PA28 into Home (PDK)

IFR conditions today in Atlanta. Sad.
 
midwestpa24 said:
The pieces appear to be parts of or possibly the entire wing. 500 feet in a high impact crash isn't terribly far, I've seen debris in one crash much farther as the aircraft violently tumbled on impact.
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I'm trying to reconcile the wing being where it is with the damage to the building, which is concentrated on the upper part. If the ground impact happened 500 feet away, I'd expect the building impact to be at ground level. That, plus there is some additional debris scattered around the area, gives me the impression this was an inflight breakup.

Even stranger, investigators are still looking for the second person who was in the aircraft.
 
FormerHangie said:
I'm trying to reconcile the wing being where it is with the damage to the building, which is concentrated on the upper part. If the ground impact happened 500 feet away, I'd expect the building impact to be at ground level. That, plus there is some additional debris scattered around the area, gives me the impression this was an inflight breakup.

Even stranger, investigators are still looking for the second person who was in the aircraft.
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I would say it's somewhat clear that the wing(s) shown at a distance weren't on the part of the plane that hit the apartment building. My guess is a panic pull when the ground first came into sight. :/ From what I know from other accidents the fuselage often doesn't stay intact, with the wings taking parts of the structure with it, and the skin, which is structural, being peeled back like a tin can. :(
 
Sucks to hear. How low was it in that area??
 
Chester Clark III said:
I would say it's somewhat clear that the wing(s) shown at a distance weren't on the part of the plane that hit the apartment building. My guess is a panic pull when the ground first came into sight. :/ From what I know from other accidents the fuselage often doesn't stay intact, with the wings taking parts of the structure with it, and the skin, which is structural, being peeled back like a tin can. :(
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You'd have to pull really, really hard or be going really fast (for a Cherokee) to pull a wing off. The wing would be at least a 6 G wing (at ultimate load) so you'd need to be going >2.4x stall speed to fail the wing. Assymetric loads would reduce the margins, but again, its hard to pull the wings off a Cherokee at reasonable speeds.
 
Chester Clark III said:
I would say it's somewhat clear that the wing(s) shown at a distance weren't on the part of the plane that hit the apartment building. My guess is a panic pull when the ground first came into sight. :/ From what I know from other accidents the fuselage often doesn't stay intact, with the wings taking parts of the structure with it, and the skin, which is structural, being peeled back like a tin can. :(
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That's plausible. The pilot goes into the soup, becomes disoriented, gets into a spiral, and when he/she breaks out of the overcast, pulls on the yoke for all its worth, causing a structural failure. ASN says it was an Arrow II, N56258, if any Cherokee would be be able to go fast enough to fail the wings, it would be an Arrow.

benyflyguy said:
Sucks to hear. How low was it in that area??
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WSB TV reports PDK weather at the time was 400 feet, 3 miles visibility.

kyleb said:
You'd have to pull really, really hard or be going really fast (for a Cherokee) to pull a wing off. The wing would be at least a 6 G wing (at ultimate load) so you'd need to be going >2.4x stall speed to fail the wing. Assymetric loads would reduce the margins, but again, its hard to pull the wings off a Cherokee at reasonable speeds.
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Doesn't an Arrow cruise around 250% of stall speed? Another possibility is that this Arrow had undiagnosed spar cracks or corrosion, and normal flight loads finally caused it to fail.

FlightAware shows he filed from PDK to Salisbury, NC this morning.
 
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kyleb said:
You'd have to pull really, really hard or be going really fast (for a Cherokee) to pull a wing off. The wing would be at least a 6 G wing (at ultimate load) so you'd need to be going >2.4x stall speed to fail the wing. Assymetric loads would reduce the margins, but again, its hard to pull the wings off a Cherokee at reasonable speeds.
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I do believe an in-flight breakup is not an unheard of event for a PA-28.....
 
FormerHangie said:
ASN says it was an Arrow II, N56258, if any Cherokee would be be able to go fast enough to fail the wings, it would be an Arrow.
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That makes more sense. I'd gotten the impression somewhere that it was a plain 'ol Cherokee.
 
Other forums reporting ATC audio congruent with someone succumbing to spatial D. Weather certainly looked favorable for it.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Other forums reporting ATC audio congruent with someone succumbing to spatial D. Weather certainly looked favorable for it.
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Ugh. That would be tough to listen to if he was talking/panicking.
Hitting the junk early especially with a little turbulence can be extremely disorienting-add some extra radio work with hand flying it. Doesn’t take long to get in trouble.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Other forums reporting ATC audio congruent with someone succumbing to spatial D. Weather certainly looked favorable for it.
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With that low of a ceiling sounds like maybe a not very proficient instrument pilot.
 
Your mind set definitely has to be to get on those instruments ASAP.
 
2300 FPM climb is not something a Turbo Arrow would do for very long, let alone an Arrow II. This definitely sounds like spatial.
 
N1120A said:
2300 FPM climb is not something a Turbo Arrow would do for very long, let alone an Arrow II. This definitely sounds like spatial.
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Slight nit pick. Turbos don't improve climb rate, they just slow down the climb rate loss (until critical altitude) at higher DA is all. A Turbo arrow is only rated at 200HP (continuous) as well, which means it climbs just as poorly as a NA Arrow. Actually, they climb worse at their MGW (2900#) than a II at its MGW (2650#) since climb rate is a function of power loading in otherwise identical airframe. So anywhere in Atlanta it's not gonna have climb rate advantage over a NA arrow.

Now the Arrow I really want, the PA-28R-300, that sucker will do 2300FPM. :D
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