Non standard phraseology: Does that bug controllers?

bikert

bikert

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bikert
Everytime I hear a controller advise someone of traffic and hear "No joy but I have him on the fish finder" or some such comment, I cringe a little. Or "N123 reset transponder and squawk 1234" and hear the response "Okey dokey, 1234 on the meter, N123". How do controllers react to that? Or is it just annoying to some of us listening to it and not a big deal?
 
bikert said:
Everytime I hear a controller advise someone of traffic and hear "No joy but I have him on the fish finder" or some such comment, I cringe a little. Or "N123 reset transponder and squawk 1234" and hear the response "Okey dokey, 1234 on the meter, N123". How do controllers react to that? Or is it just annoying to some of us listening to it and not a big deal?
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Nonstandard but still understandable phraseology never bothered me.
 
roncachamp said:
Nonstandard but still understandable phraseology never bothered me.
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Asked my ATC brother and he said the same thing. Said he doesn't care how you get something across, as long as he knows what you are talking about. I think pilots make a bigger deal out of non-standard phraseology than ATCs. He did say the one thing that he thinks is stupid(and I agree) is pilots that say "with you." He knows you are with him...otherwise he wouldn't be talking to you.
 
I use "with you" to connect my tail number and the altitude because my number ends in numbers and it's confusing not to have something in between.

"November six six one one thousand five hundred..."
"November six six one with you one thousand five hundred..."

I guess I should use "level" instead, but I'm working on it.
 
19706 said:
I use "with you" to connect my tail number and the altitude because my number ends in numbers and it's confusing not to have something in between.

"November six six one one thousand five hundred..."
"November six six one with you one thousand five hundred..."

I guess I should use "level" instead, but I'm working on it.
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This.
"Level" conveys important information and is even quicker than "with you".
 
My bad habit is the word "for"

ATC: N123AB Waco altimeter 29.93
Me: two niner niner tree for one two tree alfa bravo

Drives my CFI nuts
 
bikert said:
Everytime I hear a controller advise someone of traffic and hear "No joy but I have him on the fish finder" or some such comment, I cringe a little. Or "N123 reset transponder and squawk 1234" and hear the response "Okey dokey, 1234 on the meter, N123". How do controllers react to that? Or is it just annoying to some of us listening to it and not a big deal?
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AIM 4-2-1(b) tells pilots that they can use any phraseology that gets the message across.

Bob Gardner
 
ATC Standard Terminology is listed in FAA Order JO 7110.65 too
 
19706 said:
I use "with you" to connect my tail number and the altitude because my number ends in numbers and it's confusing not to have something in between.

"November six six one one thousand five hundred..."
"November six six one with you one thousand five hundred..."

I guess I should use "level" instead, but I'm working on it.
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That's good thinking to separate the "ones" with something. I never gave pilots saying "with you" a second thought but not saying it seems to be in vogue now. I have quit doing it
 
bikert said:
Everytime I hear a controller advise someone of traffic and hear "No joy but I have him on the fish finder" or some such comment, I cringe a little. Or "N123 reset transponder and squawk 1234" and hear the response "Okey dokey, 1234 on the meter, N123". How do controllers react to that? Or is it just annoying to some of us listening to it and not a big deal?
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I'd roll my eyes a little when a pilot got "corny" trying to sound like the "big boys". A little folksiness has its time and place. Save it for after you've been on the frequency for a few minutes and you have a good feel for how busy it is
 
Much of the phraseology may not be book standard, but it is used by pilots so often it has become the informal standard.

The big thing that makes me cringe is when guys don't use their call sign. I have seen many, many sutuations where flight numbers are the same or similar, so call sign becomes very important. Controllers are generally fairly good and give warnings to the crews, but it still manages to get messed up even when call signs are used.

ETA: I am not a controller
 
might be threadjacking.... is adsb-in a fish finder? or are fish finders on-board radar? and do either matter in VMC?
 
As long as the main message is acknowledged,a little levity can be a good thing.
 
I use nonstandard very often and it's only to provide the needed information in the shortest amount of time. I can get a lot of information across in a few transmissions and controllers really seem to appreciate it.

Think of it this way - a controllers is more likely to run a squeeze play with you and get you in faster if he's confident you know what you're doing and can handle anything he throws at you. This is all perceived through your radio work as a pilot. You can really tell a lot about a controller (mood, work load, attention span, SA, etc.) through the radio if you just pay attention.

They're human beings, too (albeit barely). Talk to them like one when you get stuck what to say.
 
I've always been of the opinion that keeping it short and concise is best. "XYZ center, Cessna 12345 level 5000". It gets the message across with no garbage thrown in.
 
I get using non-standard in general. Heck, I do too. When someone is trying to sound "cool" referring to fish finders and stuff like that, it is verbose as well as non-standard and annoying. Someone saying "with you"? Who cares. I don't know why people get hung up on stuff like that. Whether they say "N123 with you" or "N123 level at 10000" they are taking about the same amount of radio time so get over that already.
 
I also don't care for mumbling and slurring. I hear a lot of regional guys doing that. Noise is coming out but I swear they are not forming words with their lips.
 
My instructor hated the term 'with you' and taught me to say 'checking in'. One time I said 'with you' on tower freq (only ones in the area) and he keyed the mic quick and said 'not sure where you are, but he's with me not you. Controller let out a chuckle on the radio.
This is the same instructor who bugs me when he keys the mic and says 'aaaaannnnnnndddddd tower....'
 
farmerbrake said:
My instructor hated the term 'with you' and taught me to say 'checking in'. One time I said 'with you' on tower freq (only ones in the area) and he keyed the mic quick and said 'not sure where you are, but he's with me not you. Controller let out a chuckle on the radio.
This is the same instructor who bugs me when he keys the mic and says 'aaaaannnnnnndddddd tower....'
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With you means the same exact thing as checking in. I don't know why he would prefer one over the other. They are both useless filler words.
 
jordane93 said:
With you means the same exact thing as checking in. I don't know why he would prefer one over the other. They are both useless filler words.
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I completely agree. Just semantics I guess.
 
farmerbrake said:
My instructor hated the term 'with you' and taught me to say 'checking in'. One time I said 'with you' on tower freq (only ones in the area) and he keyed the mic quick and said 'not sure where you are, but he's with me not you. Controller let out a chuckle on the radio.
This is the same instructor who bugs me when he keys the mic and says 'aaaaannnnnnndddddd tower....'
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An instructor who was that anal about meaningless stuff like that (to the point of trying to dime you out on the radio for fun) would have driven me crazy… there are plenty of things that demand perfect attention to detail in the aviation world, but what you described isn't one of them.
 
Coloradokevin said:
An instructor who was that anal about meaningless stuff like that (to the point of trying to dime you out on the radio for fun) would have driven me crazy… there are plenty of things that demand perfect attention to detail in the aviation world, but what you described isn't one of them.
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The day he did that was at the end of instrument training, he couldn't find anything else to pick on me for so he had to do something.
It probably reads worse than what it is. I enjoyed it.
 
I don't like the phrase "Go missed". It sounds so limp-wristed. Stop it! You "Execute" the missed approach! As in kill it dead! You don't "Go missed" as in going to a party in drag.

dtuuri
 
I follow quite a few ATCs on Twitter and from what I have picked up from them all they ask is to get the message across as quickly and concisely as possible. If it more quite then obviously things can loosen up a bit.

There is a guy with a podcast devoted to this topic and he is quite anal about it. I believe he is a former ATC now commercial pilot. As a low time pilot I have learned a few things but also figured out that he is by the book so if it is not in the AIM it is not to be said to him so take it with a grain of salt. atccommunication.com
 
dtuuri said:
I don't like the phrase "Go missed". It sounds so limp-wristed. Stop it! You "Execute" the missed approach! As in kill it dead! You don't "Go missed" as in going to a party in drag.
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Have you actually heard that as a command given by ATC? I haven't.

I've heard "N12345, go around" followed by vectors and an altitude to climb to if IFR, if VFR it's usually "make right crosswind pilot's discretion, enter right downwind for runway X".

The assumption if you go NORDO right when they said "go around", would be to fly the published missed if IFR, I reckon.

Never heard a controller say "go missed".
 
I heard three "professional" pilots give out a "See ya!!" that sounded like a cat hurling up dinner -- in a 40 minute flight from Denver to Pueblo the other day.

Does that count for dumb non-standard stuff? Seems quite popular with the jet drivers these days.
 
denverpilot said:
I heard three "professional" pilots give out a "See ya!!" that sounded like a cat hurling up dinner -- in a 40 minute flight from Denver to Pueblo the other day.

Does that count for dumb non-standard stuff? Seems quite popular with the jet drivers these days.
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More regional guys.
 
Kritchlow said:
More regional guys.
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They drive jets around here mostly these days. So my statement was accurate.

And I'm guessing the guy with the "Cactus" call sign definitely was... Probably something made by Boeing. ;)

So I wouldn't get too uppity yet... I purposefully left off the guilty party call signs and carefully said exactly what I heard them from.
 
denverpilot said:
I heard three "professional" pilots give out a "See ya!!" that sounded like a cat hurling up dinner -- in a 40 minute flight from Denver to Pueblo the other day.

Does that count for dumb non-standard stuff? Seems quite popular with the jet drivers these days.
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Maybe I'll start saying adios.
 
There was that one controller years ago in Denver who would say "dandy day". I think they named the arrival DANDD after him.
 
This is about what I thought I once heard a controller say. We has just tuned to TWR after the run-up and heard another plane getting sent to DEP, I swear I heard the controller say "peace out". It was sudden and unexpected and entirely possible I misheard him but my CFI and I had a laugh about it.
 
Everskyward said:
There was that one controller years ago in Denver who would say "dandy day". I think they named the arrival DANDD after him.
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They did. :)

And the guy who always said "Good Morning" at the beginning of talking to you and "Good Night" at the end, no matter what time of day it actually was. We always called him "GoodMorningGoodNight" all run together as one word.
 
Seriously... Some of this is corny, but really most of this stuff is so inconsequential I just can't believe people get worked up over it.
Get worked up when someone is told to hold short of 25L, and the response is "roger"... No call sign and no runway.
 
denverpilot said:
Have you actually heard that as a command given by ATC? I haven't.

I've heard "N12345, go around" followed by vectors and an altitude to climb to if IFR, if VFR it's usually "make right crosswind pilot's discretion, enter right downwind for runway X".

The assumption if you go NORDO right when they said "go around", would be to fly the published missed if IFR, I reckon.

Never heard a controller say "go missed".
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To go missed is a pilot decision, a go around is a controller decision. (Under this context)
 
Kritchlow said:
Seriously... Some of this is corny, but really most of this stuff is so inconsequential I just can't believe people get worked up over it.
Get worked up when someone is told to hold short of 25L, and the response is "roger"... No call sign and no runway.
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Runway crossings and intersections and what-not are mandatory replies these days, of course. Been that way for quite a while.

So the controller is going to have to repeat the instruction and get a read-back. I've heard that one go around and around...

"Cessna 345, Taxi to Runway 8 via Alpha, Cross runway 17."
"Roger"
"Cessna 345, I need you to read back with your tail number. Taxi to Runway 8 via Alpha, Cross runway 17."
"Taxi to Runway 8 via Alpha, Cessna 345."
"No, Cessna 345, I need you to read-back all of it, with runway crossings. Cessna 345, Taxi to Runway via Alpha, Cross runway 17."
"Taxi to Runway 8, uhhhh... via Alpha... uhhhhh... cleared to cross Runway 17 on the way there, Cessna 345. Oh, and can we get an intersection departure?"
"Cessna 345, [sigh]... Which intersection would you like to depart from?"

... Etc ...

While we all beat our heads on our glareshields waiting... :)

I did get a minor kick out of those who "protested" the "Line Up and Wait" change by responding with "Position and Hold, Cessna 345." Stupid, but the controllers just ignored them and it stopped happening.
 
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