Orlando, which one of you Cirrus drivers did this???

[Ted]

Well, that's interesting, to compare cars and bikes. I like good 4-cyl engines in cars, but don't like them in bikes. I like the 2.0 Eco in the Fusion, Ford has a really nice engine here. Quiet and smooth, but what you do hear sounds sophisticated and nice, and it has plenty of power. That Fusion is far faster than it need to be. And it goes without saying that the 1.6 Turbo in our Civic Si is really nice, Honda knows how to produce good 4-cyl engines as well as nice good shifting manual gear boxes.

But bikes, nope. Too smooth, too refined, too peaky, just not my cuppa Joe. I'm a big fan of twins for bikes, love the feel, love the vibes, love the power delivery. That said, way back I owned a GL1500 that I had great fun with, so there's no doubt another flat-6 bike in my future. I'm thinking a Goldwing in retirement for when the wife wants to ride with, and keep the BMW R1200GS for solo riding.

I really rarely like 4-cylinders in anything. In the tractors they're fine but that's all about utility not about visceral qualities. The TR3 is the only 4-cylinder car I've ever driven that I liked. And while I liked the 4-cylinder bikes when I had them, once I started riding bikes with other configurations, I realized how much the 4-cylinders lacked.

 

[tspear]

I had fun in a SR20 at KPSM. They had a visiting group of C-17s. Not sure why, but they had them parked with the wings over the taxiway.
So there were AF Airmen outside directing me to taxi under the wings. Those planes are fricking huge.
A PC12 landed after me. He was forced to back taxi down the runway most of the way before exiting the runway.

Tim

 

[wrbix]

That is a fair point. The best 4-cylinder I've ever driven was in a TR3 with twin DCOEs on it. And it was very good.

But still, I'm building the Cobra. If I built something like a Caterham, it would probably be a C-type or D-type replica with a Jag XK engine and triple DCOEs.

I considered other options before building my Seven....one of the considerations was that I thought the Caterham not a replica but the continuation/evolution of Chapman’s design since Caterham purchased the manufacturing rights directly from Lotus.

 

[N1120A]

Gotta believe ATC tracked that Cirrus and got their tail number. Would love to be a fly on the wall if/when FAA comes calling to hear how that plays out.

They'd have to have a tail number, since it is Class D. Also, SFB would be in, or nearly in, the Mode C veil for MCO, so I'd assume the plane had ADS-B.

If it was San Diego instead of Orlando I'd blame @Tantalum

LOL - good thing he doesn't have the Cirrus anymore, cause I'm sure he would

 

[Zeldman]

That'll teach those A320 drivers to park in the way, I tell you whut....

 

[Daleandee]

Well, that's interesting, to compare cars and bikes.

It is ... so, if I may, lets add airplanes to it!

I'm a big fan of twins for bikes, love the feel, love the vibes, love the power delivery. That said, way back I owned a GL1500 that I had great fun with, so there's no doubt another flat-6 bike in my future.

I have a metric cruiser that is a V-twin. The airplane is a flat six and I really like the sound of it:

Dale

 

[smv]

I hate to say it, but the real crime here was videoing the incident in portrait rather than landscape mode on the phone.

 

[smv]

If aircraft were motorcycles, I'm thinking Cirrus owners would be equivalent to BMW riders. Cessnas and Pipers probably Honda and Yamaha.

A lot of people have what they believe to be an accurate assessment of BMW riders. Truth is, if you do not ride a BMW you cannot possibly know because you cannot keep up.

(Yah, I realize the irony of the statement above... )

 

[JonH]

This is awesome. Where can I get a Cirrus?

 

[PaulS]

A lot of people have what they believe to be an accurate assessment of BMW riders. Truth is, if you do not ride a BMW you cannot possibly know because you cannot keep up.

(Yah, I realize the irony of the statement above... )

Lol, actually that fits perfectly with Cirrus.

 

[denverpilot]

BMW... Cirrus... neither has turn signals...

 

[flyingcheesehead]

They'd have to have a tail number, since it is Class D.

You're assuming they actually called in. People break rules and screw up all the time. Even at towered airports.

 

[smv]

BMW... Cirrus... neither has turn signals...

Mine have been converted to auxiliary fuel tanks.

 

[unsafervguy]

That'll teach those A320 drivers to park in the way, I tell you whut....

hey, that's what the FMS computer said to do!

 

[Domenick]

As regards the OP. Got a day and time this occurred? With day and time the LiveATC archives may have the Cirrus communicating with the tower or clearance delivery.
https://www.liveatc.net/search/?icao=ksfb

 

[PaulS]

As regards the OP. Got a day and time this occurred? With day and time the LiveATC archives may have the Cirrus communicating with the tower or clearance delivery.
https://www.liveatc.net/search/?icao=ksfb

No idea as to the date.

 

[PaulS]

Just checked the youtube comments, this seems the most plausible explanation there. No one is giving the date though. Here is the comment I thought sounded reasonable, but we have no way of knowing if this is correct.

"From what I understand this is a product of impatience. Cirrus taxi’d under the wing without clearance (can’t imagine a time where you would ever get to taxi under the wing unless your hair was on fire), and if it weren’t for the ground crew filming the tower wouldn’t have caught it. Pilot of the Cirrus was let go for this stunt. Only positive thing about this is the training value for new pilots about bad attitudes and what not to do. God forbid he would’ve swung too wide or too narrow and clipped that engine and caused a spark or fire. Who knows what would’ve happened then. "
Show less

 

[NordicDave]

Amazing how ground control noticed this and also brought to their attention without really really giving a darn.

 

[danhagan]

OK guys, total shocker here ... most of the Cirrii that land at my field call straight in finals 10 miles out and blow up the pattern (we always have at least 3 students on weekends). He probably expected the "STRAIGHT OUT" as he is used to the "STRAIGHT IN" ... which includes going under commercial wings

 

[PaulS]

OK guys, total shocker here ... most of the Cirrii that land at my field call straight in finals 10 miles out and blow up the pattern (we always have at least 3 students on weekends). He probably expected the "STRAIGHT OUT" as he is used to the "STRAIGHT IN" ... which includes going under commercial wings

Yeah that's dumb, just like saying that Cirrus are the only ones who call 10 mile finals, not true. But I do that, did it when I was flying 172s and skippers too. Someone answers, I'll figure out if I can get in without messing them up, if I can't I'll circle around and do a 45 entry, or cross field. I do think that 3 or 4 planes doing patterns at a place where other airplanes are coming in should accommodate other traffic trying to come in or take off, or better yet, find a less busy airport, seems like the decent thing to do, but that's just me.

 

[Domenick]

I've occasionally called straight-ins, but ALWAYs with the stated condition, "traffic permitting". Half the time I end up joining the pattern.

 

[PaulS]

I've occasionally called straight-ins, but ALWAYs with the stated condition, "traffic permitting". Half the time I end up joining the pattern.

I don't say traffic permitting, but occasionally I'll get a "where exactly are you?" query in a concerned voice. I'll report my position again, I don't call at 10 miles, but I'll usually call by 5 or 6, then ask where the other ac is if they didn't say. If it doesn't look like it will work or they still sound concerned, I'll break it off for a normal entry. This doesn't happen too often, and if I hear the pattern is busy, I'll circle around and do a normal entry.

 

[donjohnston]

It just occurred to me that distance isn't nearly important when approaching an airport that has other planes in the pattern.

If I call 6 miles out and the people in the pattern don't know that I'm coming in at nearly twice the speed of your typical 172 at that phase then what good is it? Maybe we should be announcing time instead of distance when approaching?

 

[PaulS]

It just occurred to me that distance isn't nearly important when approaching an airport that has other planes in the pattern.

If I call 6 miles out and the people in the pattern don't know that I'm coming in at nearly twice the speed of your typical 172 at that phase then what good is it? Maybe we should be announcing time instead of distance when approaching?

Absolutely, I think both are actually important. I got tricked by a jet last summer that reported 10 miles out setting up for a downwind to the runway after I had just taken off from and had announced that I was a downwind departure. I figured I had plenty of time to get out of there and I figured wrong. Fortunately the jet guys were , we were both talking, I figured out the issue and got out of their way. I estimated they were going about 200 knots after the fact, lesson learned. When I call 6 miles out in a Cirrus I'm about 4 minutes from touch down, maybe a little less if I'm really cooking.

 

[Zeldman]

Maybe we should be announcing time instead of distance when approaching?

Which is something I do, plus distance, when I know there is other traffic in the area.

 

[smv]

It just occurred to me that distance isn't nearly important when approaching an airport that has other planes in the pattern.

If I call 6 miles out and the people in the pattern don't know that I'm coming in at nearly twice the speed of your typical 172 at that phase then what good is it? Maybe we should be announcing time instead of distance when approaching?

Because much more important than knowing how long it will take you to get there is knowing exactly where you are at that moment. "N1234 is six minutes to the north" means absolutely nothing to someone who is nine miles north in a one-fitty (also likely about six minutes north)...

 

[smv]

I will already be monitoring before 20 miles out. If the pattern is busy, I will report 15, 10, & 5 miles out as well as entering the 45 for downwind (and all the rest of the usual calls). If I do not hear anyone else, then I will skip the 15 mile call but still make the 10, 5, and others.

 

[Kenny Phillips]

I just announce, and end with "caution wake turbulence", and have plenty of room in the pattern.

 

[Domenick]

Using FlightAware and searching for Allegiant 269, I find a cancelled flight on 30-Mar and a completed flight on 27-Mar departing the gate a 8:17 PM (12:17AM 28-Mar Zulu).

The Cirrus incident is on the 28-Mar 0000-0030Z Ground Control archive at 20:45 into the recording which makes the date and time 28-Mar 0020:45Z.
Will be listening to the Towers over the same time frame shortly.

 

[PaulS]

Using FlightAware and searching for Allegiant 269, I find a cancelled flight on 30-Mar and a completed flight on 27-Mar departing the gate a 8:17 PM (12:17AM 28-Mar Zulu).

The Cirrus incident is on the 28-Mar 0000-0030Z Ground Control archive at 20:45 into the recording which makes the date and time 28-Mar 0020:45Z.
Will be listening to the Towers over the same time frame shortly.

Good detective work Domenick, post links if you are able.

 

[zaitcev]

Maybe he was just trying to be like Vin Diesel and go underneath?

Detochikin and Inspector did it in 1966.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Yeah that's dumb, just like saying that Cirrus are the only ones who call 10 mile finals, not true. But I do that, did it when I was flying 172s and skippers too. Someone answers, I'll figure out if I can get in without messing them up, if I can't I'll circle around and do a 45 entry, or cross field. I do think that 3 or 4 planes doing patterns at a place where other airplanes are coming in should accommodate other traffic trying to come in or take off, or better yet, find a less busy airport, seems like the decent thing to do, but that's just me.

I think he was joking.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

It just occurred to me that distance isn't nearly important when approaching an airport that has other planes in the pattern.

If I call 6 miles out and the people in the pattern don't know that I'm coming in at nearly twice the speed of your typical 172 at that phase then what good is it? Maybe we should be announcing time instead of distance when approaching?

How about both if you’re in something special. No need in a standard GA bugsmasher.

 

[PaulS]

I think he was joking.

Me too, .

 

[donjohnston]

Because much more important than knowing how long it will take you to get there is knowing exactly where you are at that moment. "N1234 is six minutes to the north" means absolutely nothing to someone who is nine miles north in a one-fitty (also likely about six minutes north)...

I would disagree.

If you announce that you're nine miles to the north inbound and I announce that I'm 6 miles south inbound are we arriving at the same time? Are you going to be there before me? After me?

However if you're 6 minutes to the north inbound and I announce that I'm 6 minutes to the south inbound I think it's very clear that I'm going to be arriving at the same time as you. Which would be nice to know.

 

[smv]

I would disagree.

If you announce that you're nine miles to the north inbound and I announce that I'm 6 miles south inbound are we arriving at the same time? Are you going to be there before me? After me?

However if you're 6 minutes to the north inbound and I announce that I'm 6 minutes to the south inbound I think it's very clear that I'm going to be arriving at the same time as you. Which would be nice to know.

Please explain how telling everyone how long it will take you to get to an airport tells anyone where you are located. It is called a Common AREA Traffic Frequency because it is for more than just those landing at a specific airport.

 

[flyingron]

Amazing how ground control noticed this and also brought to their attention without really really giving a darn.

I can bet there were some "conversation" between the tower folk bout the Cirrus moron. I've been in the IAD tower (when Margy was a student pilot and along for the visit) when some small fry pilot did another stupid thing which had local raging on about student pilots.

 

[smv]

Please explain how telling everyone how long it will take you to get to an airport tells anyone where you are located. It is called a Common AREA Traffic Frequency because it is for more than just those landing at a specific airport.

Oops... Where the heck was my brain? Of course it stands for Common Traffic ADVISORY Frequency...

 

[iflyvfr]

Please explain how telling everyone how long it will take you to get to an airport tells anyone where you are located. It is called a Common AREA Traffic Frequency because it is for more than just those landing at a specific airport.

Are you referring to CTAF? Ah, I see you caught it!

 

[smv]

Here's what the AIM has to say about when to report.

Recommended Traffic Advisory Practices

1.Pilots of inbound traffic should monitor and communicate as appropriate on the designated CTAF from 10 miles to landing. Pilots of departing aircraft should monitor/communicate on the appropriate frequency from start-up, during taxi, and until 10 miles from the airport unless the CFRs or local procedures require otherwise.

2.Pilots of aircraft conducting other than arriving or departing operations at altitudes normally used by arriving and departing aircraft should monitor/communicate on the appropriate frequency while within 10 miles of the airport unless required to do otherwise by the CFRs or local procedures. Such operations include parachute jumping/dropping, en route, practicing maneuvers, etc.