One big class action lawsuit coming up:

Cooter said:
I forgot who it was who didn't want a loaded gun in the home. But here is a good reason for having one ready to go.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-16-old-boy-killed-185339413.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=2_05
Click to expand...

Can you clarify the point you're trying to make with this example? The boy broke into a house, took them hostage, raped the women, and then stole their gun. So they did have a gun in the home, but it didn't help them.

Cooter said:
I forgot who it was who didn't want a loaded gun in the home. But here is a good reason for having one ready to go.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-16-old-boy-killed-185339413.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=2_05
I've personally known of several cases that were similar. The people weren't ready and paid for it. In one instance a girl was raped across the hall from me. She had a husky to protect her but it was in its cage. It happened so fast, she didn't get a chance to open the cage.
Click to expand...

Again, could you clarify the point please? Are you advocating based on these examples that people need to have a gun on their person at all time in their homes? Because if it was anywhere else then if she couldn't move fast enough to reach the cage, chances are she couldn't go grab her gun either.

'Gun on your person at all times' would have helped in these instances of course, but geez, that's not exactly my idea of freedom to have to carry a gun at all time into the bathroom/shower/grabbing a drink etc. But curious - is this how you live? (Won't judge you for that - it's just interesting).
 
Cooter said:
I forgot who it was who didn't want a loaded gun in the home. But here is a good reason for having one ready to go.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-16-old-boy-killed-185339413.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=2_05
I've personally known of several cases that were similar. The people weren't ready and paid for it. In one instance a girl was raped across the hall from me. She had a husky to protect her but it was in its cage. It happened so fast, she didn't get a chance to open the cage.
Click to expand...

My wife prosecutes cases like that rape all the time. (Among the child and other victim crimes.) She and her peers work keep the rest of us out of jail for murder. (Might just be me, but that stuff makes my blood boil.) Unfortunately, she also prosecutes a lot of guys shooting at and sometimes killing their spouse, girlfriend, etc. The debate is how to keep guns from the "bad guys". The only issue I have with the "give good guys the guns" is two fold:
1) who determines the good guys?
2) since all of these are ambush shootings - how is this going to guarantee a positive result?

On #2 - remember, ex Army here. An ambush means you don't know what is happening until it is too late and you already have casualties. The only thing you can do is limit what happen next - and that can require a lot of luck.

I'm all for having a gun, but there is a reality check to be made on how and when it might be effective. Something like the debate on chutes versus twins: it all depends upon what you expect to happen. But often the real answer is something more basic.
 
deonb said:
Can you clarify the point you're trying to make with this example? The boy broke into a house, took them hostage, raped the women, and then stole their gun. So they did have a gun in the home, but it didn't help them.



Again, could you clarify the point please? Are you advocating based on these examples that people need to have a gun on their person at all time in their homes? Because if it was anywhere else then if she couldn't move fast enough to reach the cage, chances are she couldn't go grab her gun either.

'Gun on your person at all times' would have helped in these instances of course, but geez, that's not exactly my idea of freedom to have to carry a gun at all time into the bathroom/shower/grabbing a drink etc. But curious - is this how you live? (Won't judge you for that - it's just interesting).
Click to expand...
My point is that you need to be ready, unless you are ok with playing the odds. Some people don't want a gun and I'm ok with that. But if you have a wife and kids, I think you owe it to them to provide protection and that means considering what the threat might be and learning about how to prepare for it. A gun in itself isn't the answer. A weapon plus preparation is.
I'm licensed but I don't carry a weapon, for several reasons. But, I will say that my home is well protected. Defending myself and defending my family are two different things. They look to me for protection and I provide it as well as I can. I don't just assume the odds won't catch up to me. My family is too precious to take that chance.
 
brian] said:
On #2 - remember, ex Army here. An ambush means you don't know what is happening until it is too late and you already have casualties. The only thing you can do is limit what happen next - and that can require a lot of luck.
Click to expand...
Did you train on how to respond to an ambush? Or did you just accept that casualties were going to happen and not worry about it?
 
brian] said:
I would not assume members of "that party" are anti gun. The "Dems" around here will point their shotgun as quickly as the "Repubs" if you trespass on their land. Could be just this part of the country....
Click to expand...


Are you in a rural area?

I think there's more of a split between urban and rural folks than between Rep and Dem, especially when it comes to guns.
 
Cooter said:
Did you train on how to respond to an ambush? Or did you just accept that casualties were going to happen and not worry about it?
Click to expand...

How to respond. It's been over 25 years, but I quickly realized it took a lot of luck just to "wake up" from what just happened takes a lot of effort...
 
brian] said:
How to respond. It's been over 25 years, but I quickly realized it took a lot of luck just to "wake up" from what just happened takes a lot of effort...
Click to expand...
Right. But ignoring the reality of ambush doesn't make them go away. Training and response improves your odds. Saying that an element of luck is what should be relied upon goes against the whole concept of your Army training. Drill, drill, drill. Why? Because that training reduces the confusion and prepares you to respond correctly. I don't care to argue his to death, but it's a strange argument that you are making. Just because we can't control all the circumstances isn't reason to hope and trust in luck and wish for the best. I'm sure your army training didn't instill that in you.
 
I've known one person, personally, that had an intruder in the house. We used to work together. She came downstairs for something, in the middle of the night, and noticed the front door was either unlocked, unlatched, or not closed completely (I can't remember this detail, but she knew something "wasn't right"). Her daughter normally worked nights, so she thought that maybe her daughter had come home and forgotten to lock the door. She still hadn't turned on any of the interior lights, but she became aware that somebody was in the living room. She yelled for her husband, ran back up the stairs, grabbed her gun, then ran back downstairs. The guy in the living room ran out the front door and her husband ran outside and got a description of the guy and his vehicle that was parked around the corner. The guy was arrested - he worked as a security guard for a local company, lived in their same neighborhood, and turns out had been stalking their daughter. He was inside the house, waiting for her to come home. In court, he was assured, by the mom, that she would blow his brains out if she ever saw him near their house or her daughter - and I know she will do it if she gets the chance.

Not sure how this story fits into any one anti/pro gun narrative, but it's a real-life example of how a home break-in happened when there was a gun in the house.
 
Matthew said:
I've known one person, personally, that had an intruder in the house. We used to work together. She came downstairs for something, in the middle of the night, and noticed the front door was either unlocked, unlatched, or not closed completely (I can't remember this detail, but she knew something "wasn't right"). Her daughter normally worked nights, so she thought that maybe her daughter had come home and forgotten to lock the door. She still hadn't turned on any of the interior lights, but she became aware that somebody was in the living room. She yelled for her husband, ran back up the stairs, grabbed her gun, then ran back downstairs. The guy in the living room ran out the front door and her husband ran outside and got a description of the guy and his vehicle that was parked around the corner. The guy was arrested - he worked as a security guard for a local company, lived in their same neighborhood, and turns out had been stalking their daughter. He was inside the house, waiting for her to come home. In court, he was assured, by the mom, that she would blow his brains out if she ever saw him near their house or her daughter - and I know she will do it if she gets the chance.

Not sure how this story fits into any one anti/pro gun narrative, but it's a real-life example of how a home break-in happened when there was a gun in the house.
Click to expand...
Similar thing happened around here, which is a very low crime area. A high school teacher came home to her rural residence and noticed something wasn't right. She noticed something amiss and went back out to her car and called the police. They came and found a student hiding in her closet with a baseball bat. Scary stuff. I think the point is that bad stuff happens, and preparing yourself isn't paranoia.
 
Cooter said:
Right. But ignoring the reality of ambush doesn't make them go away. Training and response improves your odds. Saying that an element of luck is what should be relied upon goes against the whole concept of your Army training. Drill, drill, drill. Why? Because that training reduces the confusion and prepares you to respond correctly. I don't care to argue his to death, but it's a strange argument that you are making. Just because we can't control all the circumstances isn't reason to hope and trust in luck and wish for the best. I'm sure your army training didn't instill that in you.
Click to expand...

No - I think we are pretty much in agreement on this one - the only distinction I would make is the following:
- Gun + training is what delivers the result everyone is talking about
- Gun + a bunch of junk on top of in in the glove box is what usually happens.

(Popping a few beer cans isn't training for an ambush. Hint: you can be a poor marksman and still be very effective in an ambush.)
 
Cooter said:
Similar thing happened around here, which is a very low crime area. A high school teacher came home to her rural residence and noticed something wasn't right. She noticed something amiss and went back out to her car and called the police. They came and found a student hiding in her closet with a baseball bat. Scary stuff. I think the point is that bad stuff happens, and preparing yourself isn't paranoia.
Click to expand...

Ding Ding Ding!

This is the equivalent of arguing about guns/no guns - or twins versus chutes. Put gas in the airplane and be aware of your surroundings. Doesn't guarantee the result, but does solve most of the issues you actually run into.
 
brian] said:
My wife prosecutes cases like that rape all the time. (Among the child and other victim crimes.) She and her peers work keep the rest of us out of jail for murder. (Might just be me, but that stuff makes my blood boil.) Unfortunately, she also prosecutes a lot of guys shooting at and sometimes killing their spouse, girlfriend, etc. The debate is how to keep guns from the "bad guys". The only issue I have with the "give good guys the guns" is two fold:
1) who determines the good guys?
2) since all of these are ambush shootings - how is this going to guarantee a positive result?

On #2 - remember, ex Army here. An ambush means you don't know what is happening until it is too late and you already have casualties. The only thing you can do is limit what happen next - and that can require a lot of luck.

I'm all for having a gun, but there is a reality check to be made on how and when it might be effective. Something like the debate on chutes versus twins: it all depends upon what you expect to happen. But often the real answer is something more basic.
Click to expand...

Brian,

Even though I've had concealed carry permits for years when Michigan went to 'shall issue' they demanded training and applicants were thoroughly checked out. Even though I'm squeaky clean and had previous permits I was checked for any possible violation right down to boating violations. The 'Dossier' they had on me was about an inch and a half thick. Even the prosecuting attorney commented on the fact they couldn't even dig up anything other than a speeding ticket many years prior.

In response to your second question people react differently to being suddenly ambushed just like they react to other emergencies. Some who have trained respond according to their training while others fall apart and wonder what is/was happening. I have had the good fortune to be coached by some cops on how to respond. You have to keep your mind on what is happening at the moment. Armed or not, if you don't you will be at the mercy of the bad guy. Always expect the unexpected and be prepared to deal with it.

Whether you wish to carry or keep a loaded gun at your bedside for your protection is strictly a personal decision. The outcome of any encounter depends on how you're trained to handle a situation.
 
Norman said:
Brian,

Even though I've had concealed carry permits for years when Michigan went to 'shall issue' they demanded training and applicants were thoroughly checked out. Even though I'm squeaky clean and had previous permits I was checked for any possible violation right down to boating violations. The 'Dossier' they had on me was about an inch and a half thick. Even the prosecuting attorney commented on the fact they couldn't even dig up anything other than a speeding ticket many years prior.

In response to your second question people react differently to being suddenly ambushed just like they react to other emergencies. Some who have trained respond according to their training while others fall apart and wonder what is/was happening. I have had the good fortune to be coached by some cops on how to respond. You have to keep your mind on what is happening at the moment. Armed or not, if you don't you will be at the mercy of the bad guy. Always expect the unexpected and be prepared to deal with it.

Whether you wish to carry or keep a loaded gun at your bedside for your protection is strictly a personal decision. The outcome of any encounter depends on how you're trained to handle a situation.
Click to expand...

I think we agree. I currently do not have a CC - but have been considering it.

The hesitation: I believe (belief here) that I would be assuming a large responsibility if I had to use said weapon. It's a big deal.

But, it sounds like you do take this very serious. More often than not, my inquiries usually result in someone that gives good lip service, but mostly has an iron safety blanket.
 
brian] said:
The hesitation: I believe (belief here) that I would be assuming a large responsibility if I had to use said weapon. It's a big deal.
Click to expand...
I've been carrying in some form or another since I was out of high school, and have yet to ever have to draw or use my weapon. There's a lot of myths floating around out there.
 
brian] said:
I think we agree. I currently do not have a CC - but have been considering it.

The hesitation: I believe (belief here) that I would be assuming a large responsibility if I had to use said weapon. It's a big deal.

But, it sounds like you do take this very serious. More often than not, my inquiries usually result in someone that gives good lip service, but mostly has an iron safety blanket.
Click to expand...

I take the responsibility of carrying a lethal weapon very seriously. Make a mistake and shoot an innocent and you're likely to be facing a judge and jury. OTOH, facing an intruder in the middle of the night and using your means of self defense will be given consideration by the prosecutor. I live alone and have no children so I am relatively safe in assuming someone entering my home in the middle of the night is up to no good.

I do not pay this topic lip service. I want people properly trained and informed about the laws regarding lethal force.
 
FastEddieB said:
If you like podcasts:

Opening Arguments is a good one. The hosts are definitely left-leaning, but generally knowledgeable and thoughtful.

I mention this because they took a “deep dive” into the Second Amendment in two parts:

http://openargs.com/oa21-second-amendment-masterclass-part-1

http://openargs.com/oa26-second-amendment-masterclass-part-2

Agree or disagree, they provide a lot of background to the debate.

edited to add: not sure why my links are not posting properly. Anyway, easy to find via Google.
Click to expand...

This is a VERY good podcast. Yep, leans a bit to the left with some of the comments from the moderator (and the guest). BUT, is a very good description of the reality of where we are at. At least from what I kinda remember from what my wife has said over the years.

Ever see the segment on TV where the Cessna "crashes" on the interstate and later the police clears the traffic so the pilot can take off - with a pic of a mooney? Do you scream at the TV - frustrated!

That's my wife with nearly every one of the gun conversations on TV. "It's my 2A right!" Well, not quite that simple.....
 
brian] said:
This is a VERY good podcast. Yep, leans a bit to the left with some of the comments from the moderator (and the guest).
Click to expand...

One of the hosts recently stated he has never fired a gun.

I’m about to extend an open invitation to give him the opportunity.

I think I could put together a few hour block to cover all the basics of handguns, rifles and ammunition, and to fire a variety of weapons in a safe and controlled environment.

I doubt he’ll bite, but I will at least offer it.
 
FastEddieB said:
One of the hosts recently stated he has never fired a gun. I’m about to extend an open invitation to give him the opportunity. I think I could put together a few hour block to cover all the basics of handguns, rifles and ammunition, and to fire a variety of weapons in a safe and controlled environment.
Click to expand...
So far I've converted 3 of my liberal neighbors to becoming responsible gun owners by doing just that. Invite them to the range or desert, educate them on safety, and then let them have some fun. The smiles on their faces were priceless! ;)
 
In KS you generally need to take a hunting safety course before you can get a license.

Way back in the day, I took that class. Can't remember much about it, but at the end we all went to a local range for hotdogs and a few hours with shotguns.

I remember one girl, maybe 10-12 years old. She got a 20-ga, but even that was too heavy for her to hold up. One of the instructors kneeled next to her, and helped her to prop up the barrel. He told her he'd let go of the barrel as soon as she was ready.

The next things all happened almost simultaneously: She said "PULL", he let go, the target flew, she fired, and the target got powdered. Her smile said it all. It was a good day.
 
brian] said:
The hesitation: I believe (belief here) that I would be assuming a large responsibility if I had to use said weapon. It's a big deal.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is indeed a big deal, but it's not the biggest deal.

Brian, I don't know your situation, but if you have a family as I do, you already have a much greater responsibility to protect them. And that includes a responsibility to defend yourself for their sake.

The gun and CC permit are simply more tools in the toolbox to enable me to carry out my responsibilities.
 
Half Fast said:
Yes, it is indeed a big deal, but it's not the biggest deal.

Brian, I don't know your situation, but if you have a family as I do, you already have a much greater responsibility to protect them. And that includes a responsibility to defend yourself for their sake.

The gun and CC permit are simply more tools in the toolbox to enable me to carry out my responsibilities.
Click to expand...

Long story - but multiple security systems, sensors of all kinds and video. House, and office.

Already have other weapons, but no CC. (And I won't CC without the training, etc.) After sleeping with an M16 for years in the Army, I'm not jumping up and down saying "goodie, goodie it's a gun".
 
brian] said:
Long story - but multiple security systems, sensors of all kinds and video. House, and office.

Already have other weapons, but no CC. (And I won't CC without the training, etc.) After sleeping with an M16 for years in the Army, I'm not jumping up and down saying "goodie, goodie it's a gun".
Click to expand...


All good. CC is a personal decision based on your circumstances and anticipated risk level, of course.

I started carrying when I was racing sports cars. I was driving in regional events, and also acting as crew chief for a buddy who was campaigning nationally. I was often travelling to distant race tracks at odd hours, and stopping in podunk gas stations, restaurants, rest areas, etc. while loaded up with a racecar and many thousands of dollars in tools, equipment, and parts. Plus I usually carried a fair amount of cash on those trips. I felt like a prime target, and it made sense to have protection.

As the world becomes nuttier every day, I'm more and more inclined to carry these days for my family and myself, especially when travelling.
 
Waiting for tawood to chime in on this subject because I know he is a LEO. An explanation of how most LEO's view people with a carry permit. I know my deputy friends don't give a rat's a$$ about my carrying but OTOH I have known most of them for years and they know with whom I stand.
 
Norman said:
Waiting for tawood to chime in on this subject because I know he is a LEO. An explanation of how most LEO's view people with a carry permit. I know my deputy friends don't give a rat's a$$ about my carrying but OTOH I have known most of them for years and they know with whom I stand.
Click to expand...

When I took my CCW training course, someone asked that question of the deputy sheriff who was the instructor. His response was, "I have never needed to arrest a CCW permit holder. You guys aren't the problem; you're part of the solution."

Of course, there are a few carriers who get into trouble, but statistically that's very rare, at least according to Florida data.
 
Norman said:
Waiting for tawood to chime in on this subject because I know he is a LEO. An explanation of how most LEO's view people with a carry permit. I know my deputy friends don't give a rat's a$$ about my carrying but OTOH I have known most of them for years and they know with whom I stand.
Click to expand...

It’s going to depend on the department and the temperament of the individual officer. The vast majority are positive about it.

State Troopers like it because they know in the middle of nowhere if they’re attacked their chances that a citizen comes along who’ll help them, is more likely than their own backup arriving before they’re dead.

(Like the officer in Arizona earlier this year. I always wondered in that case if the guy who saved the Trooper then told the Trooper he didn’t have his permit on him or something because it’s the only citizen helping in an officer involved shooting story I’ve ever seen — where the officer told him to get lost afterward. He wasn’t even there when backup arrived, and had driven off. Then he was introduced to the Press a couple of days later as the “hero”. Something goofy was going on there and the Trooper covered for him and told him to head home and lawyer up. Or realized if the guy left, nobody could prove he didn’t have his permit on him. Or something like that. It also seemed funny he was on the last stretch of Interstate prior to the California with very few if any exits left and crossing that border carrying he would have been illegal. So I wonder if the Trooper told him to drive his happy butt to the next exit, turn around immediately, and go back into AZ and go home for his own legal safety? He didn’t want California to arrest the guy who just saved his life if he went on down the road? So weird. Don’t think we are ever going to know on that one. Official report left out all those details.)
 
Half Fast said:
When I took my CCW training course, someone asked that question of the deputy sheriff who was the instructor. His response was, "I have never needed to arrest a CCW permit holder. You guys aren't the problem; you're part of the solution."

Of course, there are a few carriers who get into trouble, but statistically that's very rare, at least according to Florida data.
Click to expand...
There was one. Moral of that story is don't reach for your permit
 
Half Fast said:
When I took my CCW training course, someone asked that question of the deputy sheriff who was the instructor. His response was, "I have never needed to arrest a CCW permit holder. You guys aren't the problem; you're part of the solution."
Click to expand...
That's more or less what the 2 cops said who were "patrolling" our 2000 man/woman 2A rallies (where everybody had at least one or two loaded guns on them), and were mixing it up with the state's top government officials. I asked both cops if they were "skeerd" being around all these crazy gun-toting maniacs. They said... "are you kidding me, this is the safest place in the entire state of AZ to be right now". I thought that was pretty funny. :cool:
 
Half Fast said:
When I took my CCW training course, someone asked that question of the deputy sheriff who was the instructor. His response was, "I have never needed to arrest a CCW permit holder. You guys aren't the problem; you're part of the solution."

Of course, there are a few carriers who get into trouble, but statistically that's very rare, at least according to Florida data.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, I can not say the same...(I've arrested quite a few CCW permit holders)...I'm all for CCW, but I worked 25 years in a big bar town...lots of drunk CCW guys = lots of problems
 
tawood said:
Unfortunately, I can not say the same...(I've arrested quite a few CCW permit holders)...I'm all for CCW, but I worked 25 years in a big bar town...lots of drunk CCW guys = lots of problems
Click to expand...


Is CCW permitted in bars where you are? Bars are off limits for carry in FL.

Personally, I wish they would go with a blood alcohol limit, rather than prohibiting bars. As the law stands, I can go into a Chili's, sit in the restaurant area with my firearm, have a couple of margaritas, and be perfectly legal. OTOH, if I sit in the bar and drink a glass of water, I'm breaking the law.
 
Half Fast said:
Is CCW permitted in bars where you are? Bars are off limits for carry in FL.

Personally, I wish they would go with a blood alcohol limit, rather than prohibiting bars. As the law stands, I can go into a Chili's, sit in the restaurant area with my firearm, have a couple of margaritas, and be perfectly legal. OTOH, if I sit in the bar and drink a glass of water, I'm breaking the law.
Click to expand...

Texas has a 51% rule that prohibits carry )open or concealed) in any establishment that derives 51% or more of its sales from alcohol. Separately, there is a prohibition on being under the influence as well. There is no legal definition of what constitutes under the influence, so it’s pure discretion.
 
tawood said:
Unfortunately, I can not say the same...(I've arrested quite a few CCW permit holders)...I'm all for CCW, but I worked 25 years in a big bar town...lots of drunk CCW guys = lots of problems
Click to expand...

Maybe it depends on where you are. The LEOs I've talked to in the city mostly like permitted carriers because it means you had background checks and at least some training and are generally not a criminal.

But there was one time out in the podunk mountain town they had a traffic stop where they stopped every car and asked to see your drivers license. I don't know why, looking for drunk drivers maybe? Anyway, in compliance with the state law, and exactly how I was trained in my CCW class, I rolled my window partway down, put my two hands on the top of the steering wheel and said to the officer, "I have a conceal carry permit and I am armed." The guy literally jumped backwards and looked shocked. I might have suddenly turned into a giant spider. You have to realize I am a frumpy old lady driving a frumpy old lady car. He kind of stammered and told me to drive up to the next officer, so I did and repeated the same thing, adding "that guy told me to drive up to you" or something like that. He kind of went "pffft" and waved me on. Didn't even ask to see my ID.

I'm not sure what the deal is there, was the first guy green and just never encounter a CCW holder before? Am I not supposed to tell them about it in routine "stop everyone for no reason" checks? Or am I supposed to use some different routine in rural areas than I was taught in the city? I dunno.
 
Half Fast said:
Is that 51% a rolling hourly average? :)
Click to expand...

No idea how they calculate it. What I do know is the prohibition is classified as a misdemeanor trespass with a firearm charge.

Very specific language in very specific font size and prominent display at the entry are required for businesses that want to prohibit firearms on property.

Basically, there’s only one ways to notify license To Carry individuals if trespass with a firearm is prohibited. Sign must be exact verbiage from the Texas Code and is specific to concealed carry, open carry, and the 51% rule.
 
TCABM said:
No idea how they calculate it. What I do know is the prohibition is classified as a misdemeanor trespass with a firearm charge.

Very specific language in very specific font size and prominent display at the entry are required for businesses that want to prohibit firearms on property.

Basically, there’s only one ways to notify license To Carry individuals if trespass with a firearm is prohibited. Sign must be exact verbiage from the Texas Code and is specific to concealed carry, open carry, and the 51% rule.
Click to expand...

Yes, love the Texas code. What I really love are the businesses that post great big huge prominent signs that say, "It's not legal to bring a gun in here unless you're licensed." In other words, licensed carriers are welcome in this establishment!

I bet they get fewer armed robberies.
 
TCABM said:
No idea how they calculate it. What I do know is the prohibition is classified as a misdemeanor trespass with a firearm charge.

Very specific language in very specific font size and prominent display at the entry are required for businesses that want to prohibit firearms on property.

Basically, there’s only one ways to notify license To Carry individuals if trespass with a firearm is prohibited. Sign must be exact verbiage from the Texas Code and is specific to concealed carry, open carry, and the 51% rule.
Click to expand...
I think States probably issue different liquor licenses based on that 51% rule - the difference between a bar that serves food and a restaurant that serves drinks.
 
Rushie said:
What I really love are the businesses that post great big huge prominent signs that say, "It's not legal to bring a gun in here unless you're licensed."
Click to expand...

Similarly, at our local “Gun & Drug”:

10170528254_555e1472ef_z.jpg


32154235006_3ec362ab38_q.jpg
 
Sounds like lots of lawsuits are being filed against everyone, including the musicians and the stage hands. Sounds like the resort is being considered the deep pockets.
 
Matthew said:
I think States probably issue different liquor licenses based on that 51% rule - the difference between a bar that serves food and a restaurant that serves drinks.
Click to expand...

Curiosity killed the cat, so I checked the Texas Alcohol Beverage Commission website on the 51% sign requirement and learned something new. Summary: 51% sign requires on premise consumption of alcohol and gross sales of alcohol is at least 51% of all revenue.

Per TABC:
All alcoholic beverages retailers must post one of two firearms signs.

One sign is intended for use on the types of premises where a holder of a concealed hand gun license may lawfully possess a concealed hand gun...It warns that unlicensed possession of a concealed weapon is a felony.

The second sign, the 51% sign, is to be posted on the premises of establishments where the possession of any concealed weapon is illegal.

These are establishments that are licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption whose alcohol sales constitutes more than half of gross receipts. These signs have 51% in large red letters superimposed over the warning and the warning notes that possession of a concealed weapon on the premises is a felony.

As a general rule, a true restaurant will have alcohol sales that are less than 50% of gross receipts and would be expected to post the first sign. However, if its alcohol sales are greater than 50% of gross receipts, then it would have to post the second.
 
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