NYC Motorcycle / SUV Chase

[ScottM]

Our founding fathers and the Constitution intended that people have the right to bear arms. The Constitution protects the right for the people to form armed militias. People that argue that militias have the right to bear arms, not the people is absurd.
http://rense.com/general2/right.htm

No one is arguing that point. You are missing the main topic.

What is being stated is that the right to self defense had been a right that preceded the 2nd Amendment and was not made to address that topic. It was not really even on the table as it was considered obvious. Nor were they having a discussion on law enforcement corruption as you wrote. The issue was about standing armies and state militias. Go look at Article 1 Section 8, I gave you the link. You will note that the Federal Government can raise a Navy, NOT an army, but later one of the enumerated powers is to organize and arm militias. I find it interesting that they felt the defense of the land in the US was to be left to the citizens and that the defense of the nation from sea attack was a federal issue. This is because in the 18th century attacks would come from the sea and protection of our trade routes were considered more important. The only role for an army was as a militia to keep the slaves in line. So the citizenry was charged with that level of law enforcement.

Keep in mind at the time of the founding of the USA that there was not a true unity of mind and spirit. The idea that one 'country' was the state they lived in remained until the end of the civil war 88 years later. The tenuous confederation of former colonies at the time was suspicious of each other. The idea of having a standing army was very much a concern of some states, especially the south, that said army could be used against them. That type of hysteria eventually came to be as we all know. Also we were in big time debt to the European powers and simply could not afford the standing army. So protecting the right to arms for militia purposes solved several issue. It was never really discussed to disarm the neo-American people. The whole conversation was to ensure that they states could have these militias of civilian volunteers.

 

[No Joy]

No one is arguing that point. You are missing the main topic.

Quite the contrary. Your missing the point because you keep on going off-topic.

Power corrupts. Law-enforcement, politicians and other government entities are intrinsically derelict, incompetent and bigoted. That's why the Constitution states we should have equal protection under the law. That's one of the main reasons we have the right to bear arms. So we can protect ourselves.

Our founding fathers came from countries that the upper-class was largely protected by laws, where the underclass was largely subject and exploited by the law. Despite all of the taxes, it was common for law enforcement to expect protection money above and beyond taxes. Some the things that our founding fathers have put into the Constitution, are designed to try to prevent those abuses.

While I haven't personally seen any law enforcement asking for protection money. I do see much disparity between how the upper and lower classes are treated by law enforcement and the judicial system. Government is not abiding by the Constitution, in regards to equal protection under the law.

 

[redtail]

Hard to draw when you're not carrying.

The NYPD PIO has said that they weren't armed.

Oh ok, thought I read that they were carrying. Maybe I was reading someone's speculation.

 

[No Joy]

It seems as expected some of the perpetrators are trying to play victim.

Allegedly one or more of the biker gang is trying to claim that the driver of the SUV provoked the confrontations. It seems that one or more of the bikers claimed that the confrontation started before the video started when the SUV driver allegedly hit and broke his mirror striking one of the bikers. However in the video just prior to the motorcycle brake checking the SUV, both mirrors appear to be intact.

Authorities are looking into everything that unfolded along the ride's path from lower to upper Manhattan, including the possibility a motorcyclist hit the SUV, not the other way around, and broke its side mirror before the encounters on the video, said a law enforcement official, who hadn't been authorized to discuss the inquiry and spoke to The Associated Press on the condition of anonymity.

http://www.windsorstar.com/news/Bik...ffcamera+runin+with+driver/9024314/story.html

 

[Henning]

Hard to draw when you're not carrying.

The NYPD PIO has said that they weren't armed.

And we all know cops never lie...

 

[No Joy]

Matthew Rodriguez of internal affairs, admits he took part in the ride with the motorcycle gang. Though it is suspicious that he took so long to come forward, it's not publicly known if he participated in criminal activity or not.

The IAB officer could face disciplinary measures within the NYPD for failing to come forward sooner, such as obstructing governmental administration and official misconduct. Rodriguez could also be hit with a criminal charge for failing to intervene in the attack that sent the driver of the black Range Rover, Alexian Lien, to the hospital.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/ne...-admits-to-being-on-scene-during-biker-melee/

 

[Henning]

Here's an interesting tidbit for those who say the cops had no obligation to intervene:

Rodriguez could also be hit with a criminal charge for failing to intervene in the attack that sent the driver of the black Range Rover, Alexian Lien, to the hospital.

 

[DavidWhite]

He pulls his, they (off duty cops) pull theirs=dead driver, wife & kid. No doubt about it.

I'm a little surprised they didn't draw on him as he used his SUV to defend himself and family. Too bad he didn't put more of them in the hospital. And I'm glad that the one he did, didn't die.

I agree, wholeheartedly.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

I watched a great moving last night on netflix....
"Assault on WALL STREET"

It takes a few minutes to get going but it was really great.

 

[Skylane81E]

if that happens maybe he'll bump into Connor or Murphy McManus

Just saw this but

WINNING!!

 

[wickedsprint]

Here's an interesting tidbit for those who say the cops had no obligation to intervene:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0

SCOTUS outranks Foxnews.

 

[Skylane81E]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0

SCOTUS outranks Foxnews.

Yup, and from a legal stand point I don't want the cop mandated to step in.

I want to see those that won't removed from the ranks via simple termination instead

 

[wickedsprint]

Deleted

 

[SoloEqs]

Here's an interesting tidbit for those who say the cops had no obligation to intervene:

The US Supreme Court found that cops have no duty to individuals in South v. Maryland (1855) and consistently since then, even when the cops' inaction resulted in death, which is why it is reprehensible for the government to restrict the means of self-defense.

 

[No Joy]

I don't want the cop mandated to step in.

I want to see those that won't removed from the ranks via simple termination instead

Depends on the circumstance.

If there are reasonable reasons for an officer not to engage, then that's fine.

If there is an egregious crime and or a threat to the public; I feel in most cases that police officers should be obligated to engage and held liable and otherwise accountable if they don't do their duty.

The public is frustrated because so many cops are lazy, incompetent, derelict, and/or cowardly and refuse to do their duty. In many cases I feel they should be prosecuted, held liable and barred from public service. They are derelict in their duty and they are defrauding taxpayers.

It's sick that corrupt and mentally ill cops hide behind the bad Supreme Court rulings and "blue wall of silence" and that their comrades defend them. I think it's a crime that crooked cops are allowed to re-sign, and take up another job in law enforcement to repeat their crimes. Part of the reason that law enforcement is so corrupt and has such a bad reputation, is they don't take proper action against cops that are criminal and/or mentally ill. Law enforcement needs to trim the pork, by getting rid of the deadbeats.

 

[No Joy]

SCOTUS outranks Foxnews.

Is Fox news pressing charges or prosecuting? People that hate Fox news, are envious of their relative superior honesty and intelligence.

The Supreme Court often isn't right. It sometimes makes horrible decisions.
Dred Scott v. Sandford

 

[Captain]

Is Fox news pressing charges or prosecuting? People that hate Fox news, are envious of their relative superior honesty and intelligence.

The Supreme Court often isn't right. It sometimes makes horrible decisions.
Dred Scott v. Sandford

Single stupidest thing posted on the internet. Gratz.

 

[docmirror]

Is Fox news pressing charges or prosecuting? People that hate Fox news, are envious of their relative superior honesty and intelligence.

The Supreme Court often isn't right. It sometimes makes horrible decisions.
Dred Scott v. Sandford

Worse: Korematsu v. United States. Govt trumps ind right of life and liberty. But, Obamacare is right up there with this.

 

[docmirror]

Single stupidest thing posted on the internet. Gratz.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2013/10/11/cable-news-ratings-for-thursday-october-10-2013/208336/

Lotta people disagree with you. Albeit, opinions aren't conclusive.

 

[Henning]

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2013/10/11/cable-news-ratings-for-thursday-october-10-2013/208336/

Lotta people disagree with you. Albeit, opinions aren't conclusive.

80% of people are stupid, so actually this serves as proof.

 

[Skylane81E]

Depends on the circumstance.

If there are reasonable reasons for an officer not to engage, then that's fine.

If there is an egregious crime and or a threat to the public; I feel in most cases that police officers should be obligated to engage and held liable and otherwise accountable if they don't do their duty.

The public is frustrated because so many cops are lazy, incompetent, derelict, and/or cowardly and refuse to do their duty. In many cases I feel they should be prosecuted, held liable and barred from public service. They are derelict in their duty and they are defrauding taxpayers.

It's sick that corrupt and mentally ill cops hide behind the bad Supreme Court rulings and "blue wall of silence" and that their comrades defend them. I think it's a crime that crooked cops are allowed to re-sign, and take up another job in law enforcement to repeat their crimes. Part of the reason that law enforcement is so corrupt and has such a bad reputation, is they don't take proper action against cops that are criminal and/or mentally ill. Law enforcement needs to trim the pork, by getting rid of the deadbeats.

Trust me I feel it too, I have watched friends try and get into law enforcement to try and do some good, so every crooked cop story ****es me off just that much more as it should be a job opening for one of the many honest young Americans who want to do the job

 

[No Joy]

The US Supreme Court found that cops have no duty to individuals in South v. Maryland (1855) and consistently since then, even when the cops' inaction resulted in death, which is why it is reprehensible for the government to restrict the means of self-defense.

The Supreme Court has made some bad decisions. Unfortunately many cops are criminals, that try to hide their crimes behind Supreme Court rulings.

LEOs and other government officials that unreasonably refuse to do their duty or are derelict; should be fired, brought up on charges, be held liable, and be barred from public service. Unfortunately our current system is way too lenient on government officials. That's why there is so much corruption and dereliction of our government officials. That's why our government officials have so little credibility.

LEOs can be charged when they refuse to do their duty or are otherwise derelict. Unfortunately they are typically treated with kid gloves.

Cleveland police officer indicted for role in fatal shooting July 4
http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/03/cleveland_police_officer_indic_1.html

Patrolman David Mindek, 41, was charged with dereliction of duty -- a second degree misdemeanor -- for failing to help another officer arrest Daniel Joseph Ficker before a fight erupted

Officers found guilty of dereliction of duty
http://sunburynews.com/2012/12/officers-guilty-dereliction-duty/

Two law enforcement officers were found guilty of dereliction of duty Tuesday for leaving a drunk man at Taco Bell before he was killed when he stumbled into traffic while walking along U.S. 36.

 

[wickedsprint]

The Supreme Court has made some bad decisions. Unfortunately many cops are criminals, that try to hide their crimes behind Supreme Court rulings.

LEOs and other government officials that unreasonably refuse to do their duty or are derelict; should be fired, product on charges, be held liable, and be barred from public service. Unfortunately our current system is way too convenient on government officials. That's why there is so much corruption and dereliction of our government officials. That's why our government officials have so little credibility.

LEOs can be charged when they refuse to do their duty or are otherwise derelict. Unfortunately they are typically treated with kid gloves.

Cleveland police officer indicted for role in fatal shooting July 4
http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/03/cleveland_police_officer_indic_1.html

Officers found guilty of dereliction of duty
http://sunburynews.com/2012/12/officers-guilty-dereliction-duty/

Your first example was found not guilty and your second example was overturned on appeal.

http://www.cleveland.com/parma/index.ssf/2012/07/judge_finds_david_mindek_not_g.html

http://wcbe.org/post/court-overturns-former-troopers-convictions

 

[No Joy]

Your first example was found not guilty and your second example was overturned on appeal.

http://www.cleveland.com/parma/index.ssf/2012/07/judge_finds_david_mindek_not_g.html

http://wcbe.org/post/court-overturns-former-troopers-convictions

As I said they are often treated with kid gloves. They know the system well, so they know how to dodge responsibility. They often have the backing of unions and other powerful entities with deep pockets. Cops and politicians have a lot in common with Teflon.

If I understand correctly the second case was only partially overturned. If I understand correctly Derek Beggs conviction still stands.

But the same appeals court ruled differently on Tuesday in the case of former Delaware County Deputy Derek Beggs, in rejecting the appeal of his conviction in the same incident.
http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...ules-for-trooper-fired-in-taco-bell-case.html

My point is whether or not the conviction stands, is that LE has an obligation to do their duty. They can be prosecuted. The Supreme Court ruling is bad and has been misinterpreted/abused by criminal cops. Cops, politicians and other government workers should be held accountable if they defraud the taxpayers.


Part of the reason our country is failing is because we don't do purge derelicts and other criminals from our government.

 

[No Joy]

LE busted motorcycle gang. Good work.

The bikers were clocked at speeds over 100 miles an hour. They were observed driving recklessly. The bikers surrendered peacefully without a chase.

Biker crew busted on Long Island Expressway
http://nypost.com/2013/10/14/biker-crew-busted-on-long-island-expressway/

 

[silver-eagle]

LE busted motorcycle gang. Good work.

The bikers were clocked at speeds over 100 miles an hour. They were observed driving recklessly. The bikers surrendered peacefully without a chase.

Biker crew busted on Long Island Expressway
http://nypost.com/2013/10/14/biker-crew-busted-on-long-island-expressway/

Crap like that will only stop when traffic laws are altered. Canada, on Interstate 10 I believe, has a sign that says driver is subject to arrest and jail for speeds in excess of 25 kph over the posted speed. A $10,000 fine and loss of vehicle is included.
If this were the case here, there would be a whole lot less vehicles on the road.

 

[No Joy]

Crap like that will only stop when traffic laws are altered. Canada, on Interstate 10 I believe, has a sign that says driver is subject to arrest and jail for speeds in excess of 25 kph over the posted speed. A $10,000 fine and loss of vehicle is included.
If this were the case here, there would be a whole lot less vehicles on the road.

I would think being booked and having their bikes impounded is a good start and might deter many.

A Suffolk tow truck was called and the gleaming cycles were piled aboard and impounded.

http://nypost.com/2013/10/14/biker-crew-busted-on-long-island-expressway/

 

[wickedsprint]

As I said they are often treated with kid gloves. They know the system well, so they know how to dodge responsibility. They often have the backing of unions and other powerful entities with deep pockets. Cops and politicians have a lot in common with Teflon.

If I understand correctly the second case was only partially overturned. If I understand correctly Derek Beggs conviction still stands.

But the same appeals court ruled differently on Tuesday in the case of former Delaware County Deputy Derek Beggs, in rejecting the appeal of his conviction in the same incident.
http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...ules-for-trooper-fired-in-taco-bell-case.html

My point is whether or not the conviction stands, is that LE has an obligation to do their duty. They can be prosecuted. The Supreme Court ruling is bad and has been misinterpreted/abused by criminal cops. Cops, politicians and other government workers should be held accountable if they defraud the taxpayers.


Part of the reason our country is failing is because we don't do purge derelicts and other criminals from our government.

You have too much free time.

 

[No Joy]

Another biker law enforcement controversy related to the assault on Alexian Lien & SUV.

A couple of bikers were rightfully pulled over for speeding. The officer apparently let the couple go with just a warning. But not before implying/implicating/alleging Alexian Lien's uncle was one of the officer's bosses, and had ordered a crackdown on motorcycle riders. The police officer was recorded making these implications. So far authorities are denying what the police officer alleged. So it seems either the patrol officer lied, or ranking law enforcement is lying.

Why should we trust our authorities when so many of them lie?

Bikers Vs SUV: The TRUTH comes out?
http://youtu.be/ZHxF7XFv0xk

'You guys are going to get written,' he can be heard telling the bikers. 'After what happened in New York City, this is what they're doing.'

He added: 'The guy who was assaulted - his uncle is one of our bosses on our job. So he sent the word down, that all these bikes are getting stopped, and they're going to get written.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ted-police-boss-ordered-crackdown-bikers.html

Major Patrick Regan, commander of the State Police division that oversees the lower Hudson Valley, said that was not the case.

”There is no person of rank who has that relationship, or ordered such an enforcement action,”

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/artic...eny-crackdown-related-west-side-highway-brawl

The response from Major Patrick Regan seems to suggest that Alexian Lien has a relative or friend in law enforcement. However that friend or relative is not in a position/rank to dictate policy.

So either the beat cop lied for whatever reason; or law enforcement leadership is lying to cover up.

I think LE should be cracking down on motorcycle riders and gangs. Motorcycle riders and gangs should not be above the law. However if Alexian Lien did have a relative that was dictating the policy, it could be a conflict of interest. It should not be or appear to be a witchhunt.

 

[SoloEqs]

The issue was about standing armies and state militias.

So protecting the right to arms for militia purposes solved several issue. It was never really discussed to disarm the neo-American people. The whole conversation was to ensure that they states could have these militias of civilian volunteers.

Uh . . .no.

The militia were "the whole of the American people." Not only those who volunteered.

And the Second Amendment protects the right of the people, not militia, so the right extends to those who are not "American people" (that is, non-citizens), the same as freedom of speech and religion.

 

[Henning]

Uh . . .no.

The militia were "the whole of the American people." Not only those who volunteered.

And the Second Amendment protects the right of the people, not militia, so the right extends to those who are not "American people" (that is, non-citizens), the same as freedom of speech and religion.

Correct, "All but a few select politicians".

 

[Maxmosbey]

People that hate Fox news, are envious of their relative superior honesty and intelligence.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/10/18/foxs-obamacare-victims-arent-victims-at-all/196498

 

[EdFred]

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/10/18/foxs-obamacare-victims-arent-victims-at-all/196498

Media Matters for America is aWeb-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media.

Not exactly an unbiased source.

Might as well ask Steingar about whether meat or vegetables taste better.

 

[No Joy]

The crooked Detective Wojciech Braszczok that obstructed justice by giving false testimony, plans to not take the stand.

Cop in NYC Biker Case Won't Testify at Grand Jury
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/cop-nyc-biker-case-testify-grand-jury-20640836

 

[docmirror]

It doesn't matter, the grand jury is going to bill this guy. With all the media attention if they no-billed this case the top would blow off the city.

 

[No Joy]

Never-Before-Seen Video Shows the Terrifying Moment Angry Bikers Dragged Dad From SUV and Beat Him in Front of His Wife and Child
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...-and-beat-him-in-front-of-his-wife-and-child/

Motorcycle road rage: New video emerges - Eyewitness News Exclusive
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=9296980

 

[ClimbnSink]

The standard is pretty clear from now on in any bike/car interaction the reasonable thing to do is run every last one of them off the road. Rock on bumper baits.

 

[SoloEqs]

I remember this joke about a half-dozen motorcycle toughs who harassed a guy at a diner. He didn't fight back, he just finished and left.

One of the toughs said "He sure wasn't much of a man!"

Looking out the window, the cook said "He's not much of a truck driver, either . . .he just drove his semi over over six motorcycles!"