Ok - why is this important on a sectional?

If you get stranded between Mono Lake and Mammoth, you can find a source of water as long as you have a shovel.
 
On Google maps it looks like there's some sort of road that sits on top of it.

But yeah. That information on a section is totally useless since you can't physically see the aqueduct.
 
If its like the covered aquaduct here in So Cal, its covered with concrete, it basically looks like a road, so its probably visible from the air.
 
There's nothing visible on the surface. I didn't see any when flying and checking google earth, nada.
 
mtuomi said:
There's nothing visible on the surface. I didn't see any when flying and checking google earth, nada.
Click to expand...

I looked at Google maps and there looks like there's some sort of road that goes off to the east/northeast across 395 from the top of Grant Lake. Then it trails off to the southeast. I think that's it.
 
mtuomi said:
There's nothing visible on the surface. I didn't see any when flying and checking google earth, nada.
Click to expand...

Also, if you can talk to whoever up there is responsible for cloud height up there, I'm trying to get into LVK on Friday. So if you can put in a good word with the ceiling gods, that'd be good.
 
mtuomi said:
There's nothing visible on the surface. I didn't see any when flying and checking google earth, nada.
Click to expand...

Toggling between street and aerial maps on Forflight you can see it. Its labled Monto Craters Tunnel and looks like it paralles Bald Mountain Road. Its an unusually straight road for the area so it probably stands out from the air.
 
G-force said:
Toggling between street and aerial maps on Forflight you can see it. Its labled Monto Craters Tunnel and looks like it paralles Bald Mountain Road. Its an unusually straight road for the area so it probably stands out from the air.
Click to expand...

It does not stand out from the air. And the resolution of the sectional is nowhere nearly usable for that. You can't see bald mt road from the air anyway. It's just map clutter.
 
Clouds are low. Really low. There you are, following the road. Fat dumb and happy, in and out of the vehicle antennae. All of a sudden you are in a tunnel. You don't want to be surprised by that, you know. Oh, wait this is a waterway. Change that to flying around boats.
 
Sounds like someone needs to brush up on their dead reckoning skills.
 
mtuomi said:
"Underground aqueduct"? What exactly am I supposed to do with this information?
Click to expand...

An aqueduct is defined as "a bridgelike structure that carries a water conduit or canal across a valley or over a river." An "underground aqueduct" sounds like a contradiction in terms.
 
Reminds me of this.
192b84c543dee875341cd26a75e5268d.jpg


These were definitely visible from the air since it takes a lot of excavation to put those suckers in.
 
roncachamp said:
An aqueduct is defined as "a bridgelike structure that carries a water conduit or canal across a valley or over a river." An "underground aqueduct" sounds like a contradiction in terms.
Click to expand...

You need a better dictionary. There are MANY aqueducts that do not fit that definition. Like, almost all of them. Most of them resemble canals, except they are not for navigation. The one in question is a large pipeline. Some of the older ones (especially at Owens Valley) are siphons.

Like most long distance utilities, this one has an obvious surface disturbance and a service road.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8153482,-118.9813822,13586m/data=!3m1!1e3

The aqueduct is the straight linear disturbance trending northwest near Bald Mountain.

Note that it looks like an uncharted dry lake right next to it. That's an ash pile, a terrible place for an emergency landing. Lots of recent volcanism around there.
 
MAKG1 said:
You need a better dictionary. There are MANY aqueducts that do not fit that definition. Like, almost all of them. Most of them resemble canals, except they are not for navigation. The one in question is a large pipeline. Some of the older ones (especially at Owens Valley) are siphons.
Click to expand...

I think the folks who are calling pipelines "underground aqueducts" should actually examine a dictionary.
 
roncachamp said:
I think the folks who are calling pipelines "underground aqueducts" should actually examine a dictionary.
Click to expand...

When you build something, you get to name it. It doesn't matter what some guy on the internet with a bad dictionary thinks.

If you want to take on Mulholland, go ahead. But you'll need a medium since he's been dead for decades.
 
Underground pipelines are charted, too. There are right-of-ways that must be maintained above these pipelines and they are very visible from the air. It may be a little harder to see the right-of-way for this aqueduct, but I'm guessing it's charted because there is some surface feature (i.e. - maintained right-of-way) associated with it.
 
MAKG1 said:
When you build something, you get to name it. It doesn't matter what some guy on the internet with a bad dictionary thinks.
Click to expand...

When you build a pipeline and choose to call it an underground aqueduct you look stupid. Just as you do when you tell some guy on the internet who actually uses a dictionary that he needs a better one.
 
Words mean what we want them to mean.
 
ircphoenix said:
Also, if you can talk to whoever up there is responsible for cloud height up there, I'm trying to get into LVK on Friday. So if you can put in a good word with the ceiling gods, that'd be good.
Click to expand...
Rain does not necessarily mean there will be low ceilings. In spite of the rain in the forecast, LVK is currently forecasting VFR for the next 24 hours, with the worst being a 3500 foot ceiling overnight.
 
Palmpilot said:
Rain does not necessarily mean there will be low ceilings. In spite of the rain in the forecast, LVK is currently forecasting VFR for the next 24 hours, with the worst being a 3500 foot ceiling overnight.
Click to expand...

The problem with KLVK is that often the 2000-3500ft clouds end up obscuring the hills around Livermore, so even though field would be fine for VFR, you can't go anywhere.
 
MAKG1 said:
When you build something, you get to name it.
Click to expand...
Until a corporate sponsor comes along, pays a lot of money to the city, county, etc. and renames it.

The one that gets me is "improvised explosive device." Oh, you mean a bomb? There was a news report about U.S. forces doing an air strike in Iraq on a factory producing IEDs. Well, I guess they weren't all that improvised if there was a factory making them!!! :mad::mad: Typical of military acronyms/initialisms.
 
pburger said:
Underground pipelines are charted, too. There are right-of-ways that must be maintained above these pipelines and they are very visible from the air. It may be a little harder to see the right-of-way for this aqueduct, but I'm guessing it's charted because there is some surface feature (i.e. - maintained right-of-way) associated with it.
Click to expand...
It depends entirely where the ROW are. Not much maintenance of the ROW in western Kansas or other farm country...

Powerline ROW on the other hand are usually maintained to some degree. Pipeline, not so much though there are some inspection requirements if the pipeline is a common carrier.
 
MAKG1 said:
You need a better dictionary. There are MANY aqueducts that do not fit that definition. Like, almost all of them. Most of them resemble canals, except they are not for navigation. The one in question is a large pipeline. Some of the older ones (especially at Owens Valley) are siphons.

Like most long distance utilities, this one has an obvious surface disturbance and a service road.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8153482,-118.9813822,13586m/data=!3m1!1e3

The aqueduct is the straight linear disturbance trending northwest near Bald Mountain.

Note that it looks like an uncharted dry lake right next to it. That's an ash pile, a terrible place for an emergency landing. Lots of recent volcanism around there.
Click to expand...

Here's where it goes underground at one end:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7568295,-118.8908466,168m/data=!3m1!1e3
 
roncachamp said:
When you build a pipeline and choose to call it an underground aqueduct you look stupid. Just as you do when you tell some guy on the internet who actually uses a dictionary that he needs a better one.
Click to expand...

And arguing a with a dead guy doesn't look dumb?

Like it or not, that "definition" does not match actual usage. Dictionaries are supposed to do that. So, you can fight your windmills if you want, but the name IS NOT going to change, nor is anyone but you going to care.

On the other hand, you might pick a dictionary that actually matches usage. 'Cause it's useless if it doesn't. Dictionaries do not determine language. It's the other way around.
 
mtuomi said:
The problem with KLVK is that often the 2000-3500ft clouds end up obscuring the hills around Livermore, so even though field would be fine for VFR, you can't go anywhere.
Click to expand...
2500 is the effective limit, as the terrain is right around 1000 at Sunol and Altamont. I've gone through both with 3500. The passes are fortunately quite wide, but it's not comfy with it that close, VFR, as it's not easy to dodge traffic.

With 2500, you can be 500 below clouds and 1000 above terrain. With no margin.
 
1000 above terrain and 30ft above the wind turbines. Would be a bit too hairy for me :)
The only "low terrain" way in is from the north past Walnut Creek, but that's a long detour if you're coming from the south.
 
Palmpilot said:
Rain does not necessarily mean there will be low ceilings. In spite of the rain in the forecast, LVK is currently forecasting VFR for the next 24 hours, with the worst being a 3500 foot ceiling overnight.
Click to expand...

Just sayin':

KLVK 272017Z 08007KT 2SM -RA BR SCT022 OVC031 16/14 A2995 RMK AO2 VIS 1 1/4V4 RAB1954 P0003 T01610139
 
mtuomi said:
The problem with KLVK is that often the 2000-3500ft clouds end up obscuring the hills around Livermore, so even though field would be fine for VFR, you can't go anywhere.
Click to expand...
The highest obstacle that I saw on the TAC chart in the Altamont Pass area was one of the wind farms, at just under 2,000. A 3500 foot ceiling at LVK would be 3900 MSL. 500 feet below that would be 3400 MSL, which would clear the obstacles by 1400 feet.

Of course, forecasts are often wrong, and the one for LVK was wrong within the past hour, with an unforecast ceiling of 3100, and an unforecast visibility of 1 3/4.
 
When the "ceiling" was 3100, you could not see the top of the hills at Altamont (my office window looks towards the pass so this is real time info :) )
LVK cloud metars are very unreliable. I would avoid flying in unless you're coming in from the north, when ceilings are reported to be below 3500.

Currently they are reporting BKN020 OVC039, and you cannot see the top of the Brushy Peak because it's obscured by clouds.
 
I'd be coming in from the south... and it's a long way to dodge mountains at 3500 feet if ceilings stayed technically VFR the whole way.
 
mtuomi said:
...I would avoid flying in unless you're coming in from the north, when ceilings are reported to be below 3500....
Click to expand...
Good point. He could fly up to the Sacramento River and then down I-680.

We're certainly getting a good demonstration of how iffy forecasts are.
 
They have these canals in Colorado. And when they come to a gully, a big gully, like 200' deep or more. They put the canal in a pipe and down, then up. Interesting that it works without pumping. The net from one end to the other must be down. Don't go tubing in there :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top