NVGs in GA?

Threefingeredjack

Threefingeredjack

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Threefingeredjack
A recent hangar flying session wandered into the topic of "Gee wouldn't it be nice if...." To which I brought up how handy it would be to have a pair of NVGs in the cockpit when bumbling around at night. One of the participants contends that you need to have recurrent training to use NVGs. I can find no such requirement in the FARs other than a check out. Anyone out there have further information??
 
No, but An PVS-5's pretty much destroy depth perception, as I discovered to the detriment of the front end of the Hummer I was driving.
 
Current goggles, such as the AN/AVS-6s and 9s are so far ahead of the PVS-5s that they are simply not comparable. My initial training was on PVS-5s, then PVS-7s, and now I'm using AVS-9s. I am edging up on 900 hours of goggle time, but sadly it's as a crew chief, not a rated aviator...so it doesn't help me as far as the FARs are concerned. But boy, being able to use my goggles for night flying would make it rather trivial, even with zero illum.

Anyway...

61.31(k) cover training/experience requirements, which should be no problem for you.

The kicker is going to be meeting the requirements of 91.205(h), which covers aircraft requirements. Not many GA birds with radalts, and the apparent requirement for FAA-approved NVG-compatible lighting (interior and exterior) could be another hurdle.
 
One of my friends worked for an operation that was getting authorization for NVGs. Required recurrent training in them, but it was an outfit contracting to the military.
 
I bet he/she was referring to military requirements. On the USN side, we are supposed to have an "NVG Lab" class once every 2 years. It isn't an absolute requirement, but it is generally followed. In terms of actual flight currency requirements, there are none unless you are talking about low altitude. We have specific currency requirements for NVG strafe and/or NVG low level, but to just go flying above 1000 ft AGL with them on, there are no currency req's. No idea what the FAA says though, if that is what they were talking about. Honestly, unless you are trying to fly formation or do something tactical, I don't see much value from the fixed wing perspective. They aren't magic, and while they do give you the ability to see airplanes from really far away (ie like 30+ miles), they don't turn night into day. There are significant depth perception issues, and depending on the environmentals/illumination, they sometimes don't do much at all. I often just turn them off and put them up, as their restriction of my field of view is so intense.
 
You have NVG currency requirements in 61.57 (f) & (g). Your aircraft must be equipped with NVG compatible lighting as well. Then of course the pilot would have to being willing to purchase a helmet and goggles for about 10 grand.

I see the importance for NVGs in VFR flying over mountainous terrain with marginal weather. Or for trying to find a landing area for engine failure. For the routine flights I don't see much of a benefit. A lot of times when the weather is nice and I'm going from pad to pad or airport, I'll flip them up. I actually enjoy unaided more. For EMS scene stuff, I'm required to have them down. Makes sense.
 
I flew with -5's in the Army, Nap of the Earth as a crew chief. Tree top level at 40 kias max. Fun fun.

Our internal and external lighting are not designed for NVG use. Landing in a big wide open field at night with low contrast in an emergency...one had better practice that one a bunch to get it right with NVG's. They added a lot of stress to flying. Using them to assist us in finding a nice field and avoiding a big hill would be nice though, even with my synthetic vision. I don't fly at night enough to make them worthwhile.
 
35 AoA said:
I bet he/she was referring to military requirements. On the USN side, we are supposed to have an "NVG Lab" class once every 2 years. It isn't an absolute requirement, but it is generally followed. In terms of actual flight currency requirements, there are none unless you are talking about low altitude. We have specific currency requirements for NVG strafe and/or NVG low level, but to just go flying above 1000 ft AGL with them on, there are no currency req's. No idea what the FAA says though, if that is what they were talking about. Honestly, unless you are trying to fly formation or do something tactical, I don't see much value from the fixed wing perspective. They aren't magic, and while they do give you the ability to see airplanes from really far away (ie like 30+ miles), they don't turn night into day. There are significant depth perception issues, and depending on the environmentals/illumination, they sometimes don't do much at all. I often just turn them off and put them up, as their restriction of my field of view is so intense.
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You may be right. We had a qual that was included in our regular proficiency checks but it wasn't much more than practicing transition to/from and a review of "uh-ohs" to watch out for, and environmental limitations. We used them operationally only on occasion, in conjunction with our FLIR for searches and ops in dark areas for situational awareness. Most of our "customers" had every freaking light they owned turned on. I just couldn't find any recurrent requirement n the FARs. I have heard of some air ambulance units using them.
 
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For the type of flying most of us do, NVGs are pretty useless. Unless you plan on landing at unlit fields or do low level flying at night there's not much reason to have them. If you're concerned about animals or other obstructions on the runway you would do much better to simply get a night scope. Use it to take a peak while you're in the pattern or lined up for departure and then put it away. Much cheaper and easier to deal with.
 
Threefingeredjack said:
You may be right. We had a qual that was included in our regular proficiency checks but it wasn't much more than practicing transition to/from and a review of "uh-ohs" to watch out for, and environmental limitations. We used them operationally only on occasion, in conjunction with our FLIR for searches and ops in dark areas for situational awareness. Most of our "customers" had every freaking light they owned turned on. I just couldn't find any recurrent requirement n the FARs. I have heard of some air ambulance units using them.
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Yeah, I'm guessing the helo community probably has more restrictive currency requirements as well, just due to the way they use them (LL landings, low level stuff, etc)

And for reference to the OP, in the fixed wing world, we are prohibited from wearing them for takeoff or landing, barring some sort of an emergency scenario where they would be needed, as in maybe some sort of emergency landing to an unlit field or something.
 
Also, not sure if there is a basis for it but i've heard in the past that many AME's would like to know if you plan on using them. I'm sure this has to do with field of vision and depth perception arguments mentioned before. I would certainly talk it over with them and not do anything without good training on flying with such a contraption on and how it affects my vision, perception, and CRM.
 
I'd agree. Nobody should just jump into flying with goggles without some good professional training on their usage, associated hazards, etc etc. For those that haven't flown with them, it isn't just like strapping on some magic night vision glasses and being able to see everything. Picture looking through 2 straws that are close enough to your face that it is hard to see much of anything else. Except that you have to, because you can't see anything in your cockpit through them (aside from the HUD which has to be turned up enough to see that it washes out your unaided peripheral vision on a dark night), and you also need to look around them to have any depth perception at all. And what you see through the two straws is a 40 deg field of view in the form of a green, low resolution 2D world. I think there are some better systems out there, but the ones we use are as described above.
 
MachFly said:
I was just doing some research and found this "quadeye" thing. http://www.elbitsystems-us.com/airb...et-mounted-systems/helicopter-helmets/quadeye
Any idea if that gives you depth perception or peripheral vision?
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Yeah that's the future of NVGs. Still no great depth perception (although better) but it allows about 100 degree horizontal FOV. They also incorporate a camera and you don't have to mount an external HUD. Problem is they're heavier and cost between 40-60 grand compared to the AN/AVS-9 at 10 grand. I know for HEMS, price was a big factor for us in upgrading to using goggles. Although 4 tubes would yield a safety benefit, I can't see many HEMS operators upgrading anytime soon. With military cutbacks, not sure how many units will upgrade as well. It'll probably remain a special ops tool.
 
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Once you've met the initial NVG qualification per 61.31(k), the FAA still has recent experience for NVG operations for noncommercial flyers. See 61.57(f/g).

(f) Night vision goggle operating experience.


  • (1) A person may act as pilot in command in a night vision goggle operation with passengers on board only if, within 2 calendar months preceding the month of the flight, that person performs and logs the following tasks as the sole manipulator of the controls on a flight during a night vision goggle operation--

    • (i) Three takeoffs and three landings, with each takeoff and landing including a climbout, cruise, descent, and approach phase of flight (only required if the pilot wants to use night vision goggles during the takeoff and landing phases of the flight).
      (ii) Three hovering tasks (only required if the pilot wants to use night vision goggles when operating helicopters or powered-lifts during the hovering phase of flight).
      (iii) Three area departure and area arrival tasks.
      (iv) Three tasks of transitioning from aided night flight (aided night flight means that the pilot uses night vision goggles to maintain visual surface reference) to unaided night flight (unaided night flight means that the pilot does not use night vision goggles) and back to aided night flight. (v) Three night vision goggle operations, or when operating helicopters or powered-lifts, six night vision goggle operations.
    (2) A person may act as pilot in command using night vision goggles only if, within the 4 calendar months preceding the month of the flight, that person performs and logs the tasks listed in paragraph (f)(1)(i) through (v) of this section as the sole manipulator of the controls during a night vision goggle operation.
(g) Night vision goggle proficiency check. A person must either meet the night vision goggle experience requirements of paragraphs (f)(1) or (f)(2) of this section or pass a night vision goggle proficiency check to act as pilot in command using night vision goggles. The proficiency check must be performed in the category of aircraft that is appropriate to the night vision goggleoperation for which the person is seeking the night vision goggle privilege or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of that category of aircraft. The check must consist of the tasks listed in Sec. 61.31(k), and the check must be performed by:

  • (1) An Examiner who is qualified to perform night vision goggle operations in that same aircraft category and class;
    (2) A person who is authorized by the U.S. Armed Forces to perform night vision goggle proficiency checks, provided the person being administered the check is also a member of the U.S. Armed Forces;
    (3) A company check pilot who is authorized to perform night vision goggle proficiency checks under parts 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter, provided that both the check pilot and the pilot being tested are employees of that operator;
    (4) An authorized flight instructor who is qualified to perform night vision goggle operations in that same aircraft category and class;
    (5) A person who is qualified as pilot in command for night vision goggle operations in accordance with paragraph (f) of this section; or (6) A person approved by the FAA to perform night vision goggle proficiency checks.
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