PA32 down out of PDK

[RV10flyer]

"The following day the pilot sent a text message to the mechanic and said that the run-up was good, but he wasn't getting full rpm at full power while static."

If one is not seeing full rpm with a CS prop, you better get things checked out and cancel the trip by plane. On my takeoff roll, I am looking for 2700 and 25-26 gph.

 

[midcap]

You can't be serious!?

I only know a little about 172s

 

[EppyGA]

24 pounds over gross, while not good, isn't usually fatal. I think many of us were speculating that he might have been several hundred pounds over just after the accident. Such a sad accident.

What about 24lbs over in a plane you know wasn't performing as it should?

 

[Fearless Tower]

What about 24lbs over in a plane you know wasn't performing as it should?

I think the important point is that it probably would have still crashed if it was 24lbs under gross.

The fact that it was slightly over gross isn't what killed them. Just another nail in the coffin and points to a possibly bigger picture of poor decision making by the pilot.

Lawyers will zero in on it.

 

[EppyGA]

I think the important point is that it probably would have still crashed if it was 24lbs under gross.

The fact that it was slightly over gross isn't what killed them. Just another nail in the coffin and points to a possibly bigger picture of poor decision making by the pilot.

Lawyers will zero in on it.

I don't disagree with that assessment. Truth is he shouldn't have been flying that plane.

 

[scottfromboston]

"The following day the pilot sent a text message to the mechanic and said that the run-up was good, but he wasn't getting full rpm at full power while static."

If one is not seeing full rpm with a CS prop, you better get things checked out and cancel the trip by plane. On my takeoff roll, I am looking for 2700 and 25-26 gph.

On takeoff roll will this sort of malfunction (obstructed fuel system) show up on fuel flow?

FF isn't part of my check but perhaps should be added.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

yes....FF will be lower. Also, an engine monitor will show an imbalance in EGTs and CHTs.

 

[arkvet]

yes....FF will be lower. Also, an engine monitor will show an imbalance in EGTs and CHTs.

How would someone catch this aside from reading the numbers directly during the roll? I ask this because I have a JPI 830 in my IO-540 Saratoga. What exactly do you mean by "imbalances"? I know I have an alarm setting on my 830 for "DIF" which is low/high EGT difference. Could a FF issue cause a notable alarm on the 830 prior to being easily perceived by sound / feel? I ask these questions because although I love my 830 and it's part of my regular "in flight" scan I don't know how closely I could watch it's parameters while multitasking the takeoff roll.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

The issue is lower HP produced due to the restricted fuel flow.....much like excessive leaning at full power. You'll have the max RPMs and Max MP...but less power. The only indication will be reduced fuel flow. If there were clogged injectors you'd have the classic leaned cylinder indication....with a lower CHT and higher EGT on that cylinder (but could be at peak EGT if the clog is not as severe).

So a quick scan of the FF and engine monitor would catch that IMHO.

 

[midcap]

if worried about fuel flow, and the engine making HP, Could you also do some testing at different gross weights on how long it takes you to reach Vr?

I mean for example, lets say you and a Px with full fuel takes 10 seconds to hit Vr when the engine is functioning normally. So, if your timer you set is showing 20 seconds and Vr is not reached yet, I would wager it's a good time to abort, good idea? bad idea?

 

[Fearless Tower]

if worried about fuel flow, and the engine making HP, Could you also do some testing at different gross weights on how long it takes you to reach Vr?

I mean for example, lets say you and a Px with full fuel takes 10 seconds to hit Vr when the engine is functioning normally. So, if your timer you set is showing 20 seconds and Vr is not reached yet, I would wager it's a good time to abort, good idea? bad idea?

Seems easier to calculate your takeoff distance (ground roll) for given conditions and note at what point on the runway you should be lifting off. That will also give you an idea of how much distance is available for abort if necessary.

 

[midcap]

Seems easier to calculate your takeoff distance (ground roll) for given conditions and note at what point on the runway you should be lifting off. That will also give you an idea of how much distance is available for abort if necessary.

even better!

I think that's why I like the airport I train out of so much. 6000 feet and no trees around. Plus there is another 500 feet off the runway that is just grass, then some lights and another 500 feet.

 

[N747JB]

I don't disagree with that assessment. Truth is he shouldn't have been flying that plane.

Not making full power with two on board is different than not making full power with 4 plus a dog and more luggage on board! He "had to get to the wedding."

 

[VA Aviator]

Re: the analysis of the debris...

Is my face red!

I did not read the full report. Nothing lazy about that!

To be fair, I'd like to know more about what the debris was. I'm sure the NTSB's lab is top notch, but is there anyone else out there better equipped to look at this? A university or....???

It would be nice to know if the "stuff" came from something commonly in use in fuel systems, whether in aircraft or in the distribution network.

You can't be serious!?

Some older aircraft (commonly cubs) were equipped with glass bowl gascolators. Most have been replaced with metal for good reasons.

 

[Rotero]

Last year we didn't have too much to learn from this unfortunate accident, besides it could happen to anyone, anywhere, anytime, as a tragic lotto where each of us have one or several numbers playing. With the NTSB report there is much to learn. Well, we can breathe again...