Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
that's a pretty ignorant way to describe those who served.
You're obviously new here, but FWIW, Tom served and he is not ignorant.
that's a pretty ignorant way to describe those who served.
You're intentionally conflating my post with the entire thread, then diverting attention from my specific example towards some ambiguous universal.
The overhead break maneuver at pattern altitude is unnecessary when other airplanes are in the pattern -- if you have your own strip do whatever you want.
Flying opposite to established direction is stupid, and an RV driver was doing it -- what else do you want to hear?
Does anyone know if there are high wing RVs?
did you get his tail?
Nope, impossible: He didn't land at the airport (at least while I was there), and had black numbers on polished Aluminum finish --that's all I could see (and the US Roundel).
then how could you know its an RV?
Did it look like this?
Did it look like this?
that's a pretty ignorant way to describe those who served.
Lonestar!
There is only one man who would dare give me the raspberry!
did he ID himself as experimental?
did he ID himself as RV?
you called a silver colored plane an RV?
it could well be any one of the 20+ looked alike low wing plane.
it could be a Mustang for all you know.
AWO is one of them, and the RV squadron is mostly old military pilots and old retired airline pilots (maybe both) running on ego.
that's a pretty ignorant way to describe those who served.
I wasn't describing those who served I was referring to the AWO RV squadron. That bunch has a reputation of arrogance and thinking they own the AWO airspace.
Please don't generalize my statements to include all military or airline pilots.
Finally, while the FAA may recommend the 45-downwind midfield entry, the FAA recognizes and accepts pretty much any entry to the pattern from the outside including upwind, crosswind, and downwind entries.
Dan - I am an RV4 pilot. I just want you to know that not all RVers are of the stereotypical variety. If I may, I would like to comment....
- So, the RV-apologists signed up and posted last night I see..
There was a post on VAF with a link to your post. I didn't even know about this site before today. I will hang around here, seems like there's some good stuff to be learned.
- these blasted RV drivers who feel compelled to do overhead breaks
I don't like overhead breaks or midfield entries. Both are too nerve wracking for me, but I understand that is a personal thing.
- I've talked with a couple of others on the ground after near-misses. Don't think it does much good, frankly.
Please don't stop trying. If you get through to just one, it might save somebody's life down the road.
- COOL is getting utility and operating for a lifetime without injuring anybody.
Amen
- The RV-er there just can't seem to grasp that they have a problem.
Oh yes they do. But as has already been posted, it is a few bad eggs that are spoiling the image of the rest of us.
- This is why I fly my airplane like I ride my motorcycle. I presume that everyone else in the air is an idiot who is trying to kill me.
Amen. I also ride a Honda CBR1000RR. It can do 189MPH but that doesn't mean I drive it that way.
- There are some airports that seem to attract RVs. Hang around there a week or so and you'll quickly come to the same conclusions...
Please take a breath and try to see what influence you might be having on someone else with stereo typical statements like this. I fly out of KDLZ, where several RVs are based. I have never witnessed an overhead break there and believe me I spend lots of time in the hangar with the door open just watching.
I owned a Cherokee 180 for seven years. I found that 98% of the time I was flying, there were three empty seats. 1% two were filled and 1% more than two. I bought the RV4 because it gets me where I am going much more quickly and with less fuel burned. I follow the rules and and mindful of my responsibility to keep my passenger, my fellow aviators, and myself safe.
I have experienced three near-misses. Two were in IMC with people that were not talking to ATC. The other was having a guy take the active while I was on VERY short final - doing a 180 to avoid landing on top of someone at that point in the landing phase was exciting. Two of the airplanes were definitely not RVs, the third I am not sure about I have flown with other RV pilots and feel no shame in asking them to fly safely. So far, I have not been chastised for being 'chicken'.
I have also experienced reckless flying by two CFIs that I was 'learning' from. One lesson ended with a gear-up landing (his fault, not mine), the other busted into IMC while my son was in the back of the plane with us. He felt it was OK because he was listening to ATC and it was 'just for a minute while we climbed through to get on top.' I have never flown with either again and have no problem telling people why I won't.
Thanks for listening and fly safely.
Phil
Welcome to Pilots of America! I enjoyed reading your post. Hope you stick around.
Dan - I am an RV4 pilot. I just want you to know that not all RVers are of the stereotypical variety. If I may, I would like to comment....
[snipped for brevity]
Thanks for listening and fly safely.
Phil
You are disrespectful..
Its not really limited to RV's though. We heard a Cessna of some sort announcing a straight-in to runway 07 at a local airport a couple days ago. The problem was the 4 gliders, 2 tugs and a couple others who were using the opposite runway- 25. When notified that all other traffic was using runway 25 the cessna said he'd watch out for them.......while he landed on 07. I guess the bright side is that he was at least talking.
Frank
I agree. This is not limited to any particular brand. There is bad apple in very bunch. Blaming RV for bad behavior does not get my respect. This stereotype has no place in aviation education. If you want stereotype, this is a bad one I hear all the time: CFIs are frustrated heavy driver wannabes. Do you think this kind of propaganda is good for our industry?
I agree. This is not limited to any particular brand. There is bad apple in very bunch. Blaming RV for bad behavior does not get my respect. This stereotype has no place in aviation education. If you want stereotype, this is a bad one I hear all the time: CFIs are frustrated heavy driver wannabes. Do you think this kind of propaganda is good for our industry?
Anyone else notice how this one thread has lead to several new members joining POA?
Did someone post over on the AOPA board that there was a fight over here?
Anyone else notice how this one thread has lead to several new members joining POA?
Did someone post over on the AOPA board that there was a fight over here?
First of all -
If YOU do not know what an Overhead Break is don't blame the other guy - read the AIM! It is there for everyone who enjoys mastering the art of flying to read.
The Overhead break entry wasn't created to "look cool" it is in fact the most efficient and orderly way to sequence a formation flight into the pattern. The fact it does look cool is simply a by-product. If you don't know how to fly formation and do not understand then maybe you should go learn and not be so afraid of the unknown. Certainly there are times when this shouldn't be done and perhaps the original posters event was such an occasion but it is ridiculous to condemn a published and approved procedure. I use the OH break entry almost exclusively and do so at tower controlled fields in both Class D and C airspace. ATC knows what it is - why don't you? I also use it at uncontrolled fields as well if it makes sense based upon traffic, and my position. I think you'll find most of us work it this way. If you are a CFI and you do not know this procedure get back in the books! If you are flying in the pattern and hear someone calling for the Overhead and you are uncomfortable you can simply ask for clarification - that other guys is just as motivated as you are to avoid the mid-air. Please remember not all planes are the same - Your C152 has a glide ratio significantly higher than most RVs making that huge training pattern less than optimum for an RV should an engine failure occur. Most RV pilots would like to stay tucked in close so they can assure a safe gliding recovery to the runway (wouldn't you). If you are with a student and extend way way upwind don't be alarmed if the faster less glide friendly RV would like to stay closer to the runway and hopefully some good radio comms will help resolve it (from both of you). The typical RV can fly two passes in the time a C-152 does during a typical student training flight. If you are uncomfortable ask the RV pilot to take the opposite pattern - or you take the opposite pattern and deconflict on the base turn.
Be sure the guys you are flaming are actually breaking regs before you slam them. If you are so comfortable in the way you fly at the location you fly you've forgotten there are often more ways to skin a cat.. it is YOUR problem and not the other guy. If anyone breaks a reg and you feel it was unsafe you have an obligation to try to contact that pilot or the authorities. If on the other hand the RV drivers you hate so much just don't do it like you do it but are flying legal then relax and maybe learn something new. I can almost guarantee if you stopped to talk to an RV pilot in the air or ground you'll find them to be some of the most friendly and considerate people around.
It is probably true most RV pilots have an attitude - We spent long hours building a plane with tremendous performance and expended of $ and effort, we love to fly, we love to fly professionally and we love to share the experience with others. The attitude of most RV pilots is very positive, safe and beneficial to all of GA. Go find an RV pilot and ask him for a ride - it'll change your perspective and probably cost you about $80K cause you'll want one yourself!
Fly safe and try to be nice!
Ken
RV8 - FD38 Wellington FL
CFI/CFII (fixed and rotary), Navy Pilot, Test Pilot
So, the RV-apologists signed up and posted last night I see..
Dr Bruce is absolutely right -- ya'll need to recognize the problems and address them, or the problem will be addressed for you, and all will suffer.
I have no idea why you concluded I "hate RV drivers so much." Perhaps youbelieve disagreement or conflict equals "hate." I have a slightly more nuanced view of the range of human interchange.
I'm getting the impression there is a common problem among RV pilots.
First, What is E-A/B? And What is Van doing that needs to change?
(This is all new to me. I never really paid attention to experimental/kit stuff)
a bit OT...
once you have tried an experimental glass panel (GRT, Advanced Flight Systems, Dynon, etc.,)
you cannot go back.
all the synthetic vision, safe taxi, etc., will spoil you forever.
a bit OT...
once you have tried an experimental glass panel (GRT, Advanced Flight Systems, Dynon, etc.,)
you cannot go back.
all the synthetic vision, safe taxi, etc., will spoil you forever.
I could say the same thing for radial engines and a fistful of throttles.
No, and I don't think the FAA ever did recommend only one turn in the direction of the pattern. Even with the recommended 45-downwind entry, you must make two turns in that direction (base and final).Am I correct in assuming the FAA still only recommends one turn in the direction of the traffic pattern in the AIM ?
I know of no AC which recommends only one turn in the direction of the traffic pattern.and that is an AC which is not regulatory in nature.
I agree, but an overhead entry is not inherently unsafe, and is an FAA-recognized procedure.Entering the pattern in a unsafe manor can get you a citation under careless or reckless operation, but I have never heard of the FAA giving that citation without being a first hand witness to the event.