Old School E6B OR Get with the Times; How should a Student Learn?

Bones

Bones

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Bones
I was discussing the other day with somone or another about whether private students should learn with old whiz-wheel style E6Bs or the new electronic flight computers/calculator style. My position was I wanted my students to see the relationships, conversions, that can be learned on the Whiz Wheel style E6B. Maybe I'm old school and just think students should get some history with their training, and learn to do it how our aviation forefathers did it.

What do you think?
 
E6B, at least in the beginning. That thing really shows you how those calculations work.
 
As someone who has been carrying a CR-5 in his shirt pocket since 1982...
I really don't think it matters. A whiz wheel IS a calculator. It has more moving parts than an electronic one, but comes up with the answers quicker ;) As long as they understand the calculations that they're making, either one should be fine.
As far as the history with the training, teach 'em with a wind triangle.

Fly safe!

David
 
Bones said:
I was discussing the other day with somone or another about whether private students should learn with old whiz-wheel style E6Bs or the new electronic flight computers/calculator style. My position was I wanted my students to see the relationships, conversions, that can be learned on the Whiz Wheel style E6B. Maybe I'm old school and just think students should get some history with their training, and learn to do it how our aviation forefathers did it.

What do you think?
Click to expand...
I'm with you, specifically for the relationships you mentioned.

But wait, there's more: I challenge anyone to outperform me on their electronic E6B and me on my original cordless, no need for batteries whiz wheel. So what you can calculate to the 5th decimal, can you fly that precise? And one mistake in button pushing takes you back to square one if you want to be certain.
 
Bones said:
I was discussing the other day with somone or another about whether private students should learn with old whiz-wheel style E6Bs or the new electronic flight computers/calculator style.
Click to expand...

I used the whiz wheel for all of my training and calculations. Just like my windup mechanical one button stopwatch for timing approaches, it doesn't need batteries and always works.
 
Whiz wheel -- first AND last. I've yet to find an electronic calculator whose batteries never run out during flight (especially PPL practical tests, where inflight recalculation is required, and I'd like to see you change the batteries while flying) and which I can operate with one hand (while the other is flying the plane).
 
I'm with Cap'n Ron and others on this - whiz wheel. One thumb operation, set-it-and-forget it when it comes to time/distance calculations, no batteries, drop-proof. Plus, it makes you think about and understand what you are doing, especially on wind-corrections.

What's not to like?

I DO keep a calculator in my flight bag for weight/balance, though.
 
What Ron said. I've also had a calculator suffer a failure of hardware that rendered it inop. Can't say that ever happened with my slide rule in college, or my mechanical E6B.
 
Whiz wheel, and not just for the reasons you mention. The whiz wheel is easier and faster to use in the plane while flying, and the batteries never die.

The only things I use my whiz wheel for was the PPL written, and for preflight planning.
 
I haven't needed to use any sort of E6B in an airplane in years and years (and years and years, etc). Battery failure in the calculator is possible, maybe even likely, but it's not as though the E6B is a critical component. I don't even use one for preflight - the flight planning software I have does all of that much faster and more accurately. The last time I used any E6B (and it was a calculator) was on a written test. Do you guys actually use these things in flight?

That said (and back to the original question), I suspect I would teach a student to use the old school E6B. I can see the value in the learning experience but I'd let them go to a calculator once they understood how to use the slide rule version.
 
gibbons said:
I haven't needed to use any sort of E6B in an airplane in years and years (and years and years, etc). Battery failure in the calculator is possible, maybe even likely, but it's not as though the E6B is a critical component. I don't even use one for preflight - the flight planning software I have does all of that much faster and more accurately. The last time I used any E6B (and it was a calculator) was on a written test. Do you guys actually use these things in flight?

That said (and back to the original question), I suspect I would teach a student to use the old school E6B. I can see the value in the learning experience but I'd let them go to a calculator once they understood how to use the slide rule version.
Click to expand...

I do use the E6B in flight. I still use charts and checkpoints to back up GPS, and the E6B to see if what the GPS is saying makes sense. I use the electronic one for weight and balance. Spent money on it... gotta use it for something!! LOL
 
I use them both with students and myself for writtens but, have never used either in other than training or test flights since the internal wind triangle and other mental calculations (if I have a mental...) developed by using those tools have always been more than adequate and faster as well.
 
I was required to use my E6B on my practical exam.
DPE Wanted ground speed. I guess you could break out a calculator,
or even pencil and paper, far easier to fly with one hand and use the E6b.
with the other.
Use the electric one on on the ground. ie: written, or for preflight planning.
I use mine for w&b mostly. ( you do your W&B calculations don't you?)
 
Wow! I guess I'm seriously outnumbered here ;)

Oddly enough, I've never met anybody other than students who had either a whiz wheel or an electronic version any closer than the bottom of their flight bag, where they couldn't find it.

Oh, well...

Fly safe!

David
 
MauleSkinner said:
Oddly enough, I've never met anybody other than students who had either a whiz wheel or an electronic version any closer than the bottom of their flight bag, where they couldn't find it.
Click to expand...

Mine is upright in the middle of my bag in a pouch. Easily grabbable (is that a word? lol) with one hand.

CFII makes me do flight plans for every lesson with it. I think maybe that's so he can charge me for twice as much time. :mad: I think I spend almost as much on him as I do the airplane! :hairraise: Oh well, he keeps me honest.

I also have to admit that I have used it on a non-checkride, non-instructed flight. I wanted to figure the winds aloft. Of course, I used the groundspeed and other data off the G430 so I can't really count it as "old school." :D
 
MauleSkinner said:
Oddly enough, I've never met anybody other than students who had either a whiz wheel or an electronic version any closer than the bottom of their flight bag, where they couldn't find it.
Click to expand...
Me, too, but when discussing the needs of a Student Pilot preparing for the PPL practical test, the fact is that the applicant will be required to recompute ETA and the wind in flight, and unless you have truly exceptional mental math skills, you're going to need some sort of computational device to get the answer. Whether you use an electronic E6B, mechanical E6B, HP math calculator, slide rule, abacus, or whatever, is up to you, but my experience as an instructor watching students do this suggests that the mechanical E6B "whiz wheel" is the only practical method for doing this while flying the airplane.
 
Ron Levy said:
but my experience as an instructor watching students do this suggests that the mechanical E6B "whiz wheel" is the only practical method for doing this while flying the airplane.
Click to expand...

Have you ever noticed that the key time you need to do calculations is when all else is going to pot and you really need to concentrate on flying the airplane? My typical flight requires far less fuel than the plane carries (a lot less - 50% or so). My typical route can be flown by pilotage (looking out the window). Calculations were done before takeoff and any variations can typically be done in my head (sorry, I'm an engineer and slide rule accuracy mult/division at these levels isn't difficult). The E6B offers one handed operation when you really need it, but, like Ron and others, it occupies space in my flight bag. Not on the bottom, on its side so it can be found quickly, typically by my wife. I really ought to dig it out and play with it now and then, just to stay proficient. :D
 
I think that there is a tendency to focus on tools, when basic mental arithmetic would give you a pretty good idea - and while not an instructor, for basic piloting, I am suprised more emphasis isn't placed on that. Certainly accuracy is more important for more complex ratings, but a Private Pilot should be able to navigate with his eyes and a map - do they really need to be able to predict to the second when they'll cross that 4 mile wide lake they have as a checkpoint ?

My Instructor was always suprised that I could 'guesstimate' the answer close enough to be useful, and far far quicker than getting the E6-B out, trying to remember what to type or how to spin the wheels.

Ins : "What was your time to the check point ?"
Me : "about 11 minutes. A bit slower than the plan"
Ins : "Would you still make your destination ?"
Me : "Should do - but I'd check some subsequent check points to ensure it"
Ins : "Ok, put those foggles on, and lets do some fun stuff..."
 
Ron Levy said:
Whiz wheel -- first AND last. I've yet to find an electronic calculator whose batteries never run out during flight (especially PPL practical tests, where inflight recalculation is required, and I'd like to see you change the batteries while flying) and which I can operate with one hand (while the other is flying the plane).
Click to expand...

I was taught the whiz wheel. I used the electronic E6B for all preflight planning, but only carried the whiz wheel in the airplane.
 
I have both. When I was in training for my PP I started with the wizzer and moved on to sporty's e6b device afterward. I found it somewhat interesting to get the calculations I was looking for out of this funky looking contraption and they were always close enough to right to keep me interested. So I learned how to use the wizwheel e6b first, but finished my training with the sportys electronic e6b. I used it to check my work on the wizzer and also help with time management. When I was doing my X-C flight plans early in the AM before a flight it took me too long in my opinion for the amount of time I had available to me. Also while in flight with an instructor or examiner hovering over me I wanted to just get the answer and be done with it. I found myself getting a bit out of it with charts and wiz wheel and fly the plane, and oh yeah theres a guy to your right seat watching you, that always gets me a bit edgy :-)

Today in my flight back I carry both my wizwheel and electronic e6b but I am glad I learned how to use the wizwheel first.
 
Bones said:
I was discussing the other day with somone or another about whether private students should learn with old whiz-wheel style E6Bs or the new electronic flight computers/calculator style. My position was I wanted my students to see the relationships, conversions, that can be learned on the Whiz Wheel style E6B. Maybe I'm old school and just think students should get some history with their training, and learn to do it how our aviation forefathers did it.

What do you think?
Click to expand...

Old School all the way.

The whiz wheel will always work and can be stored indefinetly in the student flight bag without fear of the batteries goign flat. Teaching why ond how the wind correction works is much easier on the whiz wheel becasue the student can see the affects on the plane and how the heading change compensates for that. After they master the E6B they can get the elctronic vesion and adapt to it very easily.
 
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