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Skylane81E

Skylane81E

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Lyc O320, recent dramatic increase in operation.

Just pulled a significant amount of rust out of the screen and filter. I know what parts are steel in the engine, but not wich are likely to rust and flake. It's not from a surface that contacts anything as the flakes show no wear.

Any bright ideas?:dunno: I've only ever seen rust like this come from the inside of the oil filler tube on TCM 360s.
 
It comes from the crank and rods exterior.
 

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Off to look for an easy hole to shove my camera into.

(keep your minds out of the gutter):rofl:
 
Skylane81E said:
Lyc O320, recent dramatic increase in operation.

Just pulled a significant amount of rust out of the screen and filter. I know what parts are steel in the engine, but not wich are likely to rust and flake. It's not from a surface that contacts anything as the flakes show no wear.

Any bright ideas?:dunno: I've only ever seen rust like this come from the inside of the oil filler tube on TCM 360s.
Click to expand...

There's plenty of steel "non contact" surface that could rust and flake. Magneto impulses rust like crazy so I'd pull the left mag and inspect the impulse and gear as well as the other gears partially visible with mag removed. Next would be steel pushrod tubes, pushrods, valve springs. The non contact areas of the cam and crank but no way to see any of that without removing cylinders. Charlie Melot Zephyr Engines
 
charlie said:
There's plenty of steel "non contact" surface that could rust and flake. Magneto impulses rust like crazy so I'd pull the left mag and inspect the impulse and gear as well as the other gears partially visible with mag removed. Next would be steel pushrod tubes, pushrods, valve springs. The non contact areas of the cam and crank but no way to see any of that without removing cylinders. Charlie Melot Zephyr Engines
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Great idea,
 

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Isn't using Aeroslime a great idea?
 
Thanks guys, working mostly on flight school planes rust in engines isn't something I see very often.
 
Skylane81E said:
Thanks guys, working mostly on flight school planes rust in engines isn't something I see very often.
Click to expand...

I don't do Lycomings very often. But I have never torn one down that did not have some corrosion. It seems that mostly it doesn't bother the operation, but when you start seeing it in the filer you must find where it is coming from, and stop the oil contamination, or you loose the crank.
 
You guys have been in a lot more airplane engines than me, Charlie by a marathon, but whenever I've seen 'Flakes' of hard metal in a Lycoming, I was splitting a case and doing a cam not long after.
 
And the winner is...


charlie said:
There's plenty of steel "non contact" surface that could rust and flake. Magneto impulses rust like crazy so I'd pull the left mag and inspect the impulse and gear as well as the other gears partially visible with mag removed. Next would be steel pushrod tubes, pushrods, valve springs. The non contact areas of the cam and crank but no way to see any of that without removing cylinders. Charlie Melot Zephyr Engines
Click to expand...

With an assist from

Tom-D said:
Great idea,
Click to expand...

For the pictures.



Owner came in on his lunch break, he also wants a cylinder pulled to ensure the rust isn't up in that area too. Also plan on pulling the sump to clean out anything that might be laying in there too.
 
So, what schould or shouldn't I accept in the bottom end rust wise?

It's not too bad but doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling either.

The #2 cylinder that I pulled is glazed to hell and back, and where it isn't it's pitted.
 
We discussed it with the owner, showed him what we found and decided that tomorrow the engine comes off and will go to the local engine shop. It made all of us nervous and the owner wants to know that the engine is safe.
 
Skylane81E said:
We discussed it with the owner, showed him what we found and decided that tomorrow the engine comes off and will go to the local engine shop. It made all of us nervous and the owner wants to know that the engine is safe.
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The right result, sounds like to me.
 
Henning said:
You guys have been in a lot more airplane engines than me, Charlie by a marathon, but whenever I've seen 'Flakes' of hard metal in a Lycoming, I was splitting a case and doing a cam not long after.
Click to expand...
The Rust flakes in the filter isn't hard iron flakes.

Rust in the filter is not a sign the engine is making metal. But if the source isn't found quickly, the engine will start making metal.
 
Skylane81E said:
We discussed it with the owner, showed him what we found and decided that tomorrow the engine comes off and will go to the local engine shop. It made all of us nervous and the owner wants to know that the engine is safe.
Click to expand...

I think I would have done a lot more trouble shooting before I pushed the Panic button and pulled it.
 
Skylane81E said:
So, what schould or shouldn't I accept in the bottom end rust wise?
surface rust on the crank and rods do not effect the engine performance I'd not panic over it.

It's not too bad but doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling either.

The #2 cylinder that I pulled is glazed to hell and back, and where it isn't it's pitted.
Click to expand...

Well you found where the rust is coming from. That cylinder may be usable too, what was the oil consumption prior? What does the cylinder show for wear? .005 Plus ?
what is the ring end gap? What's the T-SMOH

4 new cylinder kits and a good flush might fix it.
 
charlie said:
There's plenty of steel "non contact" surface that could rust and flake. Magneto impulses rust like crazy so I'd pull the left mag and inspect the impulse and gear as well as the other gears partially visible with mag removed. Next would be steel pushrod tubes, pushrods, valve springs. The non contact areas of the cam and crank but no way to see any of that without removing cylinders. Charlie Melot Zephyr Engines
Click to expand...

Ive had a brand new impulse coupling on my plane get rusty in the first six months, seems to be a common problem.
 
Tom-D said:
I think I would have done a lot more trouble shooting before I pushed the Panic button and pulled it.
Click to expand...


Not really a whole lot more to do, yeah I could measure the cylinders but we know they need to go any way, owner decided to pull the plug on paying us to keep looking and just have it fixed. He's still a student and doesn't want any worry about what was or wasn't missed.

His dollar and I don't feel he was wrong in the call either.
 
Henning said:
How would rust from the impulse coupler get in the oil?
Click to expand...

the impulse coupling is in the accessory case, directly attached to the drive gear. which is at the top of the case where the steam is from the water boiling off
 
Tom-D said:
the impulse coupling is in the accessory case, directly attached to the drive gear. which is at the top of the case where the steam is from the water boiling off
Click to expand...

:confused: I guess it's too many years since I had one apart, but I thought the impulse coupler was in front of the oil seal.
 
Henning said:
:confused: I guess it's too many years since I had one apart, but I thought the impulse coupler was in front of the oil seal.
Click to expand...

It is..
 

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timwinters said:
Ed Kollin recommends both Aeroshell & Phillips as good oils and I'll put my money on Ed's knowledge when it comes to oils and lubricants.
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Let me clarify that, Ed recommends STRAIGHT WEIGHT Aeroshell and Phillips. Synthetics and semisynthetics like such as Aeroshell 20-50 are on the 'do not use' list.
 
Well close, he recommends straight weight Aeroshell and multi-weight Phillips.
 
Henning said:
He holds no voids against straight weight Phillips that I recall.
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From a post he made two days ago on another board:

"I only recommend the Aeroshell W100 or the Phillips 20W-50 oils.

Ed"
 
timwinters said:
From a post he made two days ago on another board:

"I only recommend the Aeroshell W100 or the Phillips 20W-50 oils.

Ed"
Click to expand...


Hmmm, probably because it's multi vis as I doubt Phillips changed their straight weight, but who knows, he keeps up on it, I sure don't. Ed called me once and spent an hour or so on the phone with me spelling it all out, a very generous guy with his time and knowledge. What he advised me to avoid specifically with 100LL is any synthetic due to it's poor reaction with the contaminants that 100LL produces vs the ones MoGas produces which it's designed to work with.
 
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