Online "ground schools"..

fiveoboy01

fiveoboy01

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Dirty B
Due to work and scheduling issues, it was impractical for me to do a "real" ground school, so I paid the $199 for Sporty's "ground school" course.

I feel like there are things missing from it.

For example - no talk about using a plotter, how to account/compensate for wind drift when calculating ground track, zero instruction on how to use an E6B, no instructions on how to read a sectional, etc etc....

Before I get mad at Sporty's I want to ask if these things should be in there. An atypical Saturday that I happened to have off of work and was sitting in the classroom waiting for my instructor to come in for a lesson, the other instructor is doing ground and all the students have their E6Bs out and they're using them for various calculations.

I just don't want to be missing things so when it comes time to plan a flight, I have no clue what to do. Should the online course be more complete or am I expecting too much?? Thanks.
 
I would think that stuff should be part of even the most basic ground school. If sportys thing doesn't have it, i think it is lacking.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
......For example - no talk about using a plotter, how to account/compensate for wind drift when calculating ground track, zero instruction on how to use an E6B, no instructions on how to read a sectional, etc etc....

.
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Hard to believe.... It must be addressed in another chapter you have not read yet..:dunno:
 
That is what my dad said as well. He got his certificate about 10 years ago. So when he said something was wrong, it made me raise my eyebrow.

It might be a waste of money but I think I am going to see if I can somehow do a real one, one way or another. Lack of training/information needed is not an option for me. Some of it will be repetitive, but that's ok.
 
N801BH said:
Hard to believe.... It must be addressed in another chapter you have not read yet..:dunno:
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It's a video course. I've watched every single video and the course even states that. There is a study guide and test prep, but the things I mentioned, I don't see them.

As a matter of caution, I am going to email Sporty's and see if I am missing them, if they are buried in the course somewhere. I'm definitely not here to bash.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
It's a video course. I've watched every single video and the course even states that. There is a study guide and test prep, but the things I mentioned, I don't see them.

As a matter of caution, I am going to email Sporty's and see if I am missing them, if they are buried in the course somewhere. I'm definitely not here to bash.
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report back on what Sporty's says...
 
Don't know about the Sporty's...but I was in the same boat and used the Gleim Online Ground School and had the same frustrations as you. They are definitely a "teach to the test" system. Youtube and Google became my best study buddies. I spent many hours "learning" about the things that were not clear with just the online system or that I didn't understand at the time such as the E6b or wind correction. The online systems seem to require a lot of "independent" study to get a full comprehension of the principals. They seem to just blurt out facts and figures without any context.

The plus side is that I was able to learn at my own pace and spend as much time as I needed on areas that I needed more education on. For me it was the way to go but if I only had the materials provided in the system I would have fell flat on my face!
 
Thank you. I bought the same course and thought it was horrible! I called them and got a refund. I am now studying with Gleim and ASA books. I look up things on the internet when I have questions. Youtube has decent videos on just about all subjects. I also bought Rod Machado book (MP3) $99. Not all worth all the hype either. its not even him narrating....I also recently bought mzeroA "the secret to perfect landings". I was expecting a secret to be revealed, nope $34 dollars....got a refund. Everyone just trying to get there piece of your wallet. Again went to old school text books....and google searches.
 
I know that last post sounded cranky.....its actually my first one here. I have read this forum a long time, but signed up just to reply to this....so yeah, Im cranky today.
 
kawizx62003 said:
went to old school text books....and google searches.
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Much of the well known's are "just teaching the test", which, sadly, is what much of the marketplace is asking for.

But I agree that more in depth is valuable, which is why there will be a place for the live classroom sessions.

Too much of the "study for the test" only information get's lost in the accumulated clutter after the test is done with. But the items that I sat in a classroom for, and participated in discussions with other students over, are the things that stick with me better.

The interwebz does provide much of what any student needs via Google or YouTube. Combine this with a good textbook like the FAA handbooks (free), the Gleim materials, or Bob Garner's Complete Pilot series (recommended), and any PPL student should come with a good working knowledge.

But for those student pilots who are reading this, if you can find a good classroom based ground school, really consider participating. Your depth of understanding of the various topics will be much better.
 
kawizx62003 said:
Thank you. I bought the same course and thought it was horrible! I called them and got a refund. I am now studying with Gleim and ASA books. I look up things on the internet when I have questions. Youtube has decent videos on just about all subjects. I also bought Rod Machado book (MP3) $99. Not all worth all the hype either. its not even him narrating....I also recently bought mzeroA "the secret to perfect landings". I was expecting a secret to be revealed, nope $34 dollars....got a refund. Everyone just trying to get there piece of your wallet. Again went to old school text books....and google searches.
Click to expand...

The one thing from Gleim that I DID like was the audio review (to be purchased separately of course). Having that playing in the car or while waiting around on the Iphone was a key learning tool for me.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
Due to work and scheduling issues, it was impractical for me to do a "real" ground school, so I paid the $199 for Sporty's "ground school" course.

I feel like there are things missing from it.

For example - no talk about using a plotter, how to account/compensate for wind drift when calculating ground track, zero instruction on how to use an E6B, no instructions on how to read a sectional, etc etc....

Before I get mad at Sporty's I want to ask if these things should be in there. An atypical Saturday that I happened to have off of work and was sitting in the classroom waiting for my instructor to come in for a lesson, the other instructor is doing ground and all the students have their E6Bs out and they're using them for various calculations.

I just don't want to be missing things so when it comes time to plan a flight, I have no clue what to do. Should the online course be more complete or am I expecting too much?? Thanks.
Click to expand...

I'm a student pilot too. And, like you, I bought the Sporty's package as it was suggested by my school if I didn't attend an in-person ground school program. I passed my written a few months back and am in the cross country phase of my program.

In my opinion, the DVD version of Sporty's "Complete Private Pilot Course" is not sufficient on its own to get you from A to Z, but it probably provides a comfortable base if you like video-based learning (I don't as it takes too long).

You'll be doing pretty good if you HEAVILY supplement the DVDs with the free FAA publications including the Airplane Flying Handbook (AFH) and the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge (PHAK). There are also some nice souls who have posted some terrific how to use E-6B videos on YouTube.

My Sporty's DVDs seem to have some relevant chapters. I transferred the content to my iPad and may have lost track of the original location, but from my iPad, it looks like Disk 5 has these:

Chapter 3 - Publications and Charts
Chapter 4 - Where is it really - Airspace
Chapter 5 - Flight Planning and Co.. (can't read the rest of the title, but it goes over wind drift, using a plotter, and using an E6B, but overly focuses on their electronic one)

One think I did like about the Sporty's package was that it gave me online access to their online practice tests and it kept a record of how I was doing over time.

Have fun!
 
my instructor showed me how to do those things, but I did refer to youtube and google to refresh my memory or to answer little questions.
 
I still find it hard the believe that on Private Pilot Ground School DVD's that the author cannot add 10 minutes of a "E6B ' whizwheels for dummies"... section.... Geez....
 
N801BH said:
I still find it hard the believe that on Private Pilot Ground School DVD's that the author cannot add 10 minutes of a "E6B ' whizwheels for dummies"... section.... Geez....
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Maybe the folks who made those programs were my age and still assume everyone knows how to use a slide rule. :dunno:
 
I used the King Schools stuff. I really enjoyed it and had no problems with my written test.
 
Agreed gleim also lacks those skill teaching using e6b I had a hell of a time learning alot I stuff.. Online really helps and alot of guys on here helped as well..
 
I used the Jeppeson online course for my training from late last year until March when I got my PPL. I thought it was very very intensive in some ways and lacking in others. I bought the hard back book to accompany it and will keep it as a reference because it's very good. I felt the hands on real life use of the flying and flight planning skills were lacking. The weather, aerodynamics, and such were very intensive compared to what is needed to pass the test. I got a 95 on my written so I was happy.
 
The two FAA publications mentioned, the Airplane Flying Handbook and the Pilot's Book of Aeronautical Knowledge.. Both of these books teach the same if not more than the online course I purchased. I do think the Sporty's course will help me as it has a very large test prep section... but everything learned elsewhere on the course could easily be gained from reading the FAA publications.

I'm disappointed however I'm not angry. I certainly did learn a lot but if I could recommend it to someone just starting - buy the FAA books and do what it takes to get into a real teacher to student ground school. For me it just wasn't possible.

And FWIW I sent an email to Sporty's customer service last night basically asking the questions I asked in the original post. I have not received a reply as of yet. I'm not screaming for a refund at all, but I think the money's better spent on other means of ground training.
 
My whiz-wheel came with an instruction book. Don't they all have one in the box?

N801BH said:
I still find it hard the believe that on Private Pilot Ground School DVD's that the author cannot add 10 minutes of a "E6B ' whizwheels for dummies"... section.... Geez....
Click to expand...
 
cmathis said:
I used the King Schools stuff. I really enjoyed it and had no problems with my written test.
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This. They had a very thorough online training program with a mix of slides, video, quizzes, etc. I thought it was well work the money.
 
I bought Sporty's and promptly returned it. I found it to be disorganized and difficult to use. It's incoherent...lots of video snippets that don't relate to each other, some out of place, and all filmed with different people, some many many years old. I don't have another solution for you...just warning that I too needed something online and found Sporty's to be seriously lacking.
 
I did the King courses for both private and instrument. They also strictly 'teach to the test' and wont give you much of the planning skills required to be a safe pilot. For the private, I did a ground-school class with a local ground instructor that I found quite useful. For the instruments, whatever wasn't covered in the test prep I somehow absorbed during the pre and post sessions with my CFII.

King basically took the 1980s footage from their VHS tape sets and integrated it with the questions in a DVD format. They must have made a pile of money on recycling this stuff over and over.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
Due to work and scheduling issues, it was impractical for me to do a "real" ground school, so I paid the $199 for Sporty's "ground school" course.

I feel like there are things missing from it.

...

Should the online course be more complete or am I expecting too much??
Click to expand...
I'm sitting here reading your post during a break from making slide tutorials for my instrument online IFR course. I'm doing that course because I'm not happy with DVD style multimedia presentations, online or offline. I especially didn't like Sporty's.

That said, I feel their pain and yours too. It isn't easy condensing just the right amount of knowledge for a visual format. On the one hand, I risk being too brief and on the other too boring. In my IFR case, I assume the viewer already knows many of the terms and concepts by virtue of just having had their eyes and ears open to date and that they have the discipline to look things up as they go when they don't. That leaves me the task of nailing the basic framework together visually and the viewer the task of filling in their unique gaps by referencing the FAA's handbooks and AIM the course is built upon.

Still, for a private course, I'd think an E6B tutorial is a must. Go figure.

dtuuri
 
ASA's online ground school for the private follows the format of my COMPLETE PRIVATE PILOT exactly; it covers the areas discussed in this thread. Costs $149 (www.asa2fly.com)

Bob Gardner
 
I've seen snippets of several "online courses" and I think many should be renamed "somewhat helpful movies." One major exception is the online ground school for Sport Pilot / Gyroplane offered by the Popular Rotorcraft Association. It starts with a resource bundle of self-study material and homework, but is backed up with a live, two-hour, group webmeeting session every week led by a CFI, and covers everything in detail, including time for individual questions. $99 bucks for PRA members. I'm not aware of anything like this offered for other cats/classes.

I took a traditional in-person ground school course at a Part 141 school for Private / Airplane, and one of the greatest benefits for me was the interaction with other students in the room, and the value in having them ask questions I wouldn't have thought of till I got home. Any serious online substitute needs to replicate that benefit somehow to compete, IMHO.

I believe the transition of teaching from in-person to the internet is still working through the benefit/price balance, especially among those who seek to do it as a commercial venture. And not just in aviation.
 
No ground school here. Just bought a textbook, read, and asked questions of my CFI. Might have watched a couple videos, but they really didn't tell me anything I didn't already know.
 
cmathis said:
I used the King Schools stuff. I really enjoyed it and had no problems with my written test.
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guardrail said:
This. They had a very thorough online training program with a mix of slides, video, quizzes, etc. I thought it was well work the money.
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weilke said:
I did the King courses for both private and instrument. They also strictly 'teach to the test' and wont give you much of the planning skills required to be a safe pilot. For the private, I did a ground-school class with a local ground instructor that I found quite useful. For the instruments, whatever wasn't covered in the test prep I somehow absorbed during the pre and post sessions with my CFII.

King basically took the 1980s footage from their VHS tape sets and integrated it with the questions in a DVD format. They must have made a pile of money on recycling this stuff over and over.
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I used the King DVD course for my private written (back in 2000) and their on-line course for my IR written (passed in 2011). As noted above, their course is aimed at getting you to pass the written. Nothing else. And, for me, they did that well (100% on the private, 97% on the IR).

Now, for the rest of what you really need to know, multiple sources worked for me. For the Private I had books from the FAA, Jeppesen (highly recommended by me) and others. Get a copy of "Stick and Rudder" and you won't be disappointed. The E-6B was easy for me, but I not only know what a slide rule is, I used one for a number of years and still have it. Pickett N4-ES double log. :D

For the IR, much the same. Multiple source, each with its strengths and weaknesses. Machado's Instrument Pilot Survival Guide had the best aid for figuring out hold entries I've seen anywhere. I'll let you buy your own copy to see what I'm talking about, Rod deserves the income from the book.

Different folks have different learning styles. You'll find what works best for you. Best of luck and have fun.
 
VWGhiaBob said:
I bought Sporty's and promptly returned it. I found it to be disorganized and difficult to use. It's incoherent...lots of video snippets that don't relate to each other, some out of place, and all filmed with different people, some many many years old. I don't have another solution for you...just warning that I too needed something online and found Sporty's to be seriously lacking.
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Agree 110%. The short video clips were annoying too!
 
I used King for PP and using them for IR. As corny as they are, I can't really see anyone do a better job of explaining it (maybe more modern haircuts and video clips? :lol:). They cover the E6B a lot (wind correction, fuel, flight times, DA etc...), they cover sectionals and the ledgends etc...

They are teaching you how to pass the written test, but a lot of that also applies to real world flying. I think it's what you're looking for. Look them up on YouTube for some short clips and you'll get the idea of how the training goes.
 
Thanks for all of your suggestions.

Even if it may cost me more, I think I might try to find a real school if I can find one with hours that agree with my schedule.

It's funny that someone mentioned test prep because when I spoke with my instructor yesterday about this subject, he said the same thing. Written test prep. Wish I'd known better and/or done more research prior to purchasing.

FWIW, I never did receive a reply from Sporty's. Which is too bad because I have purchased several things through them, and liked their service in that regard. But if they are going to ignore my inquiry, I'll be shopping elsewhere.
 
I'm a student pilot, and used the Sportys on line for the same reason you did, i.e. time and availability.

I also thought while reviewing the videos that they where just aimed at "getting me though the written", I also had the Gleim books and on line test prep as this is what my flight school recommends and teaches to.

How ever I must admit that as I got further into my training, and was getting ready for my written test, I re-watched the videos and found them much more informative. I put it down to the fact that now I actually knew what they where talking about, more of it made sense and I got more out of it.
But I agree with some of the other posts that you could not do it with just the video's
 
I tried Sportys online course but I ended with Kings School for the same reason OP posted. Regardless how silly or corny John and Martha King are, their course was pretty comprehensive and I got 98% on my written: I missed 1 question and it was my own fault. The King course did also teach me how to use the plotter and E6B.
 
I sent a second email today, and did recieve a response(this time I stated I wanted my money back, which must have helped.. LOL)... The representative did take each item that I cited and gave me a volume and chapter where that item is addressed in their training. So later tonight I will go through and see. Perhaps I missed some of the items. Either way I know I will be able to find what I need online and/or in other publications. I'll learn it one way or another :)
 
spdracer888 said:
I tried Sportys online course but I ended with Kings School for the same reason OP posted. Regardless how silly or corny John and Martha King are, their course was pretty comprehensive and I got 98% on my written: I missed 1 question and it was my own fault. The King course did also teach me how to use the plotter and E6B.
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I had a 20month old when I did the King Course. In the evenings, he would watch the tapes with me listening to the jokes on one earpiece. He loved Martha :D .
 
I used King, and got a 92 on the test. HOWEVER, I also did a weekend ground school, and did extra work with my instructor using the E6B and doing plotter stuff. I like the online ground schools ( have Gleim, King and Sportys for my instrument studying). I also think that the Complete Pilot books are good. But, nothing beats speaking to an instructor for extra help on some matters. Just my 2 cents.
 
weilke said:
I had a 20month old when I did the King Course. In the evenings, he would watch the tapes with me listening to the jokes on one earpiece. He loved Martha :D .
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:lol::lol::lol: Martha is the best sleep aid :)
 
I recently saw ads in aopa wesite for a live online ground school. They offer weekend seminars delivered by live instructors. The cost is reasonable compared to other seminars providers.

You may find them more helpful then most self study courses.
 
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