Non tower airport

Juan Vallejo

Juan Vallejo

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Jucava
Hi, wondering what's your take on the following.

When landing at a non tower airport near by, some pilots prefer the longer runway even when the wind is 90° crosswind, booth runways are in good condition. Is it ok to announce I'm going to use the runway that makes sense?

Even when they're a couple planes making radio calls they're going to use the crosswind runway?
 
pretty much what ryan said. communication and flexibility are key.
 
I like practicing x-wind landings when I can, so I’m usually the odd one in the pattern. I’ll extend my downwind or do a high pass down the runway to accommodate planes landing into the wind. If the pattern gets full, I’ll either join the into-the-wind circuit or go somewhere else. I’ll usually state my intention to practice crosswinds on the radio now & then, so arriving pilots know what’s going on.
 
Absolutely. I've seen many cases of the wind having shifted and pilots still slavishly sticking to the same runway, but now landing with strong tailwinds. Just announce what you're going to do and why. On a long runway, it should never be an issue unless someone tries to take off into you landing.
 
That is exactly my concern, taking off on someone landing, thanks everyone for their wisdom.
 
A lot of pilots are just lemmings and go with what everybody else was doing or what they usually do. I can't tell you the number of times I was at the pre-tower FDK and there were three guys in the pattern landing downwind and I said "Hey, guys, why don't we land on 5 since that's the way the wind's blowing." Never got any complaints.
 
Actually, this was pretty common at an airport I used to fly to. Runways 8-26 and 17-35. Landing on 17-35 meant a l-o-n-g taxi, so the crosswind on 8-26 needed to be pretty stiff before locals switched to it. I think 90% of the use of 17-35 was transient traffic.

Sure, use the runway you want and mix properly with existing traffic.
 
I remember one time going into 0W3. They have one paved and a perpendicular grass runway. The winds were blowing straight down the grass runway and there was no opposing traffic, so we just landed there. A couple of guys came up to us and wanted to know if we were there to fly gliders. Nope, why? They said that typically only the glider guys land on the grass.
 
flyingron said:
I remember one time going into 0W3. They have one paved and a perpendicular grass runway. The winds were blowing straight down the grass runway and there was no opposing traffic, so we just landed there. A couple of guys came up to us and wanted to know if we were there to fly gliders. Nope, why? They said that typically only the glider guys land on the grass.
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I have gotten bored landing on paved strips, lately I have been using all the turf strips in my area. Only seen a powered parachute using one at GEZ and no one else.
 
old fields with layouts like HEG are, I think, bad for this. Get's exponentially more difficult with folks using different runways
 
Gee, this sounds familiar....

The airport I fly out of regularly gets panned by the online experts as "a zoo" for exactly this reason. But, I find that its not that difficult to adjust my arrival, interval, and pattern length to safely land on whichever runway suits my needs, without worrying too much about all the 172 strato-bombers using the "duty runway". It just takes a little patience, planning, and a lot of looking outside.
 
wilkersk said:
Gee, this sounds familiar....

The airport I fly out of regularly gets panned by the online experts as "a zoo" for exactly this reason.
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I fly into that particular "Zoo" quite often also. I will choose whichever runway suits my needs at the moment as well. Landing on the shorter one with traffic on the bigger one is a non issue really. You don't have to land or have to do a certain size pattern. Eyes on a swivel and radio work can make it pretty reasonable to land on a different runway.

It seems ones that aren't used to it or are based at a tower field are the ones that have an issue with it. Those ones also seem to clamar for a tower...
 
Uncontrolled mean uncontrolled, just understand there increased mid air collision risks and risk of collision if there is an intersection of the runways.
 
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Hell, there's a collision risk even if there is only one runway. I've seen five guys in the pattern for 23 at FDK and some idiot decide to depart on 5 into the guys on final.
 
One warning about non-towered airports. If anyone on the CTAF mentions “the active,” steer clear. It’s dangerous to share airspace with people who think there is such a thing.
 
The other day winds were light and variable. Probably favored 06. But 09 is longer. It was pretty 50/50. Guy took off of 6 as I was entering downwind for 9. We both heard and saw each other.
 
iamtheari said:
One warning about non-towered airports. If anyone on the CTAF mentions “the active,” steer clear. It’s dangerous to share airspace with people who think there is such a thing.
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That drives me nuts to this day and something my cfi hammered home. They're all active unless there's an "X" on it
 
If all pilots know how to behave and share the airport, uncontrolled fields can be very nice. But when pilots get the whole “I have the right of way” and won’t extend their downwind an extra mile for someone else, uncontrolled fields can be a nightmare.
 
iamtheari said:
One warning about non-towered airports. If anyone on the CTAF mentions “the active,” steer clear. It’s dangerous to share airspace with people who think there is such a thing.
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I agree that "active runway" is nonsensical and its use should be discouraged, but I would not characterize it as dangerous. All it mean is that someone is using a runway. It is better than flying without a radio, or making a call without saying which airport.
 
flyingron said:
Hell, there's a collision risk even if there is only one runway. I've seen five guys in the pattern for 23 at FDK and some idiot decide to depart on 5 into the guys on final.
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Irritating, but easy to spot and steer clear of. What scares the crap out of me are the high-wing low and slow types that will undercut the pattern. You don't even know they're there until you're already way too close. Nothing like slipping to final only to see a Super Cub on a 45 degree "straight-in" pass right underneath you.

iamtheari said:
One warning about non-towered airports. If anyone on the CTAF mentions “the active,” steer clear. It’s dangerous to share airspace with people who think there is such a thing.
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"The active" on CTAF always makes me chuckle. But, "closed traffic" on CTAF always makes me wonder if that pilot is telling me he intends to stay in the pattern, or if he thinks he's currently the only one in the pattern.

When ATC used to tell me I was "closed traffic" I always understood it to mean there was no one else in the pattern with me. To avoid confusion (like when there's someone on the 45 entry) I will say something like, "left crosswind, remaining in the pattern." It's 2 word more. But, makes it abundantly clear what my intentions are.
 
wilkersk said:
But, "closed traffic" on CTAF always makes me wonder if that pilot is telling me he intends to stay in the pattern, or if he thinks he's currently the only one in the pattern.

When ATC used to tell me I was "closed traffic" I always understood it to mean there was no one else in the pattern with me. To avoid confusion (like when there's someone on the 45 entry) I will say something like, "left crosswind, remaining in the pattern." It's 2 word more. But, makes it abundantly clear what my intentions are.
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Um what? Suggest you look into what that actually means.
 
At nearby airport I was approaching the AWOS indicated that runway 06 should be in use. Listening to the CTAF I heard no traffic.

As I got closer I called my 45º pattern entry for 06. Now I hear a voice on he radio say, "We just took off on runway 24!" So I agreed that I would set up for a landing on 24. They came back with, "Nah, you are correct, we'll follow you into 06."

The windsock confirmed the AWOS was correct and the wind was nearly straight down 06 at about 6-8 knots. Not a great deal of wind but in my tailwheel plane I really prefer to take off and land into the wind as much as possible.
 
Many others have said this already. But just land on the runway you want. Also do your best to communicate with any traffic on other runways and 100% make sure you're not interfering with others.
 
wilkersk said:
Irritating, but easy to spot and steer clear of. What scares the crap out of me are the high-wing low and slow types that will undercut the pattern. You don't even know they're there until you're already way too close. Nothing like slipping to final only to see a Super Cub on a 45 degree "straight-in" pass right underneath you.



"The active" on CTAF always makes me chuckle. But, "closed traffic" on CTAF always makes me wonder if that pilot is telling me he intends to stay in the pattern, or if he thinks he's currently the only one in the pattern.

When ATC used to tell me I was "closed traffic" I always understood it to mean there was no one else in the pattern with me. To avoid confusion (like when there's someone on the 45 entry) I will say something like, "left crosswind, remaining in the pattern." It's 2 word more. But, makes it abundantly clear what my intentions are.
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Closed traffic means you want to stay in the pattern (touch and go’s, low approaches, etc) not that you’re the only one in the traffic pattern
 
wilkersk said:
Gee, this sounds familiar....

The airport I fly out of regularly gets panned by the online experts as "a zoo" for exactly this reason. But, I find that its not that difficult to adjust my arrival, interval, and pattern length to safely land on whichever runway suits my needs, without worrying too much about all the 172 strato-bombers using the "duty runway". It just takes a little patience, planning, and a lot of looking outside.
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Gotta be Arlington. KAWO
 
wilkersk said:
try asking tower for “closed traffic” when there’s other aircraft in the pattern.
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What airport are you talking about where the Tower routinely denies closed traffic just because there's another plane bouncing?
 
To find out what "Closed Traffic" means, refer to the Pilot/Controller Glossary.

CLOSED TRAFFIC− Successive operations involving takeoffs and landings or low approaches where
the aircraft does not exit the traffic pattern.​
 
I recon if a tower denies it it's only because of task saturation....something like that
 
Brad W said:
I recon if a tower denies it it's only because of task saturation....something like that
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Sometimes it's to get the pattern rats outta the way for a little while when itinerant traffic is getting excessively delayed.
 
One thing you might want to do is let everyone know your landing is going to be full stop so they don't have to think about where you're going to be if you do a touch and go.
 
that's not exactly being spring loaded for a go-around though....
 
Silvaire said:
One thing you might want to do is let everyone know your landing is going to be full stop so they don't have to think about where you're going to be if you do a touch and go.
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I assume everyone is going to go around. Including me.
 
Timbeck2 said:
And the tower will say something like: "Closed traffic approved, following Cessna one seventy two downwind midfield."
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Or number five, follow the Cessna on the 45 and leave room for one departure and oh by the way, numbers 2 thru 5 are doing the same because there is a line of about 10 departures waiting their turn to take off. Sometimes, it's time to turn off the pattern rats
 
luvflyin said:
Or number five, follow the Cessna on the 45 and leave room for one departure and oh by the way, numbers 2 thru 5 are doing the same because there is a line of about 10 departures waiting their turn to take off. Sometimes, it's time to turn off the pattern rats
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"Leave room for one departure"? If I said that, I'd be an air traffic suggester, not a controller. :)

I have found that relying on pilots to do anything to aid in getting departures out is a lesson in futility. Having said that, I've also found that some pilots pay attention to what is going on and will either land or go back to radar for another approach to get departures out. Those pilots do not fly C-130s. ;)
 
luvflyin said:
I assume everyone is going to go around. Including me.
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I think I have a nearly perfect record of going around after saying “full stop” at nontowered airports. I mostly keep my mouth shut so as not to jinx my landing.
 
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