NOTAM Kabul

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Palmpilot said:
I just hope they keep their promise to be a "kinder, gentler" Taliban. I'm not holding my breath, but I'll take a wait-and-see attitude.
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That's hilarious. Because, you know, they've always kept their word.
steingar said:
I doubt the Talibs have the ability to use any of that unless it is really so stone simple that you needn't any training. They can drive the Humvee's, certainly. I about they're going to reverse engineer any of it, since they've pretty much killed or chased into hiding anyone with the wherewithal to do so. I suppose they could give the stuff to China, though I bet the Chinese already have the technology. My guess is all that stuff is going to slowly or quickly rot. The Talibs might build a museum for it.
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I think one of the mistakes we (Americans in general) keep making is to assume that everyone not in the US or Europe is an idiot. I've seen people make the same mistake underestimating the Chinese for a couple of decades now, and it's cost us all dearly. Just like the Chinese have produced some pretty abysmally horrible products, Middle Eastern extremist groups have produced some incredibly stupid people. That really can't be counted on to be the norm, though, and it's not going to hold up over the long term. Look at where Chinese manufacturing is now compared to ten or twenty years ago. Or even five. There are members of the Taliban who are well educated and technically competent, and they have a large group of very highly motivated students willing to learn how to use all of the toys the evil non-believers left behind. Sure, you're likely not going to see a Talib Air Force with squadrons of Backhawks and such, but thinking they won't know or learn how to operate and maintain a lot of the equipment they have... well, I believe that would be a very bad mistake.
 
Afghanistan is a landlocked county so it's a bit harder to smuggle out the big stuff, but all of this has a dollar value sold to the right group, and the Taliban will be needing hard currency more than weapons.
 
David Megginson said:
Afghanistan is a landlocked county so it's a bit harder to smuggle out the big stuff, but all of this has a dollar value sold to the right group, and the Taliban will be needing hard currency more than weapons.
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They share a border with Iran, so I'm not sure that smuggling would be required.
 
steingar said:
I was mostly speaking about equipment. I hope we can still get our people out. The Talibs seem to be in a cooperative mood, so perhaps there's hope yet.
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The fact that we are relying on what is basically a terrorist regime's cooperation to get our own citizens out is the most damning part of this FUBARed operation.

We're slipping but we still have the most powerful military on earth and certainly could have left in a much less chaotic manner. The last month has been a display of incompetence that makes the screw ups that led to Pearl Harbor being a surprise to so many look like small potatos. Heads should roll but they probably won't and so far the only guy fired was the one asking why there's been no accountability.
 
The Taliban had a bigger, more capable AF in the 90s and no one was worried then. All the hardware they've inherited isn’t exactly in high demand by Russia or China either. They both have comparable equipment. It’s embarrassing that they now have it but from a security threat, it won’t keep me up at night.
 
Palmpilot said:
Hopefully, they will remember what happened when they harbored people who launched an attack on U.S. soil.
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I cannot imagine that lesson lost on them. Last time they allowed attacks to proceed from their country they got chased out and were out of power and on the run for two decades.
 
Palmpilot said:
Hopefully, they will remember what happened when they harbored people who launched an attack on U.S. soil.
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steingar said:
I cannot imagine that lesson lost on them. Last time they allowed attacks to proceed from their country they got chased out and were out of power and on the run for two decades.
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I disagree. That was a generation ago. Since when does anybody learn anything from history? I think it’s far more likely they’ll want to seek revenge for “The Great Satan’s unjust occupation”, especially now that the U.S. is showing incredible weakness, our leadership in complete disarray. I’ll very surprised if we don’t see another major attack on our soil or multiple small ones. No doubt there were Taliban plants among the refugees, not to mention an insecure southern border.
 
To be fair, if someone parked themselves in your country and killed your friends and family by way of collateral damage for 20 years you probably wouldn’t like them either.

Hate to break it to ya, but as soon as ‘murica got into the war for profit business we quit being the good guys. That unpatriotic commie Dwight Eisenhower warned us about this back in the 50s.
 
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steingar said:
The guys in charge now were in charge then. They aren't stupid.
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They're probably also feeling their oats about now. It wouldn't shock me at all if they think they could get away with something given the current state of affairs. This might be another Neville Chamberlain "peace in our time" moment.
 
Now that the evil Western imperialists are gone, the Taliban can get back to what they were doing before this all started -- building their country into a peaceful utopia based on equity, diversity, inclusivity, education, the arts, [insert other woke buzzwords of your choice here], with no interest in causing trouble anywhere else.

Oh, wait ...
 
Timbeck2 said:
Saw that they left around 20 or so service dogs too. But no worries, they’re being taken care of by the Afghannie humane society:nonod:
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Reconsider your sources. What do you call a person that repeats lies? A liar or moron? Is it worse to not know they are lies or to know it and not care.
 
Robert Gee said:
Reconsider your sources. What do you call a person that repeats lies? A liar or moron? Is it worse to not know they are lies or to know it and not care.
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I don't know exactly what you meant by that comment. Are my "sources" wrong? Do you have information to the contrary? Are you calling me a liar or a moron? Are you insinuating that I knew that the information I got in that news story is a lie and I posted it here anyway?

I don't have inside information as I get mine from the same outlets as everyone else. I would hope that it is incorrect but I can't know for sure. If you know something different, please share it with the class.
 
DavidWhite said:
To be fair, if someone parked themselves in your country and killed your friends and family by way of collateral damage for 20 years you probably wouldn’t like them either.
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Also made a crap-ton of them rich beyond their wildest dreams.... Suspect they will not enjoy going back to living in a 1600's world.
 
Robert Gee said:
Reconsider your sources. What do you call a person that repeats lies? A liar or moron? Is it worse to not know they are lies or to know it and not care.
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The Washington Post reports about 50 service animals were left behind, and it quotes three or four people who should be in a position to know. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/09/01/dogs-kabul-airport/

The article stresses that the military did not leave any of their dogs behind. These dogs were left behind by military contractors. A distinction that I doubt matters much to the dogs.
 
Pugs said:
Also made a crap-ton of them rich beyond their wildest dreams.... Suspect they will not enjoy going back to living in a 1600's world.
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No masking requirements and all the god and guns you can handle….sounds like a haven to me for certain types of ‘muricans with a persecution complex.
 
Just a quick reminder that some of the people here on the forum served or have family/friends who served in Afghanistan, so this isn't be just an abstract topic for them, and we should all be mindful and respectful in how we express ourselves.

I personally opposed the invasion of Afghanistan before it happened (one could see it coming in the gradual build-up in the press and public discourse in the late 1990s, well before 9/11), but that doesn't make me any less proud of my family and friends who served there with the Canadian Armed Forces — they were just doing what the governments we elected asked them to, and no one can ask more than that.
 
Was I vague enough for it to not be a personal attack? See, I'm trying, oh Lord https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...haotic-afghanistan-withdrawal-misinformation/
Timbeck2 said:
I don't know exactly what you meant by that comment. Are my "sources" wrong? Do you have information to the contrary? Are you calling me a liar or a moron? Are you insinuating that I knew that the information I got in that news story is a lie and I posted it here anyway?

I don't have inside information as I get mine from the same outlets as everyone else. I would hope that it is incorrect but I can't know for sure. If you know something different, please share it with the class.
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https://www.google.com/search?q=dog...le&ie=UTF-8#scso=_r6YvYYq7FZ6CwbkP-Ya78AM94:0
So unsure is worthy to flippantly repeat? For what end...?
Is that enough to rebutt the tweets and facebook posts? Would you bother? That's how the lies circle the world before the truth can get it's shoes on.
Not to mention the insulting insinuation that a pro dog handler would abandon their working partners. There's even a US citizen lady that refuses to leave until her staff and rescue dogs are accommodated.
 
GaryM said:
The Washington Post reports about 50 service animals were left behind, and it quotes three or four people who should be in a position to know. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/09/01/dogs-kabul-airport/

The article stresses that the military did not leave any of their dogs behind. These dogs were left behind by military contractors. A distinction that I doubt matters much to the dogs.
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I don't understand why this is a concern. Do the Taliban hate dogs or something?
 
Chip Sylverne said:
A large segment of the Muslim population believe dogs are unclean and impure.
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... just like anyone not Muslim. Watch "Saudi Arabia Uncovered" on Netflix. I will say that in my two deployments to Saudi Arabia, I worked with some of the smelliest Saudis I've ever had the pleasure. Although they were undependable, lazy and tended to put ATC in the hands of Allah on occasion, they were very nice and respectful to us, but I don't ever want to go back.
 
Kansas Flyer said:
They're probably also feeling their oats about now. It wouldn't shock me at all if they think they could get away with something given the current state of affairs. This might be another Neville Chamberlain "peace in our time" moment.
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I really really doubt it. They originally gambled that we wouldn't do anything. They lost big time.


David Megginson said:
Just a quick reminder that some of the people here on the forum served or have family/friends who served in Afghanistan, so this isn't be just an abstract topic for them, and we should all be mindful and respectful in how we express ourselves.

I personally opposed the invasion of Afghanistan before it happened (one could see it coming in the gradual build-up in the press and public discourse in the late 1990s, well before 9/11), but that doesn't make me any less proud of my family and friends who served there with the Canadian Armed Forces — they were just doing what the governments we elected asked them to, and no one can ask more than that.
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The folly of the mission in no way detracts from the heroism of those who carried it out.
 
Robert Gee said:
Reconsider your sources. What do you call a person that repeats lies? A liar or moron? Is it worse to not know they are lies or to know it and not care.
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Robert Gee said:
Was I vague enough for it to not be a personal attack? See, I'm trying, oh Lord https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...haotic-afghanistan-withdrawal-misinformation/

https://www.google.com/search?q=dog...le&ie=UTF-8#scso=_r6YvYYq7FZ6CwbkP-Ya78AM94:0
So unsure is worthy to flippantly repeat? For what end...?
Is that enough to rebutt the tweets and facebook posts? Would you bother? That's how the lies circle the world before the truth can get it's shoes on.
Not to mention the insulting insinuation that a pro dog handler would abandon their working partners. There's even a US citizen lady that refuses to leave until her staff and rescue dogs are accommodated.
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FWIW, I saw some of the same reports that @Timbeck2 alluded to in his initial post. I also saw the updates and clarifications from the same sources, which agree with your post. A nicer response might be indicating someone is repeating old news which has been corrected and/or clarified. No need to suggest anyone is a liar or moron unless they persist in repeating the bad information.
 
steingar said:
The guys in charge now were in charge then. They aren't stupid.
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steingar said:
I really really doubt it. They originally gambled that we wouldn't do anything. They lost big time.
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Yes they did and no they’re not stupid. They underestimated Dubya and the will of the American people to get behind a (some say warmonger) leader who would retaliate. And they can see that today the “leader” of the American people is cognitively challenged, did not retaliate effectively to the suicide bomb at the airport, turned tail and ran leaving citizens behind he had promised to get out, and even turns his back on reporters, unable to answer unscripted questions. He openly admits he’s not the one making decisions about how to handle reporters “They told me not to answer questions,” it’s not a leap to conclude he’s not in charge. And if he’s not, then who is? No face for the American people to get behind to lead them back to war. So, I think they’ll gamble again thinking the odds are much more favorable now.

I mean if Dubya looked like a weak wuss, Biden looks about a hundred times weaker. I think they’ll chance it.

The folly of the mission in no way detracts from the heroism of those who carried it out.
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Agree completely!
 
Last one IBTL?? There should be a way to wager on who will be....
 
Deelee said:
Last one IBTL?? There should be a way to wager on who will be....
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Well, we could take a page out of the purple board playbook and just say……


Last!
 
shall
 
DavidWhite said:
To be fair, if someone parked themselves in your country and killed your friends and family by way of collateral damage for 20 years you probably wouldn’t like them either.
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Even back then, I marveled at the arrogance of those who somehow thought we could yield a great result, when the Soviets could not, despite serious and determined efforts with well-trained and equipped forces.

DavidWhite said:
Hate to break it to ya, but as soon as ‘murica got into the war for profit business we quit being the good guys.
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"War for profit"?

That unpatriotic commie Dwight Eisenhower warned us about this back in the 50s.
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That, he did.
 
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