Parents of teens -- HELP!

Ken Ibold

Final Approach
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Ken Ibold
OK, you guys who have been through the raising of teens. I need help! My 12-year-old is a good kid, smart as a whip, always gotten good grades. But he has entered that adolscent funk. He blows off homework, does half-baked work on projects, ignores studying for exams. And no matter what we say or do he doesn't seem to care.

Any ideas for getting him to re-engage? My frustration is boiling over here...
 
OK, you guys who have been through the raising of teens. I need help! My 12-year-old is a good kid, smart as a whip, always gotten good grades. But he has entered that adolscent funk. He blows off homework, does half-baked work on projects, ignores studying for exams. And no matter what we say or do he doesn't seem to care.

Any ideas for getting him to re-engage? My frustration is boiling over here...

We went through the exact same thing with our son. Essentially I had to treat him like an employee and employ business concepts like performance reviews. I used access to friends and privileges he had as the "compensation". Even with all that he still blew off a lot of stuff. He graduated from high school then dropped out during his first year of college. He just didn't want it enough and I wasn't there at college to manage him. :(
 
I have three older daughters, we went through the same thing with the two youngest, I do not think you can truly show them the fruits of their labor anymore. They just do not understand. I believe I failed in the area of spending enough direct time with them due to a divorce with their mother.

Only suggestion would be to monitor every aspect of his life, it will be tough but it did work on my oldest daughter.
 
Not a parent, but I recently went through that stage. I was always smart enough to know what I could blow off and what I couldn't; therefore, my grades weren't too bad. I think to some extent I just grew out of it. Also, once I got to college I could start taking some ownership of the courses I wanted to take, not what the state said I had to take.
 
Find something he *really* likes. Something he really wants. Something to motivate him. Make school work be his method of getting it.

If that doesn't work--Don't feed him anymore.

A desire to have food to eat motivated me at a pretty young age...Followed by aviation.
 
I went through the same exact phase about (holy !@$#@) 15 years ago. My parents had a hell of a time with me. I called them an thanked them on my 20th birthday.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
I went through that phase the entirety of my high school years. I don't want to sound like such a negative guy, but my parents were unable to control it. I think the only thing that would work might be to be a real jerk about it and force your hand.

The problem is that if it backfires, you'll have a rebellious teen instead of a lazy teen. I'm not sure which is worse.
 
Set some expectations and consequences, which are tangible (positive and negative). Teens are learning to be independent, or should be, but they also need to learn they are not living in a vacuum.

Irrational force will only alienate them.
 
Been there. I'll bet he's bored to tears. He needs challenges...and that wasn't all there was to me not taking it seriously.

My high school grades my last few years were dreadful. When I went to college as an adult decades later I wouldn't settle for a B.

I managed to make up for it in life but wasn't an easy path.

I have no idea what you could have said to me back then to make me patient enough to get through it.

I think you might have to let him slack off for a while. Make it clear that you aren't going to spring for college if he can't figure out how to take it seriously.
 
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Not a parent, thank goodness!
But, I went through a phase like that my first year of high school, and managed to fail out. I don't think anybody who has met me now would guess that today.
I don't want to sound too terrible, but right now he is pretty young, and at 12 school doesn't really matter that much. Middle school is a really tough time for almost everybody, and I know that I had a bear of a time with both classes and social life. (Being shorter than the girls is really hard!) Not much you can do will change that. Public schools and some private schools don't make things easier, with huge classes and zero personal attention. Fortunately middle school doesn't really matter, and nobody I know is a worse person for screwing up middle school.
If the trends continue in high school, then problems arise.

Some things you can try:
Sports: this doesn't get said enough, but boys need to blow off energy after class. A school schedule which keeps budding men indoors all day is not only unfair, but that extra energy can be vicious when it comes to doing work. Sports are also really good for teaching motivation and focus, which is needed in all aspects of life.
Personal attention (school): I don't have a clue what your financial situation is, but you may consider a school which is both academically rigorous, and personally focused. A place where smart students can use their smarts for work, and where their efforts are rewarded does wonders for academic performance.
Some other motivator: Finding something in life which gives him meaning, and something to aim for can also really help make school work more bearable. I'm thinking something like gliding lessons, since he will be able to solo in two years. I know that for me my school performance was part motivation, part abundance of energy, and part self confidence. Having something that sets you apart really can help to improve class performance, believe it or not.

Best of luck, and every child is different, but I know that some of the suggestions on this board would probably have set me on a very very different path. Feel free to PM...
R
 
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In all seriousness, I don't know if you can really do much to prevent it. The desire to excel has to be wanted by the student, not by the parent. A few things that snapped me out of the phase was coming too close to failing a required course and seeing my brother continually screw up his life.

That and the fact that the same subjects get boring. Through middle school, you're pretty much dealing with the same stuff every year. You keep learning a little more, but there's nothing to really pique your interest. In other words, he may need some kind of challenge. Hell, get a kit and have him help you build it. If he wants to help, he's gotta be done with his work and he's gotta maintain a certain average. (PS- if you provide funding for school when he goes off to college, the "maintain a 3.0 or you lose the income" idea works well.) It could be a way to get him to reengage in school as well as you getting some cheap labor on a new plane ;)
 
PS Anthony, I just noticed your "Location" LOL!!

"Marcus hook.....at least it isn't Chester."
 
PS Anthony, I just noticed your "Location" LOL!!

"Marcus hook.....at least it isn't Chester."

Was wondering when that would happen. Yeah not for from the seaplane base in Eddystone.
 
"When a child turns 12 you should put him in a barrel, nail the lid down and feed him through a knot hole. When he turns 16, plug the hole!"
Mark Twain

Wish I could offer some words of wisdom - our daughter, now 25, went thru this in spades, our middle son, now 19 is suffering from it as a college freshman (answer here is "pay your own tuiton", I think) and the 14 year old has not (yet) exhibited this behavior. I'm sure it's coming... good luck!
 
When our son started that stuff we started linking everything to his grades, then as an added bonus we offered bonuses based on semester grades, $xx for an A and down the line. His grades improved greatly, and we had to open him a savings acct. Now, at age 14 he understands more and more how pay and jobs are linked to performance.
The downside to this was being fair and offering the same deal to our daughter, the straight A student. She about bankrupted us the first year.:D All the money goes into a savings account and the kids have their own money when it comes time to buy something they want, games, books, etc.
at 11 and 14 my kids have become frighteningly mature about managing money, and earning towards goals.:yes:
 
Spend a lot more time with him. Be supportive. Always be open to what he has to say. Have an extra special night for the both of you to reward good performance at school.

My niece would start blowing stuff off in order to get attention from her parents. They would give her "things" and let her do "things" (they had "only child guilt") but what she really wanted was time with THEM. Seemed she only got it when she did something that got her in trouble.

Don't be afraid to talk to him, straight and true. Ask him what he thinks it might be, and ask maybe what he thinks should be done.

good luck and best wishes
 
Ken,

Call me. I can't help but I can sympathize.

(It doesn't help when everyone around you points out that you were much worse then you were his age, does it?)


I'll never forget asking my son how he could make a "C" in "Brakes and Steering" - a blow off shop class. His response? "Well Dad, I guess I just don't give a ****."

Call me.
 
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Ken: I'm a parent of an almost 11 yo girl. And my brother went through a lot of crap when he was a kid. I was the dutiful oldest child and did what I was told. I think Antony and Mike gave some good advice actually everyone did But I particurlay like Anthony's and Mikes.

I think bordom has a lot to do with it. Also to be frank who the hell wants to listen to their mom or dad. If your son has an adult who he looks up to a teacher, Neighbor or Uncle they can make some good head way that perhaps you as a father can't.


Along the lines of what Mike said bordom is a huge issue. Is there something he is passionate about? If so use it like a carrot or use it to ignite his drive. More important that using it as a carrot IMHO is to use it to forge a bond which in turn will develop respect and make him more likely to listen to you. It can be anything, Aviation, sailing, Music, Camping, Fishing, Art, skiing anything. Then get involved with him.

I had a lot of Wilderness experiences as a kid that I thought helped shape me and give me some self confidence, I'm not talking the Hard love kind although that might be ok in the right circumstances but just some good wilderness trips and lessons about respect and the wild.

If you think his friends are a Bad influence and I don't mean the kind that encourage some healthy rebellion ( its necessary) but really bad kids by all means CUT THEM OFF!

Finally don't be afraid to have him see a therapist who works with adolescents. Before you know it he will be 18 and it will be too late.

Best of Luck my friend
 
Ken,

Call me. I can't help but I can sympathize.

(It doesn't help when everyone around you points out that you were much worse then you were his age, does it?)


I'll never forget asking my son how he could make a "C" in "Brakes and Steering" - a blow off shop class. His response? "Well Dad, I guess I just don't give a ****."

Call me.

Ugh Chip I recall getting a "D" in typing class in HS ( remeber that class) my dad asked why I got a "D" my response was I did "D" work.
 
Let me be the first one to say this: If it turns out to be boredom, DO NOT PUT HIM IN GIFTED CLASSES! My parents did this for me in Middle School, I went into a gifted math class. 8 times more work, same outcome in grade.

Ask anyone who has seen me do math lately to see how that turned out.
 
Welcome to my pain Ken! I tell people that I'm for abortion up to age 20!

Look at this picture of my 23 year old... :hairraise: Feel better now! :(
 

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I had a lot of Wilderness experiences as a kid that I thought helped shape me and give me some self confidence, I'm not talking the Hard love kind although that might be ok in the right circumstances but just some good wilderness trips and lessons about respect and the wild.

I turned around during the time I was working on a lobster boat and spent lots of time hiking and cycling. Getting out and understanding my place in the world was a real big thing for me, I was pretty confused about that stuff for a long time.

This may sound kinda crazy, but I have seen some fathers at the climbing gym with their sons, and the guys who spend the most time working together seem to come out stronger overall. One guy and his son faught almost every time - about 3 months ago - and now I see them there, every Tuesday night, and they get along and work at things together. Learning to trust each other and belaying I think has a big part of that...

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
A little additional background: He goes to a full-time gifted magnet school that feeds directly into a couple of full-time gifted high schools that are ranked among the 10 best high schools in the country. Poor grades get you kicked out of the program and into Duval County's dangerous "regular" schools. And that would be a REAL problem.

He's quite capable of doing the work, but I don't think lack of a challenge is the issue. He's quite the gearhead, and his science project (due tomorrow) on the effect on lift of changing upper camber was an inspired piece of work. The problem is that he procrastinated and procrastinated, and now he's frantically trying to finish the project and doesn't have time to study for the 9-week exams he has tomorrow.
 
I feel your pain Ken.
My older one "got it" at about 14 1/2, "if I do my work I get to do other things, if I don't, I get to sit at the kitchen table with no TV, phone or games".
My younger one (16) has just started to figure out "my will against his and I WILL WIN". He has sat at that table for over a month before EVERY DAY.
We don't ask for A's and B's, just that the effort is there. When we get comments from teachers of missed assignments, things get a little hectic around my household.
I believe in if you do what you are supposed to then you get privileges if not, you get none!
Mark B.
 
A little additional background: He goes to a full-time gifted magnet school that feeds directly into a couple of full-time gifted high schools that are ranked among the 10 best high schools in the country. Poor grades get you kicked out of the program and into Duval County's dangerous "regular" schools. And that would be a REAL problem.

He's quite capable of doing the work, but I don't think lack of a challenge is the issue. He's quite the gearhead, and his science project (due tomorrow) on the effect on lift of changing upper camber was an inspired piece of work. The problem is that he procrastinated and procrastinated, and now he's frantically trying to finish the project and doesn't have time to study for the 9-week exams he has tomorrow.

I still think challenge is the issue. If he knew (or felt) that he could get the work done at the last minute, but it would be a struggle, then that is a challenge in his mind (I did the very same thing for an independent study course, and anytime professors give me some specific date a few months away for a project). It's worth a shot to ask him if he's bored in his classes and perhaps why?
 
Give him a choice: straighten up or you'll home-school him. :eek:

J/k. I don't have an answer, but most kids fear parents more than they fear school...
 
<rant>

I just want to take this opportunity to say: "Be careful with offering bribes for grades." I'm starting to get rather annoyed with one of my teachers who tries to motivate us with phone cards and Best Buy gift cards.
If you really want to excel in a class, you have to enjoy what you're learning. Even if the bribe is something the child feels is worth attaining (why would I want to shop at BestBuy?!), he's only going to do the minimum to get what he wants. That may work to get him through school, but it's really treating the symptoms and not the problem.

The problem, in my experience at least, is that I didn't really care about much of what I was learning. So the solution seems to be to somehow make him care about what he's learning, or relate what he's learning to something he likes.

My Calculus teacher also teaches Economics, which I don't really like. So most of the time I just have to force myself to do the problems he assigns. But on the rare occasion that he assigns a Physics related problem, I'll do it and maybe a couple more just for fun.

I really don't know where I'm going with this (see the <rant> tag above), but if any of it seems pertinent, I'd be happy to take credit.

</rant>
 
Ken:

Tough, because your description is like holding up a mirror in my face.

One of the real challenges we have, today, is that the overwhelming majority of the current generation of kids have never seen even marginally bad times, have no clue that life has legitimately bad consequences for people who make bad choices.

What to do?

Many of the "carrots" referenced above are good ideas; it is certainly not too late for your son to learn some of the consequences of bad life decisions, too.

Some have found it effective to engage in some volunteer work for those who have experienced truly hard times- preferably, in / near your community so he can recognize the hard times in context, as opposed to seeing it in (for example) Haiti, which would be someplace so foreign that it simply is not relevant.

My cousin's kid had a wake-up moment when she was assisting with some Katrina relief, seeing what happens to people who have, suddenly, nothing. Not quite the same, because she could (and ultimately, did) associate that with a sudden catastrophe, and (of course) government's fault. But it was a measure of progress.

The toughest thing is, though, that it is hard work, very very hard work for you guys, and it is work no one else can do.

Link desired things to the work done to achieve them; life does that to us, to this day. Have the strength (and it is gut-wrenching and at times, inconvenient) to follow up on the threats of consequences, with the promised consequence.

Key word: promise.

Promise to hold him to a standard. And promise to recognize the achievement thereof.

You and your wife have set up high standards of achievement, and a good way of living to go with them. If your son can simply be made to understand that what he has now, is yours, and that his participation in the fruits is temporary; he has to earn his own- then, you've gotten somewhere.

Does your wife's firm (and I apologize, I have shamefully forgotten her name and whether she is a solo, small-firm or big-dog, the latter IIRC) have a structure which would allow for occasional hard work by a bright 12-year-old? You may be surprised what value he derives from something like that, and he can see people working hard for what they do.

For that matter, maybe you can find a way to get him involved, on some level, with your stuff, maybe get him to do some research, arrange and label some photographs, put together some comparison charts on performance, specifications, costs, anything, so he is involved there.

Maybe, one of these days, he takes a good picture, gets a photo credit in print, has a modest taste of recognition earned.


When all else fails, beat him senseless. No wait, that's what we do to ourselves when we think we are failing our kids.

Lots of joking about kids, but it ain't easy, because we are playing for keeps.

Living the dream with you, pulling for you, praying for you.

All the best, /s/ Spike
 
I have mentioned this elsewhere, but for public consumption:

Working on a lobster boat and getting a good old "You're not going to graduate, son" from the HS principal really set my arrow straight. You very, very quickly learn the impact of bad decisions when you are 30 miles off shore and rocking in an 8' swell.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
I have mentioned this elsewhere, but for public consumption:

Working on a lobster boat and getting a good old "You're not going to graduate, son" from the HS principal really set my arrow straight. You very, very quickly learn the impact of bad decisions when you are 30 miles off shore and rocking in an 8' swell.

Cheers,

-Andrew

An excellent school!

Question is, is Ken going to move to New England and go into the lobstering game?


Find the analogue to this, Ken. Andrew's on point.
 
Ken, you either have to have a Sino Jewish household (which I have) in which the entire family demands academic effort, and in which that is the unquestioned bedrock of one's very existence ("if you're going to do something don't be half as_ed about it"), or you have to let him fail and swim.

They are going to fail and swim at sometime in their lives and sooner is likely better. My ballerina had to spend her senior year in exile in a 400 nm away city to figure out that "hmmmn. this ain't it, girl, this ain't it."

If the Jacksonville Public Schools are untterly unacceptable, and a safety risk, you go to.....private schools when he realizes the error of his ways. It's either programmed into him by now, or it's not......

You could use both carrot and stick- but in Peoria, IL we're never far away from gangs and poverty and the kids see quickly how bad it is on the other side....in fact just the other day we discovered that little bit of Arkansas in Peoria.
 
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Negotiate a "carrot and stick" contract between parents and child -- establish direct ties between what he wants to do and what you want him to do (no homework=no TV, etc.) and absolute adherence to the deal on both sides. It's important that this be done on a negotiated, not imposed, basis.
 
my teenage years were spent 3-5 nights a week working at my dads pizza place. difference between me and everyone else there was that i actually cared about the place. cant say i didnt benefit from the hard work, although we spent plenty of time goofing off too. had fun, made some money (because the law says i had to be paid), and stayed out of trouble. although i was pretty lazy as far as school work. i always managed to get what needed to be done by the time it was done and got good grades to boot. But really i couldve done a lot more in High school, i just liked working and flying and generally not studying.
 
Need to pose a question. Sorry for the hi-jack Ken.

How many of us "negotiated" with our parents? I am guessing not many.
We got Red Pen marks on our papers and paid the price for them at home.
At my fathers house, it was/still is, you live under my roof you live by my rules!!
His rules included that you WILL do your school work, if you ever plan to go out with your friends.

Well I flunked my entire freshman year at highschool. It was not a pleasant time for me that is for sure. But to graduate, I ended up taking classes at night at the local community college which I had to pay for and I DID graduate.
My point and my question is:
What happened to the days when parents were in charge and children listened to them or paid a steep price for not listening to them?

Mark B
 
Sorry Ken, no advice here, as I 1/2-assed my way onto the honor roll in HS, and 1/4 assed it on to the Dean's list in college.

But you could always find a Zoroastrian named Vilma...
 
Mark you are describing the sino-jewish household to a tee.
 
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Ken, I went through the same thing with my son. He is very bright and was in the “gifted” program for years. He just quit caring about grades. He put stuff off till the last minute. I got called into school to talk with his teachers about his lack of initiative and his not completing assignments. At the time, I was very surprised and didn’t understand what happened to my “straight A student.” Fast forward to present day. He is very successful, is still very bright, and he works and plays well with others. Life is good for him. He has two boys of his own and will probably go through the same thing.

Tom taught middle school for 25 years. His response to your concerns and to the thousands of parents who talked with him at those parent-teacher conferences…"Be patient". Feel free to call him if you want.

I met your son…he’s a great kid. I know that you spend a lot of time with him. He’ll be OK. :)
 
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