Overnighting at FBO's in the frigid north

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sixpacker

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Sixpacker
This is a question for those of you who live up where the temperatures struggle to get above freezing.

Why?

:D No seriously my question is how do you handle flying somewhere for the weekend? Do FBO's up there have places where you can plug your engine heaters in? Do you rely on heated hangars? Or just not fly to cold destinations in winter?
 
Heated hangar, FBO preheat ears, or places to plug in...any or all work!
 
Our planes at the flight school are always pre heated outside that way we don't really have to ground any flights due to the cold weather. I'm sure if you are parking at an FBO over the weekend you can have them pre heat it before you arrive back to the airport or pay a little extra dough for them to keep it in a heated hangar.
 
Call the FBO and ask. At KAOH (NW ohio) they will offer you a T-hangar with extension cord (for yer preheater) for $20 night. Or you can put the plane in a large, heated hangar for $50/night.

It was -15C when I got there and about 15kts of wind. I ran from the plane into the FBO and told the sherpa (this time of the year they are not line guys) to put it in the hangar for me.
 
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Every airport is different. The bigger the more facilities, but often the higher the price. I landed in Cedar Rapids, it was around 15 below with 40 knot winds, and was forecasted to get worse overnight.

It was $100 for the night in a heated hangar, but it was worth it to unload, load and preflight in the nice warm hangar.
 
I live in MI since a few months back but used to live in Northern MN. (Almost on the Canadian border).

In General it is not very cold here close to Detroit so I assume when you refer to fridgid North you mean somewhere cold.

Plug ins are available at most places I went to and some FBO's have heated hangars. If I left my Cirrus outside I put a cover on it to avoid frost / ice and then plungged in the engine heater plus a cabin heater.
 
Electrical outlets will be pretty uncommon. Don't ever expect to have one anywhere but you're home parking space. Empty heated transient hangar space will be first come, first serve. Call ahead if you can. And never assume you'll have it available. Most FBO's will have pre-heat service available though. They'll come out to the plane with a propane or gas fired preheater and warm it up for you. It's usually $20-$30. But bear in mind that requires you to be leaving during normal hours. If you intend to depart after they close for the night, prepare for the cost of after-hours on-call service too.
 
Reedster said:
Every airport is different.
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Yep. The small airports may or may not be plowed much less have a heated hangar or outlet to plug the plane in. Your best bet is to call ahead and see what services are available and if anyone is going to be around when you show up and want to leave.

Your best bet is to be self supporting. I have equipment to preheat the plane that I carry along when it is cold so I don't have to rely on an FBO. Many of the places I visit are unattended on nights and weekends.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
Electrical outlets will be pretty uncommon. Don't ever expect to have one anywhere but you're home parking space. Empty heated transient hangar space will be first come, first serve. Call ahead if you can. And never assume you'll have it available. Most FBO's will have pre-heat service available though. They'll come out to the plane with a propane or gas fired preheater and warm it up for you. It's usually $20-$30. But bear in mind that requires you to be leaving during normal hours. If you intend to depart after they close for the night, prepare for the cost of after-hours on-call service too.
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Or bring a small portable generator. Fire it up and you have 110v. (Off course you will need to run it a few hours) one of my buddy's with a C300 always carried one on the skid but again this was in colder climates.
 
Yep, heated hangars.

Having a cowl blanket of some type can help in a pinch.
 
If the airport has a full service FBO they'll have some way of pre-heating, likely some sort of fuel fired burner with flexible heat ducts and bunch of quilted blankets. OTOH if you've got a Tanis engine heater installed you might find they've got a big cold hangar with electrical outlets inside (carry your own 50' heavy duty extension cord). The nicest of course is space in a heated hangar, especially if you picked up some ice on the approach….so you'll have a clean dry warm airplane the next morning. These options are in progressive order of convenience and price :)
 
MauleSkinner said:
Heated hangar, FBO preheat ears, or places to plug in...any or all work!
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:yeahthat: I've used all of the above. But I cancelled a flight yesterday and drove seven hours because of the forecast for today. Was glad I did when I woke up to snow, freezing mist, 200' OVC and an eight of a mile. The van was an ice brick after sitting out. Without a hangar a plane would have been a mess.

Driving home today at one point I passed a windmill about 1/4 mile off the highway. I could make out about 30' of the main mast. No hint of anything higher.

Good day to be down here wishing I was up there.
 
Don't do that many overnight trips when the mercury drops, and if I do its to someplace warm. I do carry a spare extension cord and hope for lots of luck. Flying VFR you never now when you're going to end up.
 
If you call ahead you can often get either inside parking or close enough to plug your block heater in. I remember one cold december we'd left the plane at Dulles. I called the FBO in the evening asking if they could either put it in the hangar or plug in the block heater. I came out the next morning to find it in the hangar AND plugged in. I slipped the line guy a $20.
 
I carry a combustion heater as part of my winter survival gear but for normal ops I use a 1000w Yamaha generator. I carry it with if I need to. I live in the frozen north, park outdoors 100% of the time, and have no access to electricity unless I make my own. As for accommodations? I carry a tent and a -40* sleeping bag in case the weather makes me spend a night or two away from a bed. Sleeping in a Cessna is no bargain. A tent on the ground is much warmer. Don't forget engine and wing covers!
 
Several years ago I flew into Lansing, IL and they rolled the bird into a heated hangar the morning of my departure. Can't recall the cost but it was minimal considering everything else we spend.
 
Thanks for all the advice. So when you get parked in a heated hangar do you make sure they only pull it out when you're at the airport ready to go?
 
sixpacker said:
Thanks for all the advice. So when you get parked in a heated hangar do you make sure they only pull it out when you're at the airport ready to go?
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If I have paid for the hangar, I always load and perform my preflight in there.

So far I have never had an issue having them pull it out after I am done. I guess you could wait a bit if they are busy, but I have always been lucky with that.
 
sixpacker said:
Thanks for all the advice. So when you get parked in a heated hangar do you make sure they only pull it out when you're at the airport ready to go?
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For sure I wouldn't let 'em pull it out too early unless you've got good engine covers. If it's cold and windy outside uncovered air-cooled engines cool off mighty fast.
 
Full Tanis heater, zippered engine blanket, $5 'plugin fee'.

If the plane is really cold, the gyro instruments will take their sweet time to become reliable. If it is really cold, it is usually clear.
 
Extension cord ,plug in at night. In the Am plug in cabin heater,for cockpit. Patience is a virtue.
 
dans2992 said:
Is an oil pan heater enough?
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For 'really cold' you need the plugs/bands in the cylinder heads. Warm oil in the pan doesn't help you if the heads are full of jell-o. If it is cold the barrels lose enough heat for the heads to remain frozen.
 
Drain your oil when its still warm then in the morning heat it in the FBO microwave. Pour it in and you are good to go. :)
 
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sixpacker said:
This is a question for those of you who live up where the temperatures struggle to get above freezing.

Why?

:D No seriously my question is how do you handle flying somewhere for the weekend? Do FBO's up there have places where you can plug your engine heaters in? Do you rely on heated hangars? Or just not fly to cold destinations in winter?
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Engine manufacturers have published instructions to cold starting and pre-heating requirements. the engine's the easy part. Sub-freezing temps can make stubborn ice on the airplane and that's a lot tougher to deal with than a cold engine. Cold temps warrant cover whether by roof or by using close-fitting aircraft covers. Vis queen or a poly tarp will work in a pinch. At 20* I won't worry about my engine but I'm forced to deal with wing and tail frost. Preventative action is much easier than corrective action.
 
dans2992 said:
Is an oil pan heater enough?
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Like weilke said, for really cold temps, you need to heat the rest of the engine too. Ted's 'How to make your engine last' threads in the maintenance forum provide a good description of engine preheat systems.

Oil pan heaters by themselves are handy if you aren't flying in really cold temps, but you just want to reduce the time it takes to get the oil temp up before takeoff.

I am going to install an oil pan heater on the Waco - I won't fly it below freezing, but even with OAT in the 40's and low 50's it takes 20 minutes of ground running to get the 4 gallons of oil up to temp.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Drain your oil when its still warm then in the morning heat it in the FBO microwave. Pour it in and you are good to go. :)
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Please, even with the smiley people will take you seroiusly. Don't do this!
 
flyingron said:
Please, even with the smiley people will take you seroiusly. Don't do this!
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Don't worry Ron, everyone knows that you use the coffeemaker, not the microwave. Sheesh!
 
flyingron said:
Please, even with the smiley people will take you seroiusly. Don't do this!
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I dont think he is kidding. Not exactly the microwave, but draining your oil and warming it on your campfire is one way to un-freeze your plane after an unplanned overnight in the alaskan bush.
 
Not exactly. Draining cold oil is about impossible so old timers would drain the oil right after landing and take it inside with them. It doesn't do much. Pouring warm oil into a cold-soaked 300# chunk of steel has little merit but I guess every little thing adds up. My plane had an oil dilution system from the factory.

Old dudes I know had Wham-O white gas catalytic heaters. Those were standard pre-heat equipment back in the day.
 
Yeah, they used to do it that way. It works at least somewhat. Better than nothing I guess.

My father spent some time in Alaska in the Army writing manuals on how to do Army artillery and trucks and such. They would go to a lake near Big Delta when it was 40-60 below. Stop the vehicles for 24 hours and see if they could get them started. What they did was light a fire under the oil pan of the battery truck (all batteries, no guns), and get THAT one started. Then go around and start the others. Then they would fire their artillery and see if they could hit anything. Artillery, and even long range rifle shooting uses density altitude btw. Different ballistic tables for different density altitudes!
 
So to summarize, this is exactly the question that a phone call to the FBO will answer.
Sometimes your choice of airport will depend on the facilities available, and the cost, if there are alternatives in the area.
Jon
 
4CornerFlyer said:
So to summarize, this is exactly the question that a phone call to the FBO will answer.

Sometimes your choice of airport will depend on the facilities available, and the cost, if there are alternatives in the area.

Jon
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Get out! Actually get on the phone and TALK to a real person who might actually know what the airport has???
 
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