PA-28 Spar

brien23

brien23

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Brien
Anybody know of a repair kit for PA-28-151 aft spar center carry through crack lower right corner.:(
 
No help on repair but if the spar carry-through has a crack then maybe spend some extra time looking at the fore- and aft-wing attachment points. Piper had the parts on the shelf to replace rather than repair if that's any help.
 
brien23 said:
Anybody know of a repair kit for PA-28-151 aft spar center carry through crack lower right corner.:(
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New replacement parts from Piper and a rebuild of the carry-thru is probably all you'll be able to find. Since it's a critical load-bearing part of the structure, I'd seriously doubt there's any kind of approved doubler/patch type of fix for such.

I'd be really concerned as to finding out why it cracked. Spar carry-thru cracks (either the front main spar box or rear spar carry-thru) in the PA28 are pretty rare for this airframe. Corrosion in the rear spar attach brackets (steel riveted to aluminum) is pretty common and there's an SAIB out for that.
 
Neal Howard said:
I'd be really concerned as to finding out why it cracked. Spar carry-thru cracks (either the front main spar box or rear spar carry-thru) in the PA28 are pretty rare for this airframe. Corrosion in the rear spar attach brackets (steel riveted to aluminum) is pretty common and there's an SAIB out for that.
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Left wing outboard leading edge was replaced with new leading edge.
 
brien23 said:
Left wing outboard leading edge was replaced with new leading edge.
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When you said "aft spar center carry through crack lower right corner" I presume you mean the lower right hand corner of the rear spar's carry-thru as you're facing it, sitting in the cabin looking towards the tail end? If so, then a wing strike on the left wing could definitely account for that.

I was more concerned about a crack due to fatigue, since there's history of a Warrior that was used extensively for pipeline patrol lost a wing in flight... main spar cracked in two, and in the wreckage they also found evidence of fatigue cracks all over both main spar box and rear spar carry-thru in the cabin. That plane must have been beat to hell in low-level turbulence for a few years before it finally killed its pilot.
 
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The crack also had a stop drill hole in the spar, so someone saw it, not sure who or when nothing in the book's.
 
brien23 said:
The crack also had a stop drill hole in the spar, so someone saw it, not sure who or when nothing in the book's.
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On the one I'm familiar with the owner flew it with a cracked structure for about 10 years - that's the best we could figure from the aircraft's history. Pretty good testament to the strength of the structure. It was about 17 AMU to repair back to new condition (new parts).
 
brien23 said:
The crack also had a stop drill hole in the spar, so someone saw it, not sure who or when nothing in the book's.
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Oh man, that's disturbing.

If you just bought that plane, I would be contacting a lawyer.

If it's not something that can be swapped out w a serviceable part, a DER should be able to find a safe and legal way to make a repair.


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buy another plane, move your engine, prop, interior onto it
 
Your an A&P-IA, design the repair, do the 337 and get it approved.

Piper's structural repair manual is so easy to understand and use. it should be a breeze.

or buy a new carry thru and replace it as a major repair.
 
Tom-D said:
Your an A&P-IA, design the repair, do the 337 and get it approved.

Piper's structural repair manual is so easy to understand and use. it should be a breeze.

or buy a new carry thru and replace it as a major repair.
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So show us the reference in the Piper Structural Repair Manual for this.
 
RotorAndWing said:
So show us the reference in the Piper Structural Repair Manual for this.
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Have you ever read the Piper structural repair manual ??

I was being sarcastic but again, you make the wrong assumption.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Sure Tom, go to the FSDO and ask an AW ASI to draw you up a repair for this. :rolleyes2:

Let us know how that works out.
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shows how little you really know about how to submit a 337 for pre-approval.

Some day you will learn to not read into a sentence what isn't there.
I'd guess it due to knowing nothing about how the system works.
 
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brien23 said:
Anybody know of a repair kit for PA-28-151 aft spar center carry through crack lower right corner.:(
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And this aircraft has no damage history.
 

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RotorAndWing said:
Actually it sounds like one you've been doing your "$200 annuals" on. :rolleyes2:
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OBTW I completed 2 Annuals for free this month. don't that just chap your cheeks.

You don't even know where the aircraft is located.
Again you've made the assumption that Brien is too stupid to know how to gain approval for a repair. He simply asked if any one knew of a kit to repair the spar, and you believe that requires a DER, Your statements demonstrate your ignorance of the methods used in the field.
 
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So.......

Now I am curious Tom....

What kind of repair can you perform in the field that will legally address that crack... :dunno::dunno:...
 
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N801BH said:
So.......

Now I an curious Tom....

What kind of repair can you perform in the field that will legally address that crack... :dunno::dunno:...
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Short answer.
Any thing the FSDO ASI will approve.

You use the structural repair manual or any other approved data to design the repair, submit it on a 337 to your FSDO ASI, for approval.

Were I doing this repair, I'd have the owner buy a new part from a Piper parts supplier. And submit a 337 to document the major repair.

Block #8 would read some thing like this.

Removed the rear carry thru P/N______. and replaced it with replacement parts from Piper Aircraft. IAW instructions given in the structural repair manual.

Keep in mind this is a huge job. The wings must come off, fuselage must be supported (the gear is in the wings) the major portion of the interior must be removed, all cables running aft must be disconnected.

My cost to do this will be more that the PA-28 is worth.

If I were offered this job I'd refuse the offer at any price.

The only time you'd see my signature in this aircraft's maintenance records would be saying.

"This aircraft is unairworthy due to a cracked rear spar carry thru. and is unsafe to fly."

Remember the rules say when you inspect any aircraft there must be an entry stating what type of inspection was completed or if it was stop, the reason it was stopped and what portion was completed.
 
brien23 said:
The crack also had a stop drill hole in the spar, so someone saw it, not sure who or when nothing in the book's.
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To me, R&W and others.. This is a downright dealbreaker and basically the aircraft is unairworthy....

How does the OP research and find the person who stop drilled a crack in such a critical place and didn't enter it in the logs..
Tom says to design a repair and float the idea to the local FSDO , but we all know that ain't gonna hold traction even on a perfect day...

So, does the OP disclose this to the FAA , or zip his lips and eat the junk airframe ?:dunno:....
 
Tom-D said:
And this aircraft has no recorded damage history.
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FTFY.

First, I don't think you'd find an ASI willing to sign off a 337 for that type of repair.

Second, the only repair I'd consider airworthy is replacement of the carry-through, and as stated, it may cost more than the value of the plane.
 
Tom-D said:
OBTW I completed 2 Annuals for free this month. don't that just chap your cheeks.
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Since all it requires from you is a signature I'm really not surprised. :rolleyes2:

And you're right, it couldn't have been one of your annuals on the PA28. The hole was stop drilled, meaning someone actually opened up the airplane to look, so that eliminates you. :lol:

Tom-D said:
You don't even know where the aircraft is located.
Again you've made the assumption that Brien is too stupid to know how to gain approval for a repair. He simply asked if any one knew of a kit to repair the spar, and you believe that requires a DER, Your statements demonstrate your ignorance of the methods used in the field.
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Please show us where one may acquire a "kit" for this repair. Or is it found in the "Structural Repair Manual"? :rofl:
 
RotorAndWing said:
Please show us where one may acquire a "kit" for this repair. Or is it found in the "Structural Repair Manual"? :rofl:
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Did you finally catch on??

That is what Brian is asking. Wake up answer the simple question.

is there a kit? Will Piper manufacture a kit for the repair?

But of course you'd not know, you can't down load it from the internet.
 
Tom-D said:
Your an A&P-IA, design the repair, do the 337 and get it approved.

Piper's structural repair manual is so easy to understand and use. it should be a breeze.

or buy a new carry thru and replace it as a major repair.
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All I can find is this:
Piper Cherokee Service Manual said:
4-57 STRUCTURAL REPAIRS. Structural repair methods may be made in accordance with the regulations set forth in Federal Aeronautics Manual 18, or FAA Advisory Circular 43.13-1A. To assist in making repairs, Figure 4-10 identifies type and thickness of skin structure used. Never make a skin replacement or patch from a material thinner than the origional skin. Origional material and thickness is reccomened, and must result in a surface which is as strong as, or stronger than, the origional skin. However, flexibility must be retained so that the surrounding areas will not receive extra stress.
When making major structural repairs, other than using factory manufactured parts, it is reccommended that the manufacturer be contacted. No major alterations are reccommended without contacting the manufacturer.
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N801BH said:
To me, R&W and others.. This is a downright dealbreaker and basically the aircraft is unairworthy....

If the aircraft was given to you as part of an other deal, would you try to repair it?

How does the OP research and find the person who stop drilled a crack in such a critical place and didn't enter it in the logs..

If the wing repair that shows as the new leading edge wasn't logged it will be very difficult.But I'll bet my boots it happened at the same time.

Tom says to design a repair and float the idea to the local FSDO , but we all know that ain't gonna hold traction even on a perfect day…

How do believe these repairs get approved?You design the repair properly, use the proper data, it will be approved.

So, does the OP disclose this to the FAA , or zip his lips and eat the junk airframe ?:dunno:....
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In this case you do what's right, the FAA will probably look at it shrug their shoulder take the Airworthiness certificate and tell you to reapply when it is repaired to airworthy condition.

And isn't that where Brien is now?
 
Tom-D said:
In this case you do what's right, the FAA will probably look at it shrug their shoulder take the Airworthiness certificate and tell you to reapply when it is repaired to airworthy condition.
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BS.gif


The FAA will not "take the AW certificate" and make you "reapply when it is repaired".

Are you now gonna claim the FAA will come in wearing a gun and take it by force, like you tried to claim here? :

Tom-D said:
MY PMI at FSDO is a LEO for the federal government, he has the badge, and gun, and he will place a big red sticker over the door seam of your aircraft when he has cause.
.
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:rofl:
 
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RotorAndWing said:
BS.

The FAA will not "take the AW certificate" and make you "reapply when it is repaired".

Show us in FAA Order 8900.1 where that is found.
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Proves once again you don't know how the FAA works in the field.
 
Gee, Tom.

It's almost like you've got your very own cyberstalker to follow you around the board and counter-post each of your contributions.

Does he do this to other aspects of your life and business as well? :rolleyes2:
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
Gee, Tom.

It's almost like you've got your very own cyberstalker to follow you around the board and counter-post each of your contributions.

Does he do this to other aspects of your life and business as well? :rolleyes2:
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He's just jealous of what I do, because he can't compete in the same class of workmanship.
 
Tom-D said:
In this case you do what's right, the FAA will probably look at it shrug their shoulder take the Airworthiness certificate and tell you to reapply when it is repaired to airworthy condition.

And isn't that where Brien is now?
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Not true. I was once doing a pre-buy on a Cherokee that had wing skins installed with countersunk rivets on the inboard skins. Called the feds, and they hung a condition notice on it. The C of A remained in the plane. The resulting investigation resulted in an IA getting his ass burned.
 
Norman said:
Not true. I was once doing a pre-buy on a Cherokee that had wing skins installed with countersunk rivets on the inboard skins. Called the feds, and they hung a condition notice on it. The C of A remained in the plane. The resulting investigation resulted in an IA getting his ass burned.
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results vary from FSDO to FSDO. inspector to inspector, and is influenced by the attitude of the people they must deal with.

When the FSDO hangs a tag on it the results are the same.

you are going to jump thru the hoops they want you to before they buy off on it.
 
I didn't have to jump through any hoops. The IA who signed off the repair was the one on the hot seat. I just parked the plane outside while the investigation was going on.
 
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