Oxygen use and training for such?

4

4RNB

Line Up and Wait
PoA Supporter
Joined
May 24, 2016
Messages
962
Display Name
Display name:
4RNB
What kind of training is provided to pilots with regards to specific oxygen delivery systems? I'd recently observed two people in a plane using face mask oxygen, the kind with a bag that hangs down. The bags were decompressed, nothing was in them. One of the masks was not transparent, the one that was transparent had what appeared to be condensation inside the mask.

I ask coming from a healthcare background saving lives during acute events and an early rule was to turn up the oxygen all the way and to FILL THE BAG. Condensation inside a mask suggested flow was too low. Bags not filled suggested they were not breathing in pure or desired amounts of oxygen and the users were rebreathing old or thinner air.

Are pilots taught what oxygen delivery methods are preferred for different altitudes? For example, a nasal canula has a maximum percent oxygen that it can deliver (unless it is a high flow system) and more oxygen can be used via face mask. Then again, there are many style face masks with adjustments to be made for flow and desired percent O2.

Thank you.
 

Attachments

  • O2.PNG
    O2.PNG
    724.5 KB · Views: 146
Nope, we learn “on the fly”.

What I learned I had to research.

EDIT;
Assuming I’m not concerned with wasting O2, and my pulse oximeter is accurate, can this idiot (me), just turn the regulator knob until I get the saturation I want? Isn’t that the #1 goal?
 
Last edited:
Day to day general Aviation in a spam can below 18,000 msl isn’t the same as an acute medical emergency. The bags are reservoirs to avoid full flow of O2, but is supplemental O2.

Check out aerox.com or mhoxygen.com for details.
 
Last edited:
Oxygen use is 100% self taught for small spam cans. In fact, I’d say most entry-level CFIs have not used oxygen themselves.
 
Did a flight to 13,000 a few weeks back. My wife was with. She's got lots of time in GA and commercial (regional). I believe it was the first time she had ever tried/used O2 in a GA plane in 30yrs of flying.
 
As @murphey said, the goals for using oxygen in aviation differ from those in medical use.

There is no formal training required, and therefore very little formal training exists. The documentation provided by the system manufacturer should outline proper operation and limitations, and as always, it’s ultimately the pilots responsibility to ensure that it is used properly.
 
The first time I used O2 in my new-to-me PA-32 was during the high performance training I received. The final training flight was at 16,500. We adjusted the flow valves so that we could feel the O2 in our nostrils using cannulas. I also played with a face mask which had a mic built in, but found it uncomfortable and awkward. We consumed what should have been 6 user-hours of O2 in about an hour. A few months later I was at 17,500 with a pulsometer. Tested at 97 on the ground then went up and tested at various altitudes. I discovered that an almost unnoticeable flow was necessary to maintain a 92-95 reading. In fact, the valve was so minimally open that I checked my blood oxygen stats almost constantly. At that flow rate my O2 tank would deliver for about 6 hours as per original specification. I think the flow rate does depend upon the individual and their health, but for a relatively healthy pilot, it doesn't seem to take much oxygen to maintain a safe O2 level.

Although my CFI was ex-military and was very familiar with oxygen systems, he didn't have much advice on the actual use in my Cherokee.

For me, having the pulsometer in the cockpit is a necessity when using O2. It's just too risky to accidentally suffer hypoxia and yet a noticeable flow rate would prematurely deplete the tank.
 
Two tools: a pulse oximeter and a real in-line O2 flow gauge.

I used Oximiser canula s in the teens and full mask at 19 and above. With the flow gauges I could tell 1) that O2 was actually flowing, and 2) note the rate at which it got me into the desired range on the pulse oximeter. Easy enough to do.
 
My cannulas and face masks have flowmeters in the tubing, which have altitude scales so you can tell when you have an appropriate amount of flow. The packaging for the cannulas specifies that they are only for use up to 18,000 feet, and that's the highest marking on the flowmeter scale. The scale on the mask flowmeters goes up to 25,000 feet.

The flowmeters just have a floating ball, so I assume that you have to hold them vertically when reading them.
 
It’s too bad more pilots do not have access to an Altitude Chamber. I have been there

twice. One MIL and one civilian. The chamber allows you to learn your personal “ signs”

of hypoxia rather than go by some somewhat rather arbitrary numbers.

I believe there is a cost effective way to do this with a mask and varying oxygen-nitrogen

mixtures. This is one area where 70 % is not a passing grade.
 
The bag doesn't need to blow up like a balloon. It's just a small reservoir to average out the difference between the continuous flow of O2 coming from the bottle to the periodic breathing of the user.
 
4RNB said:
What kind of training is provided to pilots with regards to specific oxygen delivery systems? I'd recently observed two people in a plane using face mask oxygen, the kind with a bag that hangs down. The bags were decompressed, nothing was in them. One of the masks was not transparent, the one that was transparent had what appeared to be condensation inside the mask.

I ask coming from a healthcare background saving lives during acute events and an early rule was to turn up the oxygen all the way and to FILL THE BAG. Condensation inside a mask suggested flow was too low. Bags not filled suggested they were not breathing in pure or desired amounts of oxygen and the users were rebreathing old or thinner air.

Are pilots taught what oxygen delivery methods are preferred for different altitudes? For example, a nasal canula has a maximum percent oxygen that it can deliver (unless it is a high flow system) and more oxygen can be used via face mask. Then again, there are many style face masks with adjustments to be made for flow and desired percent O2.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

I guess the short answer is the FAA has not seen an accident trend from improperly used O2 equipment and does not require additional training. Like RNAV equipment, I believe the FAA doesn’t wade into the training because there is a lot of options available. Additionally CFIs are not required to be trained in O2 systems and he majority are unable to provide the training.

Like RNAV, the O2 equipment manufactures are depended on to provide adequate operational information.


Two risks from improper use is hypoxia and hyperventilation, which can occur simultaneously with 100% O2 correcting the situation.

Onboard O2 systems are inspected as part of the annual inspection. Portable systems are totally unregulated and pilots can and do build their own systems.
 
Magman said:
I believe there is a cost effective way to do this with a mask and varying oxygen-nitrogen

mixtures.
Click to expand...
The Navy started using ROBD (reduced oxygen breathing device) to train aviators about the onset of hypoxia. It uses the same O2 mask that we flew with and regulates the O2/N2 mix. They have you strap into the NOMO sim and start flying. There is no real indication of when they reduce your O2. In the chamber, it is obvious that "you're going up." Not so much with this device.
 
It seems to me that regardless of the method used the objective is that a person
can learn their particular signs. For me ; “ turning blue” is way, way too late of a warning. What other objective would either type serve?
 
I was in the chamber and they took us to FL250. I could barely sign my name. I couldn’t do 2+2, and absolutely EVERYTHING was “hilarious” to me for some reason.

I’m a lightweight, for sure.
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top