OBL Raid Helo

ScottM

ScottM

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iBazinga!
Has anyone checked out the photos of the aftermath of the raid on the OBL compound?

PHOTO LINK be aware that there are also picture of three dead people in those photos shows the helicopter that was left behind in the compound. The tail rotor picture is very interesting.

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That does not look like the tail of any Blackhawk helicopter I have seen before.

This is the tail rotor of the Blackhawk
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Is there some new helo that the military is using that is only for black ops? From the few facets on the tail rotor I am wondering if there is some stealth capability. Wasn't the stealth chopper project stopped a while ago.

This is interesting.
 

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ScottM said:
...be aware that there are also picture of three dead people in those photos...
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Good thing we didn't release any bloody photos of OBL, because ... um ... the sight of such violent images would, like ... hmmm....
-harry
 
Pure speculation, but it may have been a blackhawk/pavehawk variant modified to reduce radar cross section. Another photo I saw looked like some H-60 parts
 
ABC Evening news says that it was a stealthier version of the blackhawk.. still secret.. hence the reason it was destroyed by the departing team.

Showed video of kids walking around with black fiber aircraft skin, as well the tail surfaces.
 
ScottM said:
Wasn't the stealth chopper project stopped a while ago.
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At least that is what the chinese and other nefarious characters were led to believe :) .
 
Was this the pilot?
airwolf.jpg
 
weilke said:
At least that is what the chinese and other nefarious characters were led to believe :) .
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I am sure that the Chinese will be given the opportunity to closely examine the wreckage before it is returned to us. Then we will be able to buy reverse engineered Low Observable Blackhawks from them. The toy model will be at Wal Mart in a week or two.
 
Well let's think about this.

We didn't tell the Pakistanis,
We didn't get intecepted by their air deffence,

They didn't see us comming QED.

Some where some one needs to change his pants knowing that we can come and go as we please.
 
All I can say is :thumbsup:
 
Skylane81E said:
Well let's think about this.

We didn't tell the Pakistanis,
We didn't get intecepted by their air deffence,

They didn't see us comming QED.

Some where some one needs to change his pants knowing that we can come and go as we please.
Click to expand...



NICE !
 
Skylane81E said:
Well let's think about this.

We didn't tell the Pakistanis,
We didn't get intecepted by their air deffence,

They didn't see us comming QED.

Some where some one needs to change his pants knowing that we can come and go as we please.
Click to expand...

Also. Power went out before raid. I'm thinking we had assets on the ground too.

Finally. 20 shooters/team members on the raid? Had to be more than two helos. If they were uh60 variants....I just don't think they all piled in one bird for the ride home.
 
Doggtyred said:
Also. Power went out before raid. I'm thinking we had assets on the ground too.

Finally. 20 shooters/team members on the raid? Had to be more than two helos. If they were uh60 variants....I just don't think they all piled in one bird for the ride home.
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There were more than two helos. There were a couple Chinooks with back up teams and yes I bet we had assets on the ground. The details of this mission may never be publicly known.
 
Doggtyred said:
Also. Power went out before raid. I'm thinking we had assets on the ground too.

Finally. 20 shooters/team members on the raid? Had to be more than two helos. If they were uh60 variants....I just don't think they all piled in one bird for the ride home.
Click to expand...

As I hear it, they boarded Chinooks that were also flown in JUST IN CASE they had a helo problem or had to fight their way out. Question is, how'd the Chinooks get in without getting painted on radar? No way those puppies are stealth.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Question is, how'd the Chinooks get in without getting painted on radar? No way those puppies are stealth.
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The simple explanation would be that the pakistani airforce received information about some 'activity' in a particular sector without details as to what exactly was going down. Towards the tail end of the mission, they got the go-ahead to scramble their fighters so they could look somewhat less like the keystone cops towards their own population.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
As I hear it, they boarded Chinooks that were also flown in JUST IN CASE they had a helo problem or had to fight their way out. Question is, how'd the Chinooks get in without getting painted on radar? No way those puppies are stealth.
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Who is to say that the Chinooks had not already been there and were explained by a cover story?

According to the WH the Pakistanis were not notified until the mission was complete. The SecDef called his counterpart as did the DirCIA and told them an operation was carried out and complete.
 
ScottM said:
There were more than two helos. There were a couple Chinooks with back up teams and yes I bet we had assets on the ground. The details of this mission may never be publicly known.
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Nothing wrong with that. Lots of things we don't need to know, the details of this are one of them.

TangoWhiskey said:
As I hear it, they boarded Chinooks that were also flown in JUST IN CASE they had a helo problem or had to fight their way out. Question is, how'd the Chinooks get in without getting painted on radar? No way those puppies are stealth.
Click to expand...

If they came in after the raid had started (which seems probable), they were probably low enough to the ground to not be on radar, and by that point they were able to get in and out before there was time for the Pakistani forces to respond. And I'm sure they were operating without required nav lights and beacon. ;)
 
The whole sequence of events in the official story of the raid doesn't add up for me.

A 40 minute raid that starts with hovering helicopters and a helicopter crash. 30 minutes later, after shots are exchanged, OBL is still caught without a weapon in his hands and without trying to escape.

My guess is that the troops came in on the ground, by HALO, or some other method that is quieter than even a stealty helicopter. They entered the compound, scaled the building, and entered all 3 floors of the facilty more or less at one time, with a big surprise factor. That's the only thing that would explain OBL's lack of reaction to the claimed 30 minutes of chaos in his compound.

Then, we sent in stealth helo's to extracate the troops because exfiltrating by ground would have been tough with a nation full of PO'd locals looking for the Seals on their way out. And the Seals would have been burdened by "the dead guy" and his computers, making a ground exfiltration even more difficult.

Thoughts?
 
kyleb said:
The whole sequence of events in the official story of the raid doesn't add up for me.

A 40 minute raid that starts with hovering helicopters and a helicopter crash. 30 minutes later, after shots are exchanged, OBL is still caught without a weapon in his hands and without trying to escape.

My guess is that the troops came in on the ground, by HALO, or some other method that is quieter than even a stealty helicopter. They entered the compound, scaled the building, and entered all 3 floors of the facilty more or less at one time, with a big surprise factor. That's the only thing that would explain OBL's lack of reaction to the claimed 30 minutes of chaos in his compound.

Then, we sent in stealth helo's to extracate the troops because exfiltrating by ground would have been tough with a nation full of PO'd locals looking for the Seals on their way out. And the Seals would have been burdened by "the dead guy" and his computers, making a ground exfiltration even more difficult.

Thoughts?
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While this is a logical suggestion, HALO would be less advantageous. For one, it would be difficult for the team to scale walls under fire without sniper cover, which separates the team. It also takes longer to regroup after the jump, move to positions, get set up, coordinate movement etc...
Using helicopters and fast-rope, walls are not an issue, the helo's carry miniguns, and precision sniper support can also function from the helo. If two helicopters were used, split the force in half so there are two teams. Team one ropes to outside the building, within the walls and secures the exterior while the other ropes in to the uppermost roof and clears the building from the top down. Gravity works for the team this way, and momentum is easier to maintain, not to mention anyone attempting to escape from within the building is pushed outside to the perimeter team.
Considering we did not want Pakistan in on this one, speed was extremely important...secure, kill/(detain), gather intel, get gone before anyone else realizes what's going on. The Chinooks were likely carrying some additional support (which might even be used to secure the exterior of the compund, i.e. outside the walls:dunno:), but also served as a paddy wagon if necessary. Seeing those big birds at Bragg skimming trees with a howitzer slung under its belly is a helluva sight; no doubt they were flying real low for this one too, but not likely right behind the stealths...
All anyone can do is guess such details, but that's what my limited experiance suggests...
 
airbornejohnny said:
While this is a logical suggestion, HALO would be less advantageous. For one, it would be difficult for the team to scale walls under fire without sniper cover, which separates the team. It also takes longer to regroup after the jump, move to positions, get set up, coordinate movement etc...
Using helicopters and fast-rope, walls are not an issue, the helo's carry miniguns, and precision sniper support can also function from the helo. If two helicopters were used, split the force in half so there are two teams. Team one ropes to outside the building, within the walls and secures the exterior while the other ropes in to the uppermost roof and clears the building from the top down. Gravity works for the team this way, and momentum is easier to maintain, not to mention anyone attempting to escape from within the building is pushed outside to the perimeter team.
Considering we did not want Pakistan in on this one, speed was extremely important...secure, kill/(detain), gather intel, get gone before anyone else realizes what's going on. The Chinooks were likely carrying some additional support (which might even be used to secure the exterior of the compund, i.e. outside the walls:dunno:), but also served as a paddy wagon if necessary. Seeing those big birds at Bragg skimming trees with a howitzer slung under its belly is a helluva sight; no doubt they were flying real low for this one too, but not likely right behind the stealths...
All anyone can do is guess such details, but that's what my limited experiance suggests...
Click to expand...
I'm no expert but the stuff I've read suggesting 40 navy seals seems way overkill. Perhaps they didn't want to take any chances but it seems like things would get complicated with that many people involved. The only way I can figure that they would need that much manpower is if they were expecting the possibility of a hell of a fight from outside the compound. I can't see them having actually put that many men on the ground given the lack of resistance. If they did put that many on the ground I would suspect there were a lot of seals outside the compound.

But then again I know nothing about this stuff. Just my logical brain thinking about the situation and the resources.
 
jesse said:
I'm no expert but the stuff I've read suggesting 40 navy seals seems way overkill. Perhaps they didn't want to take any chances but it seems like things would get complicated with that many people involved. The only way I can figure that they would need that much manpower is if they were expecting the possibility of a hell of a fight from outside the compound. I can't see them having actually put that many men on the ground given the lack of resistance. If they did put that many on the ground I would suspect there were a lot of seals outside the compound.

But then again I know nothing about this stuff. Just my logical brain thinking about the situation and the resources.
Click to expand...

They could be the backup though, was where i meant for that to imply...since we didn't tell the locals, if the fit hit the shan we best have assets as close as possible, ready to rock. Plan for the worst, hope for the best:dunno:
I'd be interested in the method they chose since it worked perfectly, minus a helo:sad:
 
Well I can't tell you a thing that is current. But the mindset from 1974 was "use overwhelming force". You can bet your sweet patooties that there were not just 21 armed guys and 3 pilots. No way.

Especially in a friendly country, if they still have that mentality, it means there were backup ground assets and some really really big transport helos, as well as a few gunships. There had to be a backup extrication plan. There had to be a Civil authority engagement plan. And you had to have a dead man/wounded man extraction plan. This isn't RAMBO.

There had to be an AF-Pakistan engagement plan. You don't come back with more weight than you went it with, with 2/3rd of the lift. Yeah, I know they had two hour's fuel burn down. But eight fully equipped guys per is really pushing it with flight crew and fuel to get out.

The AF of Pakistan may have been alerted that we were conducting an air exercise north of the capital.....and all the specs were cover. The stealth H60s were the meat- the other stuff was expected to be seen.

Lots we don't know nor need to know.
 
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Doggtyred said:
Also. Power went out before raid. I'm thinking we had assets on the ground too.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't count on it being due to us. Remember the guy who unwittingly live-tweeted the whole thing? The previous day, he'd been bitching about the power being out for 18 of 24 hours; it seems that's a subject he tweets about a lot.
 
bbchien said:
Well I can't tell you a thing that is current. But the mindset from 1974 was "use overwhelming force". You can bet your sweet patooties that there were not just 21 armed guys and 3 pilots. No way.

Especially in a friendly country, if they still have that mentality, it means there were backup ground assets and some really really big transport helos, as well as a few gunships. There had to be a backup extrication plan. There had to be a Civil authority engagement plan. And you had to have a dead man/wounded man extraction plan. This isn't RAMBO.

There had to be an AF-Pakistan engagement plan. You don't come back with more weight than you went it with, with 2/3rd of the lift. Yeah, I know they had two hour's fuel burn down. But eight fully equipped guys per is really pushing it with flight crew and fuel to get out.

The AF of Pakistan may have been alerted that we were conducting an air exercise north of the capital.....and all the specs were cover. The stealth H60s were the meat- the other stuff was expected to be seen.
Click to expand...

Precisely the sort of planning and detail I'd expect from the group that's supposed to be the best of the best. The "use overwhelming force" also seems logical to me. I'd imagine they wouldn't know whether they'd be having 5, 15, or 50 people to kill.

Lots we don't know nor need to know.
Click to expand...

Precisely.
 
Eh, it's a diversion I believe.
 
weilke said:
You mean that fake tail-rotor assembly was trucked in while the seals were doing their thing :dunno:.
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No. Like, we just WANT people to think that's what we're capable of...
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I wouldn't count on it being due to us. Remember the guy who unwittingly live-tweeted the whole thing? The previous day, he'd been bitching about the power being out for 18 of 24 hours; it seems that's a subject he tweets about a lot.
Click to expand...

I know nothing about Pakistan, but FWIW, before we engaged in OIF, ALL of the cities in Iraq had a period of no power because it was redirected to Baghdad for 24/7 power there. It was a rotational thing...some cities we didn't notice, probably b/c it was rerouted during the day.
Some locals in Karbala had invested in a pretty big generator so a few neighbors could keep their power on, but it came out of their own pockets as far as I know...
 
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