a mountain of debt to train yourself for.
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No need disparage aviation as a career. Many people love it. And I'm glad they do since I wouldn't be able to commute to work every week without commercial carriers.
 
Flyguy8911 said:
As it stands for me now it looks like I might have to take a loan out on top of paying back my current student loans from college
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That would be about the dumbest move you would make in your lifetime.
 
I got a great job, used my income to pay for flight training. No debt. No problems.
 
These days, young people (I'm allowed to say this now that I turned 40 LOL) have no patience. They think of something and must have it right now, today. The concept of saving money for something that you want is long gone from our society.

My PPL cost $31,000 over about 26 months. I had a long wait for my medical from Oklahoma City so I could not solo nor do the checkride, so just kept flying and flying and flying to the tune of 151 hours. I paid using my CC and paid off in full each month from job income. I guess that's like paying cash, not in debt.

These days, I would advise a recent grad to NOT take on more unsecured debt with his job prospects and future economic prosperity iffy.
 
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The savings rate started its decline before today's young adults were born. Easy debt since the early 2000s has made housing and college costs rise more rapidly than the general inflation rate.

While I am generally opposed to debt, even I have to admit that "time is money" and there is a risk/reward ratio. Job prospects for a career pilot are the best right now as they have been in several decades. But at the same time, pilot training has never been more costly.

If you plan to be a hobbyist pilot, I can't think of a good reason for financing your training.
 
orange said:
My PPL cost $31,000 over about 26 months. I had a long wait for my medical from Oklahoma City so I could not solo nor do the checkride, so just kept flying and flying and flying to the tune of 151 hours.
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don't feel bad, waiting to turn 16 i racked up over 300 hours before solo. I'm probably the slowest learner on the planet by that criteria
 
Paid as I went for My PPL. Took 12 months flying once a weekends mostly. Took 67 hours to get my PPL. Slow learner perhaps. It didn't help during that time frame I went through 4 instructors because they left for different jobs. If I could afford to fly more I'm sure the hours would have shorten.
 
I wanted to learn to fly from the time I was a teenager, but life got in the way. I was married at 21. Graduated from College at 24. Baby number five was born in 2012. Credit cards and all car loans were finally paid off in 2013. THEN, at 32 years old, I finally started flight training. Paying for a lesson a week wasn't that big of a deal since I had just freed up $1,200 a month that I had been putting towards debt.

Now I have the cash to buy an airplane, but I'll be putting that down on a new house in a month or two when it is done being built.
 
Baby #5?!?!

You'll need a 7 seater to haul around the family!
 
JHW said:
that wasn't my experience 20 years ago, nor does it seem to be what I observe in the wild these days. If you want a low paying job with crappy family life there are lots of options you can do right now that don't require a mountain of debt to train yourself for.
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The salary does not start huge, but a good living can indeed be made. In addition, I have found an airline schedule to be great for family life.
 
Mine came out of my bank account. I got through a pretty aggressive flying schedule on what I earned. I did use my credit card for the very end of it.
 
dmspilot said:
While I am generally opposed to debt, even I have to admit that "time is money" and there is a risk/reward ratio. Job prospects for a career pilot are the best right now as they have been in several decades. But at the same time, pilot training has never been more costly.
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This is basically my thought process as well. Since I do want to go all the way and with the way the job market for pilots currently is (meaning just the amount of openings and how it seems to be on the rebound) I wanted to get done as soon as possible.

That said everyone here and IRL all basically say the same thing, which is not to use a loan for it. Plus with what I still have left to pay for college it probably isn't a good idea to get another loan. I suppose I'll have to start looking for a second job then and start paying it out of pocket.

Thanks for all the responses and good advice guys/gals!
 
That's why I am never having kids and I'm gonna spend it allll on myself! :D Just kidding i'm not quite that selfish.
 
ircphoenix said:
Well I won't be paying cash for my plane either.
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But many do have the assets (perhaps not liquid) to pay of the entire note on the airplane immediately in case of fiscal emergencies -- a sound fiscal way to buy any "toy". If it's a "working airplane" and making money, that's quite different and may be structured differently.

Just remember as @flyingcheesehead says, "You can live in an airplane, but you can't fly a house!" :)
 
dmspilot said:
While I am generally opposed to debt, even I have to admit that "time is money" and there is a risk/reward ratio. Job prospects for a career pilot are the best right now as they have been in several decades. But at the same time, pilot training has never been more costly.
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While job prospects might be good now (i.e., volume of pilot jobs available), I think you have to be mindful that starting pilot salaries are DISMAL, and automation technology in the cockpit will reduce (note that I did not say eliminate) the demand for pilots in the future - which will not be good for pilot salaries. Put all of this together, and you'll be paying a debt on a negative-returning investment. The only up-side is that you might be personally happier as a pilot, but with a financial ball and chain permanently weighing you down.
 
nj-pilot said:
While job prospects might be good now (i.e., volume of pilot jobs available), I think you have to be mindful that starting pilot salaries are DISMAL, and automation technology in the cockpit will reduce (note that I did not say eliminate) the demand for pilots in the future - which will not be good for pilot salaries. Put all of this together, and you'll be paying a debt on a negative-returning investment. The only up-side is that you might be personally happier as a pilot, but with a financial ball and chain permanently weighing you down.
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Interesting way to look at it/word it. I have really thought about making flying a career...but the more I look at it the more I am hesitant at going down that path.
 
nj-pilot said:
While job prospects might be good now (i.e., volume of pilot jobs available), I think you have to be mindful that starting pilot salaries are DISMAL, and automation technology in the cockpit will reduce (note that I did not say eliminate) the demand for pilots in the future - which will not be good for pilot salaries. Put all of this together, and you'll be paying a debt on a negative-returning investment. The only up-side is that you might be personally happier as a pilot, but with a financial ball and chain permanently weighing you down.
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You speak as if what you say is fact, rather than opinion. I personal have a different view.
 
nj-pilot said:
While job prospects might be good now (i.e., volume of pilot jobs available), I think you have to be mindful that starting pilot salaries are DISMAL, and automation technology in the cockpit will reduce (note that I did not say eliminate) the demand for pilots in the future - which will not be good for pilot salaries. Put all of this together, and you'll be paying a debt on a negative-returning investment. The only up-side is that you might be personally happier as a pilot, but with a financial ball and chain permanently weighing you down.
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The starting pay at the regional I'll be training with next month is $50K. Regionals aren't paying peanuts anymore.
 
ircphoenix said:
You will also find that their financial circumstances and economic conditions were very different 30-40 years ago when they started out, compared to the 20 year olds now.
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When I was 20, mortgage rates were 18% + and America was experiencing the Carter Malaise.
 
jordane93 said:
The starting pay at the regional I'll be training with next month is $50K. Regionals aren't paying peanuts anymore.
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That's not bad. Is that industry wide? What's 2nd and 3rd year?
 
paflyer said:
You are SCREWED already.
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She actually said today that she would love to buy me an airplane. It wasn't couched with a "but.." at the end or anything! ... I think she views it as a potential way to keep me out of the house. LoL
 
dans2992 said:
That's not bad. Is that industry wide? What's 2nd and 3rd year?
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The starting pay for most regionals is 30-50K. Certainly not like what it used to be. 2nd and 3rd year is around 53 and 56. The bonus really helps us. We get 23K every year until 2018 on top of our hourly pay.
 
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How long does it take to get up into the 6 figure range as a professional pilot. (Not the flying coke out of Mexico type of professional)
 
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