Overhaul, phase I

timwinters

timwinters

Ejection Handle Pulled
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
13,732
Location
Conway, MO
Display Name
Display name:
LTD
Time for Overhaul, phase I

So,

I had small bronze chips under my rocker covers when I pulled them...almost all of them. So, the metal was distributed through the engine and with over 1300hrs (and 13 years) smoh, it's time to do a complete job.

So,

I called 4 OH shops:

Jewell in Kennett, MO
Poplar Grove in IL
G & N in IN (greater Chicago area)
and
Gann Aviation in Lafayette, GA.

All were essentially the same price (within $1k). But...

I was most impressed with Carlus Gann and he was who my cylinder guy recommended as building one of the best engines in the country these days. And my cylinder guy is a friend and one I regard quite highly (Seth @ P.A.P.),

So, we're:

Ovehauling to new limits with new OEM cylinders.
Balance to 1 gram.
Case will be doweled and o-ringed
Of course, all items will be sent out to the appropriate shops for machining.
Includes all new or O.H.'ed accessories excepting vac pump, alt & prop gov.

And, I'm upgrading to the "performance" overhaul which includes all of Seth's additional magic.

Port and polish
Balance and blueprint
High performance valve job with honed quides warranted to TBO
Alodyned heads (for cooler running)
crynogenic treatment
and maybe a few other things that maybe I shouldn't mention here :wink2:

There's more detail...but that's all my scribbled notes tell me right now.

Let the games begin...
 
Last edited:
How long until it's returned and installed?
 
Re: Time for Overhaul, phase I

Probably a stupid question, but do you reassemble the engine and fly your plane to the OH shop, or do you ship the engine to them, and have it reinstalled by your mechanic?
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
How long until it's returned and installed?
Click to expand...

likely about 5 weeks. They say three to four so...

asgcpa said:
What is engine make/model? $$ approx?
Click to expand...

Continental O470L

All in, including local mechanic's R&R, all new hoses and exhaust system, OH prop & governor, motor mount, install new lord mounts, misc parts and he'll throw in an annual inspection while it's apart...

...wait for it...

$25k?

no

$35k (ish). Worst case scenario...hopefully...at least that's what I asked for. Hence items like all new exhaust. My exhaust system was new 1200 hours ago and may test fine, we'll see.

Of course, this assumes everything in the bottom end of the engine is okay.

nddons said:
Probably a stupid question, but do you reassemble the engine and fly your plane to the OH shop, or do you ship the engine to them, and have it reinstalled by your mechanic?
Click to expand...

Since I found bronze in the rocker covers...it's not being flown anywhere. It'll be R&R'ed by the local mechanic and shipped.

Actually, I'm going to drive it to Lafayette, GA next Monday and help tear it apart Tuesday morning. I want to see the guts when it comes apart.
 
Last edited:
Oh...and maybe add another $1500 to $2000...

I think I'll have a pre-oiler installed...

(Yes, I do plan to KEEP it!) :)
 
timwinters said:
likely about 5 weeks. They say three to four so...



Continental O470L

All in, including local mechanic's R&R, all new hoses and exhaust system, OH prop & governor, motor mount, install new lord mounts, misc parts and he'll throw in an annual inspection while it's apart...

...wait for it...

$25k?

no

$35k (ish). Worst case scenario...hopefully...at least that's what I asked for. Hence items like all new exhaust. My exhaust system was new 1200 hours ago and may test fine, we'll see.

Of course, this assumes everything in the bottom end of the engine is okay.



Since I found bronze in the rocker covers...it's not being flown anywhere. It'll be R&R'ed by the local mechanic and shipped.

Actually, I'm going to drive it to Lafayette, GA next Monday and help tear it apart Tuesday morning. I want to see the guts when it comes apart.
Click to expand...

That's precisely why many that would like to own aircraft don't.
 
Especially since I think I'm going back to work after the first of the year <shudders> and I think my first project is going to be in Ocala, FL.

With my last job, that's how I got to work on Monday and home in Friday. From Missouri to Brunswick, Ga...to Cleveland...to Watertown, SD...to Dallas...and all points inbetwixt! It's a great (and economical) aircraft for that.

Beats the hell out of driving...
 
Tim, does the Pponk conversion apply to your engine?
 
As an aside, I tend to think if you're overhauling the engine, it'd be good to add the heavy case...
 
Brad Z said:
How do you figure double the cost?
Click to expand...

Who's going to quibble over a couple thousands one way or the other.

he's at 25k the PeePonk is closer to 50K, specifically if he must buy a case and crank.
 
Can you legally run mogas (non-100LL) in the PPonk?

I bet it needs a different prop. $$$$$
 
bnt83 said:
Can you legally run mogas (non-100LL) in the PPonk?

I bet it needs a different prop. $$$$$
Click to expand...

I do not believe Steve added that to the STCs, or ICAs for the mod.
 
I hope you like red. :D I went with Carlus last year. They're pretty much the go to shop in these parts. 40 hrs later compressions essentially 80/80. Didn't even know that was possible.:dunno:
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    362.3 KB · Views: 110
Is he breaking the case open or just installing cylinders?
 
Velocity173 said:
I hope you like red. :D I went with Carlus last year. They're pretty much the go to shop in these parts. 40 hrs later compressions essentially 80/80. Didn't even know that was possible.:dunno:
Click to expand...

I believe Seth does all his cylinder work. Seth is a friend. Seth knows his sh*t! Seth reworks brand new cylinders because the quality isn't up to his standards. Seth is more anal retentive than even me. That's a good trait for your cylinder man.
 
Re: Overhaul, phase I---the teardown

So, I drove to Georgia with my engine on Monday and helped with the tear down on Tuesday.

Five words:

Rust, rust, rust, rust, rust.

I was amazed...so much so that I might not have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself. Hell, I could barely believe it even though I saw it myself. I thought I was doing everything right:

1. Fly often, at least every other week...more often weekly.
2. Use CamGuard (since 2006 when I first became aware of it. Three years and exactly 400 hrs after OH).
3. Always hangared, about 30% of it's life in a heated hangar.
4. Always tried to make sure the oil got up to operating temps...but this one may have been the culprit because it was quite difficult to reach and maintain 180*F on this engine on all but the hottest days.
5. Engine had 1,350 hours on it over exactly 12 years.

Anyway...

The cam is toast, it's pretty badly pitted.
The cam followers are toast...they too are pitted.
The crank we're not sure about. It has some extremely light scoring and has already been ground to .010...the limit for this crank.
The oil pump housing is toast, it has one pretty deep score/gouge in it.

The cylinders were in wonderful condition...completely backasswards for a Continental.

Bottom Line:

It was definitely time for an overhaul. I'm not wasting my money.

Some misc shots (I apologize for the crappy quality, my primo droid phone was in my back pocket and I had oily hands. So a spectator was kind enough to take shots for us...to bad it was an IPhone with an imitation camera...)

Some surprise metal that we found in the bottom of the pan. Likely been floating around for over 1000 hours since #5 was reworked for a broken oil scraper ring:

attachment.php


Some shots of the pitting/rust...:

attachment.php


.
attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • IMG_4953.jpg
    IMG_4953.jpg
    87.6 KB · Views: 291
  • IMG_4955.jpg
    IMG_4955.jpg
    86 KB · Views: 277
  • IMG_4959.jpg
    IMG_4959.jpg
    72.3 KB · Views: 277
Last edited:
Tim,

Unfortunately pics didn't show.

John
 
Water is a natural by-product of combustion. I'm guessing the outgassing from the crankcase was inhibited somehow. I agree that you need to get the oil up above 212F regularly to boil that water out. My oil runs at 230 and I like it just like that.
 
Thanks for posting the update. Please continue with more updates as available. I'm finding this educational.
 
I must say...

...I lost A LOT of faith in CamGuard. Seems the only thing they guarded in my case is their back pocket. Can't imagine it could've looked much worse had I not used it.

950hrs/35(ave) x $25 = $700 that would have paid for the new cam that I'm buying since the old one wasn't guarded.
 
Norman said:
What oil have you been using, Tim?
Click to expand...

Just recently switched to Phillips x/c 20/50. But for the first 1000+ hours I ran straight weight Aeroshell. 100 for 8 months...80 for four months (give or take).
 
Re: Time for Overhaul, phase I

What was the oil change interval protocol? My engine doesn't get over 170 so I change every 90 days.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top