North route to cross the Rockies

Got to remember many summer days it will be snowing in the high country.
IFR in a 150 over the Cascades is not smart.
 
Suggesting to someone who, by definition is unfamiliar with the area, to cross the rockies at 3500' following a road is what's not smart.

Please go research the difference between IFR and IMC.
 
ThereByAir said:
Help me out here... You say there is no reason to cross the Cascades at 11k, but then your next 3 sentences talk about no canyons to go through, IF twice in all caps, metal in the trees, at least 4000', etc....

Kinda seems like a lot of good reasons to go at 11k feet where none of that comes into play. Am I wrong?
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I also said, the cascades can be crossed safely thru the passes. US 2 is only 2900' I-90 3100'

If you want to go high go.. But do it VFR and low winds. I've seen days the winds will not allow a crossing at all. our predominate winds are 320 degrees, at 10-11,000 they will be up to 100kt.

I've probably got 100 crossings our more in a 150/170/172/182, Believe me I'd never go high and long in IFR weather, in any thing that is non de-iced.
in the 150/150 discussed here, I'd cross thru Stevens Pass, Wenatchee direct PAE, good radar flight following most all the way, and one hell of a lot safer.
 
ThereByAir said:
Suggesting to someone who, by definition is unfamiliar with the area, to cross the rockies at 3500' following a road is what's not smart.
.
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Granted, who was talking "rockies"
The area around the Rockies starts at 7k', Rock Springs for example is over 7k' it's that way all the way south to Flagstaff.
Wenatchee is only 1200' top of the pass at Stevens is 2900' lots different than the rockies. But the big difference is weather. Stevens pass is only 40 miles from the coast, it is the first rise in terrane where the heavy rain will be dumped.
 
If winds at 10k feet over the mountains are 100kts, you're gonna have one heck of a ride going through the passes at 3500'.

If it's good enough weather for an unfamiliar pilot to fly through the mountains at 3500', it's going to be infinitely safer to do so on IFR routes at or near MEA and/or OROCA's. To suggest a pilot unfamiliar with the area and terrain to go navigate through passes and that they could do so safely at 3500' is just beyond me. It is very difficult to identify mountain passes you are unfamiliar with.

I never suggested she punch through clouds. You confused IFR with IMC. I never said that. So all things being equal, no matter what you're safer crossing the mountains at 11k feet. No reason to go high? Give me a break.
 
ThereByAir said:
Please go research the difference between IFR and IMC.
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I know about being on a flight plan and not.
I also have found from experience that being on a IFR flight plan to cross the Cascades in a 150 is a practical impossibility, on all but a very few days.
Today is a normal weather day. 40 degrees at sea level way below freezing at 1500' clouds are below the passes.
 
ThereByAir said:
If winds at 10k feet over the mountains are 100kts, you're gonna have one heck of a ride going through the passes at 3500'.

If it's good enough weather for an unfamiliar pilot to fly through the mountains at 3500', it's going to be infinitely safer to do so on IFR routes at or near MEA and/or OROCA's. To suggest a pilot unfamiliar with the area and terrain to go navigate through passes and that they could do so safely at 3500' is just beyond me. It is very difficult to identify mountain passes you are unfamiliar with.

I never suggested she punch through clouds. You confused IFR with IMC. I never said that. So all things being equal, no matter what you're safer crossing the mountains at 11k feet. No reason to go high? Give me a break.
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No more argument.. see ya. I've made my point. BTDT a lot of times. learned my lessons the hard way.
 
Tom-D said:
Today is a normal weather day. 40 degrees at sea level way below freezing at 1500' clouds are below the passes.
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Yeah... so not a good day to do it. Pick another day, or buy a turbo FIKI. Don't go through mountain passes you're unfamiliar with in a 150...
 
ThereByAir said:
If winds at 10k feet over the mountains are 100kts, you're gonna have one heck of a ride going through the passes at 3500'.
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Do you understand that Mt.Baker is 10,400' and leaves a wake in the Coriolis winds?
at the mea of V-2 or 120 you are going to cope with that? Glacier peak also.
Some days here Coriolis winds start as low as 8k
 
ThereByAir said:
What in the world does today's weather forecast have to do with what route and altitude she should fly? And how does showing me a weather report with 1.25mi visibility at 4000' make your case for going through the mountains at 3500'?
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It makes my point of pick a nice day, don't try to go IFR.
Try some day in June.
 
What are Coriolis winds?
 
Well known fact,, V2 & V120 are the known as the ice machine. from early Oct, thru end of May, you have a very good chance of encountering ice on those 2 routes. 13000 feet isn't where I want to be in a 150.

Got O2?
 
Tom-D said:
It makes my point of pick a nice day, don't try to go IFR.
Try some day in June.
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Again, please go study what IFR means, and the difference between IFR and IMC.

**Here's a hint... IFR has absolutely NOTHING to do with weather.
 
Lots of folks do not realize the flying the Cascades is not your typical mountain flying.
They rise from sea level to 10,000'. they create their own weather systems.
 
ThereByAir said:
Again, please go study what IFR means, and the difference between IFR and IMC.

**Here's a hint... IFR has absolutely NOTHING to do with weather.
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You don't seem to realize that technically, means nothing. No matter if you are in the clouds or not you will be at 13,000' for radar coverage on either Victor airway. That ain't where you want to be any day over the cascades.
At 4000' Stevens pass is over a mile wide, and less than 5 miles from the time you are in it until you are out of it.
 
When you file a IFR flight plan, you will comply with IFR rules which means you will be at or above MEA, V-2 that's 13,000' V-120 that's 8,000'

90% of the time that's in or above the clouds here. 7 months of the year, that icing territory.

DON'T DO IT.

My Rule.. If I can't see across, I don't go across.
 
ThereByAir said:
On what day can you see across the Rockies at 3500'?
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You keep talking about the rockies.. So I assume you don't know the difference.
When you stop to think. Rock Springs is 7000' You don't make much sense
 
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Some days you can see across some days you can't, If you can't, don't go.
 

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Tom-D said:
You keep talking about the rockies..
When you stop to think. Rock Springs is 7000' You don't make much sense
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I read the title of the thread again a few times to be sure, and it does mention the Rockies. It's the sixth and final word of the thread title, and in context it is asking how to cross them. I relied to the tread with a suggested route that I would take which her plane could handle the elevation of terrain. You suggested (to a pilot presumably unfamiliar with routes to cross them) that she fly through some pass you know about, and that the entire route could be flown safely at 3500'.

So that's why I keep bringing the Rockies up. I thought it was relevant. I hope that helps make more sense.

What doesn't make sense is Rock Springs... What does Rock Springs have to do with anything really?
 
Tom-D said:
Some days you can see across some days you can't, If you can't, don't go.
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I stand corrected... You can see all the way across the rockies there. I'm guessing that's somewhere in Nebraska you're flying over at 3500'... and indeed, I can make out the Space Needle there if I squint real hard.
 
ThereByAir said:
I stand corrected... You can see all the way across the rockies there. I'm guessing that's somewhere in Nebraska you're flying over at 3500'... and indeed, I can make out the Space Needle there if I squint real hard.
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that's the cascades, not the rockies.

But now you are just being silly.

If you ever get to Seattle/The great north west, I'll take you flying and show you the Cascades.
It is my back yard.
 

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Tom-D said:
that's the cascades, not the rockies.
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Shoot... I read Rockies and thought she meant the Rocky Mountain range. I didn't realize she wrote Rockies but what she really meant was the Cascades. I feel like such an idiot for bringing up the Rockies.
 
ThereByAir said:
Shoot... I read Rockies and thought she meant the Rocky Mountain range. I didn't realize she wrote Rockies but what she really meant was the Cascades. I feel like such an idiot for bringing up the Rockies.
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Not a problem,, nice conversation, enjoyed.
 
ThereByAir said:
What doesn't make sense is Rock Springs... What does Rock Springs have to do with anything really?
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Just to be clear,, Rock Springs Wy, to Ogden Ut. is the shortest route across the rockies.

Look at it on Google maps.

we did Casper Wy to Pocatello, wasn't that bad either.
 
If it's north of 25kts over the peaks it can get a little sporty.

Depending on how high over the peaks you can get, unless you're topping them by quite a bit, much like flying around CBs without real radar, you're better off going VFR with eyes on the rocks and be able to maneuver as needed, be sure to be windaware and chose the correct side of the slopes
 
ThereByAir said:
Are you aware you can fly IFR in VFR weather? There's a difference between IFR and IMC.
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I am leaning towards what Tom-D was saying earlier. For a first crossing of the Rocky Mountains in a light airplane like a 150, stay in VMC, and, make the flight under VFR. Much more flexibility for staying over (or at least near) safe terrain and at convenient altitudes, not to mention flexibility to change the course on the spur of a moment for sightseeing.
 
Martin Pauly said:
I am leaning towards what Tom-D was saying earlier. For a first crossing of the Rocky Mountains in a light airplane like a 150, stay in VMC, and, make the flight under VFR. Much more flexibility for staying over (or at least near) safe terrain and at convenient altitudes, not to mention flexibility to change the course on the spur of a moment for sightseeing.
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Or winds, crossing with any wind you’ll for sure notice the difference between the sink on the lee side and the updrafts on the windward side, plus crossing over peaks IMC when it’s close to freezing can majorly increase icing. In a 150 I’d expect not to fly a straight line.

Following KNOWN roads can be great for keeping you on course VFR wise too.
 
We can't really have a meaningful conversation about this if people don't understand the difference between IFR and IMC. Surprised at the lack of that understanding, especially from you Martin. I follow your videos and love your content on YouTube. I would have thought you'd know the difference.

Can someone point me to who suggested this pilot fly over the Rockies in IMC? Please?
 
And to be clear... to lean toward what Tom-D is saying, you're suggesting to a pilot unfamiliar with the terrain to navigate through mountain passes at low altitude as opposed to flying higher known, studied routes with guaranteed obstacle clearance. Unbelievable to me that suggestion is made and supported on this forum, and me suggesting getting some altitude and flying known published routes and altitudes is left out to dry.
 
ThereByAir said:
And to be clear... to lean toward what Tom-D is saying, you're suggesting to a pilot unfamiliar with the terrain to navigate through mountain passes at low altitude as opposed to flying higher known, studied routes with guaranteed obstacle clearance. Unbelievable to me that suggestion is made and supported on this forum, and me suggesting getting some altitude and flying known published routes and altitudes is left out to dry.
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What's really shocking, is that someone agrees with @Tom-D :eek:

Just kiddin Tom!

Seriously though, the OP asked for suggestions. Everyone, including you, is giving theirs.

That's one of the many reasons I like PoA.
Every time I log on I call it my GUMPS check.... cause it's like a box of chocolates!
 
eman1200 said:
He liked it so much he up and left already.
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Shame... as only two people disagreed with him.
And at least one Tom-D disagreement is default so it doesn't count. And if he can't get past 1 person disagreeing with him on PoA, well then.....
 
Why are you arguing about whether or not flying in clouds over the mountains is a good idea? From the sounds of it, this trip is an adventure trip. To me, that indicates she wants to see and experience the country. The inside of a cloud looks the same on the east and west coast.
 
ThereByAir said:
We can't really have a meaningful conversation about this if people don't understand the difference between IFR and IMC. Surprised at the lack of that understanding, especially from you Martin. I follow your videos and love your content on YouTube. I would have thought you'd know the difference.
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I don’t?
Come on, this is getting a bit ridiculous.
 
ThereByAir said:
We can't really have a meaningful conversation about this if people don't understand the difference between IFR and IMC. Surprised at the lack of that understanding, especially from you Martin. I follow your videos and love your content on YouTube. I would have thought you'd know the difference.
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Why would you think he doesn't? His post seems pretty clear to me: Stay in VMC *and* fly it VFR, with reasons given.
 
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