Not my pic. No news story. Not sharing particulars but it looks like lessons might be learned

I have yet to see anyone provide a clear explanation why would I benefit from flying a taildragger if I don’t plan to do crazy **** like landing on a mountain etc … it won’t make me a better pilot , just better at controlling naturally-unstable contraptions … I can get the same benefit by simply avoiding them.
Flying different airplanes with different characteristics *can* make you a better pilot, but it takes more than sitting in them and watching things happen.

Nauga,
a mile wide and an inch deep
 
No. Because jet engines would blow up runways if they were pointed at the ground. There's more than one dimension to airplane design.
That’s just the final nail in the coffin but not the cause of death.
 
Not for … say a Space Shuttle :)
So all gliders should be cranked deltas?

There is no 'one size fits all' in airplane design. To continue @Matthew Rogers' extrapolation, when the last time you saw an F-16 or 737 takeoff or land on a grass strip?

Nauga,
who has (intentionally) taxied a jet on grass
 
You should try to understand posts you reply to and then reply.
Read my response and try to correlate my maintenance related reference to what I was responding to.

As far as using rudder , of course I do use it. The particular plane I am flying is designed to almost completely neutralize effects of adverse yaw at normal flying speeds so I generally only end up using rudder when slipping or in slow flight ( or on the ground ) - I use it when I need to use it and my definition of a well engineered plane is one that does not force me to compensate for something that the plane itself can auto-compensate for.

A competent pilot doesn't "maintain" rudder input. Rudder is a constantly proactive flight control.

"Of course I do use it" ?? Really? You use it only when you THINK you need it, otherwise you just sit there and let the plane do its thing? The next time you go fly, put your feet flat on the floor and do some steep turns, especially at the entrance to the turn, look at the turn coordinator, I guarantee that the ball is NOT centered. Roll into that turn aggressively and see what happens, sure it won't be as bad as a 1930's biplane, but it will be out of coordination.

Your attitude is shocking to me. You refuse to fly an airplane properly under the ******** statement that you fly a "well engineered" airplane. It is not "automatically compensating", unless it has the yoke somehow connected to the rudder. ANY airplane needs rudder input to counteract the increase in drag due to the aileron use.

There was a video posted on this forum not too far back, stating that rudder is what makes a plane turn.
 
I'd wager to say that the reason for most modern planes to have training wheels, is for visibility, not for ground handling. A tailwheel is only less stable than a trike on the ground, in the air a 180 and a 182, of the same vintage, are the same. Except that the 182 has more drag from the nose wheel, and doesn't look as good on the ground! HA!
 
A competent pilot doesn't "maintain" rudder input. Rudder is a constantly proactive flight control.

"Of course I do use it" ?? Really? You use it only when you THINK you need it, otherwise you just sit there and let the plane do its thing? The next time you go fly, put your feet flat on the floor and do some steep turns, especially at the entrance to the turn, look at the turn coordinator, I guarantee that the ball is NOT centered. Roll into that turn aggressively and see what happens, sure it won't be as bad as a 1930's biplane, but it will be out of coordination.

Your attitude is shocking to me. You refuse to fly an airplane properly under the ******** statement that you fly a "well engineered" airplane. It is not "automatically compensating", unless it has the yoke somehow connected to the rudder. ANY airplane needs rudder input to counteract the increase in drag due to the aileron use.

There was a video posted on this forum not too far back, stating that rudder is what makes a plane turn.
You don’t know **** about me and how I use my plane so , with all due respect, get lost …
 
There aren't any tailwheel 737s. They don't make them, even if they are flown by pilots with 30,000 hours, because nosewheel planes are safer. The airforce didn't make a tailwheel F16 even though it was only flown by actual fighter pilots. Why? Because it is safer to make them all nosewheel planes.
If you really dug into it you would probably find that the safety rational (which was not the only rationale) for going to tricycle gear was the increased cost of training for an equivalent level of safety for tailwheels. That might sound the same as 'because it is safer' but it is not.

Nauga,
dollar for dollar
 
Regardless, the NXCub has better takeoff and landing performance, demonstrated. And you assumption that is has worse speed performance is speculative, vs. a manufacturer's published data.
Which engine is represented in the tailwheel numbers? The nosewheel version is 50 lb heavier than the taildragger with the same motor, and almost 80lb heavier than the small-motor taildragger. I tend to be suspicious of advertised performance (including my own airplane) but adding a nosewheel in and of itself is not likely to cause performance, especially cruise performance, to improve. The smart consumer would be asking what else changed.

Nauga,
dragged
 
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CubCrafters would beg to differ. They list no listed difference in weight, drag, top speed, or stall speed between their XCub and the NXCub (nosewheel). One important difference is that their nosewheel version both takes off and lands in a shorter difference than their tailwheel version. So the Nosewheel plane is better in all aspects other than if you need to use an extremely long prop in an area where the extra ground clearance is a factor. And they already took that into account, seeing how the NXCub can go nearly everywhere the XCub can go.
Watch out. Just because they list no difference in empty weight between the taildragger and nosedragger doesn't mean it's not there. In fact, their website lists the empty weight at 1084 pounds, yet the pirep done by AOPA shows an EW of 1212 pounds, and Wikipedia shows it as 1216 pounds. Furthermore, the xCub (taildragger) has an IO-360, while the nxCub (trike) has an IO-393. I think that might change the performance more than a bit.

Without seeing W&B documents for both airplanes, with identical equipment otherwise, you cannot say the nxCub no heavier. Logic alone, to anyone who has worked on airplanes, tells you that the nosegear assembly will weigh quite a bit more than the tailwheel assembly.

As far as a 172 just being a 170 with a nosewheel, that's not quite true. The original 170 had a fabric-covered, rectangular wing similar to a Cub's or Champ's. Small flaps.

upload_2021-12-15_19-48-41.jpeg

The 170A and B had the semi-tapered wing and the fowler flaps more like a 172:

upload_2021-12-15_19-47-49.jpeg
 
If you really dug into it you would probably find that the safety rational (which was not the only rationale) for going to tricycle gear was the increased cost of training for an equivalent level of safety for tailwheels. That might sound the same as 'because it is safer' but it is not.
When we had too many students start one fall, we had to put some of them into the Citabrias for their ab initio training. The rest went into the 172s. It took no longer for the Citabria students to solo than it did the 172 students. This seems odd, but the thing is that when the taildragger is the first thing you fly, you learn it quickly. Primacy. But when those 172 students went to get the taildragger checkout, it took them several hours to master it, sometimes 8 or 10. They had to overcome the laziness their feet had developed in the 172s. Again, Primacy, which says that the things first learned are the most unshakeable.

Back in the '40s and '50s, most learned in Cubs or Champs. They didn't break a lot of airplanes.
 
When we had too many students start one fall, we had to put some of them into the Citabrias for their ab initio training. The rest went into the 172s. It took no longer for the Citabria students to solo than it did the 172 students. This seems odd, but the thing is that when the taildragger is the first thing you fly, you learn it quickly. Primacy. But when those 172 students went to get the taildragger checkout, it took them several hours to master it, sometimes 8 or 10. They had to overcome the laziness their feet had developed in the 172s. Again, Primacy, which says that the things first learned are the most unshakeable.
I think basic handling qualities has as much to do with this as primacy. By way of (another) example, I was comfortable landing the first taildragger I landed after only a few hours (post-ASEL) but landing a certain high performance trike trainer took much longer. Conversely, a basic checkout in a fixed-gear recip trike rarely takes more than a day, while it took a *lot* longer to be comfortable landing a little aerobatic biplane taildragger - and 'comfortable' sometimes in question. I don't contend that one configuration is easier or safer than another, it's highly dependent on the specific airplanes, and in some cases even the loadout.

Nauga,
a student of Cooper and Harper
 
..

I have yet to see anyone provide a clear explanation why would I benefit from flying a taildragger if I don’t plan to do crazy **** like landing on a mountain etc … it won’t make me a better pilot , just better at controlling naturally-unstable contraptions … I can get the same benefit by simply avoiding them.
This is getting circular. I can avoid unicycles also. This has no bearing upon whether choosing to ride one is satisfying or worthwhile. I can avoid learning to ski by riding a snowboard. I can avoid falling down by walking instead of roller skating. The manual transmission analogy is appropriate because there is absolutely no benefit to driving one, they require more effort and skill and I can have identical performance by simply avoiding them. Not all reasons for doing things need to be practical. Avoid gliders by flying a plane with a motor. I can avoid pointless internet discussion by putting down my phone. But I do think the valid argument was made that flying a tailwheel will improve one's ability to fly with precision, and that such skills are often of practical importance when landing nose wheel aircraft in strong crosswinds, for example.
 
The manual transmission analogy is appropriate because there is absolutely no benefit to driving one, they require more effort and skill and I can have identical performance by simply avoiding them.
I guess you've never driven in the wilderness or though deep snow. The automatic is severely handicapped if it get stuck. You push on the gas and the torque increases until the wheels start to slip, and then the torque converter takes over and speed up that slipping wheel, either creating ice under the tire or digging the thing in further. It's either all or nothing with that transmission. With the manual, you put it in a higher gear to reduce and control the torque, using both throttle and clutch, so that you can get the thing moving without spinning the wheels. Been there, done that many times. Automatics now often have traction control, cutting fuel to several cylinders to try to prevent wheel spin. More automation to try to save the stupid car.

Best to stay on the pavement and leave the real adventures to those of us who are willing to accept a little risk. Life can get pretty stale when you limit your options so much. It results in a really narrow view of the world.
 
I’ll put money, not much I’m part Dutch, that if we took 5 nosedragger only pilots and 5 TW pilots all with similar hours put them all in a Skyhawk (not at once) and had them land and take off in any given conditions and graded the landings on set criteria let’s say: landing distance, deviation from centerline, smoothness of touchdown, etc… I’ll put my dollar the TW pilots will come out ahead.

I flew Cessna land-o-matic trikes only first 10 years, then got my TW bird… I can see and notice the difference of my own handling of the Skyhawk before and after. I talked to a glider cfi about getting checked out and asked him how many hours it likely would take about… his response was a question: do you fly TW? I said yes, I forget what his estimate was but he said it’s usually significantly less for a typical TW pilot… he said coordinated flight is beyond Uber important in a glider and the TW guys naturally know how to keep the ball centered better…

so yea plenty of solid reasons to learn it. Certainly more susceptibility to screw it up be a trike but there’s even less risk using Microsoft flight simulator than a trike too…
 
I’ll put money, not much I’m part Dutch, that if we took 5 nosedragger only pilots and 5 TW pilots all with similar hours put them all in a Skyhawk (not at once) and had them land and take off in any given conditions and graded the landings on set criteria let’s say: landing distance, deviation from centerline, smoothness of touchdown, etc… I’ll put my dollar the TW pilots will come out ahead.

I flew Cessna land-o-matic trikes only first 10 years, then got my TW bird… I can see and notice the difference of my own handling of the Skyhawk before and after. I talked to a glider cfi about getting checked out and asked him how many hours it likely would take about… his response was a question: do you fly TW? I said yes, I forget what his estimate was but he said it’s usually significantly less for a typical TW pilot… he said coordinated flight is beyond Uber important in a glider and the TW guys naturally know how to keep the ball centered better…

so yea plenty of solid reasons to learn it. Certainly more susceptibility to screw it up be a trike but there’s even less risk using Microsoft flight simulator than a trike too…
I would put my money on the guy with the most recent experience and the worst OCD.
 
I would put my money on the guy with the most recent experience and the worst OCD.
So If you are saying OCD about great landings, maybe...:rolleyes:

Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD) is a common, chronic, and long-lasting disorder in which a person has uncontrollable, reoccurring thoughts (obsessions) and/or behaviors (compulsions) that he or she feels the urge to repeat over and over.
 
I would put my money on the guy with the most recent experience and the worst OCD.

the bet isn’t for an individual but the one group vs the other… would be a fun reason to have to fly some Saturday…. Maybe we should schedule the “showdown” :)
 
Well ... FWIW I don't worry about forgetting the tow bar and having a prop strike that cost $$$$ with my tail dragger plane ... :p
 
While rare ,it is actually possible to find a taildragger that is uglier than a trike version…

Zenith 750 TW

View attachment 102863


Zenith 750 trike.

View attachment 102864

Let's be honest here ... while the Zenith 750 is a great plane for what it is the thing is UGGG-LEEE in any configuration. I wanted to build a 701 years ago but just could not get past how ugly the thing is. My apologies to anyone that owns one ... :yikes:
 
...
I have yet to see anyone provide a clear explanation why would I benefit from flying a taildragger if I don’t plan to do crazy **** like landing on a mountain etc … it won’t make me a better pilot , just better at controlling naturally-unstable contraptions … I can get the same benefit by simply avoiding them.

The reason to fly a tailwheel is simple. It's because it's fun! The reason I wanted to learn to fly was because it was a challenge. I knew I had to try. After that first flight? I knew I had to fly again, because it's fun. Tailwheel? More fun! Fun with "more" in front of it is better than fun without the more in front of it. I think I learned that from Calvin and Hobbes.

Reason to not fly a tailwheel? Because you don't find it interesting. That's fair. I have no desire to skydive, for example, because to me it doesn't sound fun.
 
The reason to fly a tailwheel is simple. It's because it's fun! The reason I wanted to learn to fly was because it was a challenge. I knew I had to try. After that first flight? I knew I had to fly again, because it's fun. Tailwheel? More fun! Fun with "more" in front of it is better than fun without the more in front of it. I think I learned that from Calvin and Hobbes.

This is the best post on this thread!! Fun + challenge = more fun.

Sent from my SM-A515U using Tapatalk
 
I want a plane the TO and lands from a hover, don't care if it a trike or tailwheel....:rolleyes:
 
28480006.jpg
 
While rare ,it is actually possible to find a taildragger that is uglier than a trike version…

Zenith 750 TW

View attachment 102863


Zenith 750 trike.

View attachment 102864

Let's be honest here ... while the Zenith 750 is a great plane for what it is the thing is UGGG-LEEE in any configuration. I wanted to build a 701 years ago but just could not get past how ugly the thing is. My apologies to anyone that owns one ... :yikes:

I think they have a certain ruggedly handsome badass look. I like them. And no I don’t own one.
 
I think they have a certain ruggedly handsome badass look. I like them. And no I don’t own one.

The 701 is often called "the Sky Jeep" by it's owners.

I have to say that I'm really glad they are made. If they were not here the Sonex would be the ugliest plane made. :D
 
I think they have a certain ruggedly handsome badass look. I like them. And no I don’t own one.
Their trike version looks good - just as you put it , it has this badass look ,especially with a nice paint theme.
 
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