non pilot taxing airplane

L

Lawson Laslo

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jan 18, 2019
Messages
394
Display Name
Display name:
FAA
i know its been asked many times
but is there anything that specifically states that anyone can taxi a airplane
this is as close to regulation that i can find
"A person taxiing an aircraft that is not intended for flight is not acting as PIC under this rule, and therefore can not only be a private pilot, but the person doesn't have to be a pilot at all.
There is no specific FAR that qualifies someone to taxi an aircraft, but aircraft operators and maintenance shops train and authorize mechanics to taxi and run-up engines."

I know that i can leagly taxi my ercoupe even though i'm not yet a PP but is there anything that actauly states it
 
Why do you need something to state it? What isn't specifically prohibited is okay.

Rules are there to tell us what we can't do, not the other way around IMO.
 
Kansas Flyer said:
Why do you need something to state it? What isn't specifically prohibited is okay.

Rules are there to tell us what we can't do, not the other way around IMO.
Click to expand...
True, just didn't want to have people saying i cant taxi, even though i can but have no proof
 
Consider.....often an A&P will need to move an aircraft and not have a tug. Many have zero flight experience much less any kind of license.
 
Lawson Laslo said:
but is there anything that actauly states it
Click to expand...
FYI: it falls to the local airport management or policies on the who, what, where of aircraft movement on an airport. If the airport serves air carriers then there are other requirements under Part 139 and Title 49. There's a thread on here that discusses this also.
 
If they say you can't taxi it, also ask them to show you the regulation that says you can't wear purple while flying an airplane.
 
Lawson Laslo said:
I know that i can leagly taxi my ercoupe even though i'm not yet a PP but is there anything that actauly states it
Click to expand...

If you can't yet fly it, what is the purpose of this taxiing? Just for fun, engine testing, practice? Got a good reason to be doing it?

I think you should be able to do what ever you want with your plane. But I don't make the rules.
 
As a another example. My office worked a taxi accident years ago caused by a A&P during a MX run-up. Due to other issues in the event they went after his A&P. However, they didn’t touch his Airman Certs due to the fact he wasn’t conducting his taxi operation for the intention of flight.
 
Fiveslide said:
If you can't yet fly it, what is the purpose of this taxiing? Just for fun, engine testing, practice? Got a good reason to be doing it?

I think you should be able to do what ever you want with your plane. But I don't make the rules.
Click to expand...

I would taxi over to fuel up and air up the tires before the CFI showed up, why spend 30 minutes doing this when you are paying $75 an hour?

CFI showed up once when I was coming back and he said he didn’t care and it was legal but if something happened insurance wouldn’t cover it since I didn’t meet the requirements to be covered by the insurance yet. If I hit a hangar, plane, gear collapsed etc while taxing that’s a movement claim and not covered under the non movement liability.

So I decided that I’ll wait for the CFI and pay him for his time just so I was covered under insurance.
 
EdFred said:
If they say you can't taxi it, also ask them to show you the regulation that says you can't wear purple while flying an airplane.
Click to expand...

Just don't try to wear purple in our house. Not allowed. That's one of the colors of the mutts (University of Washington) and there's no way you wear mutt colors in this Cougar house. :D
 
Jamie Kirk said:
I would taxi over to fuel up and air up the tires before the CFI showed up, why spend 30 minutes doing this when you are paying $75 an hour?
Click to expand...
Why would you pay your CFI while you fuel up and add air to the tires???
 
Ryanb said:
Why would you pay your CFI while you fuel and add air to the tires???
Click to expand...

I’ve always been charged from the time they got to the hangar. One even charges me his drive to the hangar.
 
Jamie Kirk said:
I’ve always been charged from the time they got to the hangar. One even charges me his drive to the hangar.
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t pay for that. No way.

I guess if somebody is dumb enough to pay for it, they’ll keep charging for it.

Glad it’s you and not me.
 
Ryanb said:
I wouldn’t pay for that. No way.

I guess if somebody is dumb enough to pay for it, they’ll keep charging for it.
Click to expand...

I also paid them to fly around solo in my airplane for 10 hours so insurance would sign off on dual instruction. No CFI had enough time in type for insurance approval.

But hey, I’m sure you know all the circumstances to make such a comment. So I’m an idiot apparently to you.
 
Jamie Kirk said:
I also paid them to fly around solo in my airplane for 10 hours so insurance would sign off on dual instruction. No CFI had enough time in type for insurance approval.

But hey, I’m sure you know all the circumstances to make such a comment. So I’m an idiot apparently to you.
Click to expand...
I’ve heard some doozy’s, but yours just about takes the cake.

If you enjoy paying for a service when you aren’t getting one, more power to you. I wouldn’t go for that, but I guess all of my instructors have just been honest about things.
 
Ryanb said:
I’ve heard some doozy’s, but yours just about takes the cake.

If you enjoy paying for a service when you aren’t getting one, more power to you.
Click to expand...

Not getting one? I got my ticket in my plane which is not a common plane and complex. Not a single CFI in the state met the requirements, I spent 5 days and called over 300.

Also no one was willing to work with insurance so I could finishing training in my plane due to their requirements.

But like I said, you’re the expert on the situation.
 
Jamie Kirk said:
Not getting one?
Click to expand...
You’re missing my point and I apologize in advance for coming across so bluntly, but I have to call things like I see them.

Look at it like this. Airline pilots don’t get paid while they’re commuting from home to base and vice versa. They also don’t get paid while they’re strolling through airport terminals and sitting in crew lounges. They get paid when they’re AT THE CONTROLS, so why should a CFI be held to a different standard?

My point in paying for a service when you’re not getting one is essentially paying for the CFI, when he/she isn’t providing any value to you. Traveling to and from the hangar? That’s absurd. Most folks don’t get paid until they run their time card at the office, because you know why? They’re not providing any value to the organization while they’re fooling around in their car to and from home. The solo time you paid dual for is a bit crazy to, but I won’t get into that.

Again. It’s not my ball game.
 
Ryanb said:
You’re missing my point and I apologize in advance for coming across so bluntly, but I have to call things like I see them.

Look at it like this. Airline pilots don’t get paid while they’re commuting from home to base and vice versa. They also don’t get paid while they’re strolling through airport terminals and sitting in crew lounges. They get paid when they’re AT THE CONTROLS, so why should a CFI be held to a different standard?

My point in paying for a service when you’re not getting one is essentially paying for the CFI, when he/she isn’t providing any value to you. Traveling to and from the hangar? That’s absurd. The solo time you paid dual for is a bit crazy to, but I won’t get into that.

Again. It’s not my ball game.
Click to expand...

I don’t think you understand. I found 2 CFIs who were willing to jump through hoops to help me get my ticket on my own airplane. I was told no hundreds of time and over and over by every single local CFI.

I was told to just finish in a Cessna. Problem is the insurance still had a 25 hour time in type before I could solo fly the plane after I got my ticket. And I would have to do those 25 hours with an CFI that met the same strict requirements.

It wasn’t like I chose this or just said sure why not. I found the only 2 people WILLING to help.
 
Jamie Kirk said:
I don’t think you understand. I found 2 CFIs who were willing to jump through hoops to help me get my ticket on my own airplane. I was told no hundreds of time and over and over by every single local CFI.

I was told to just finish in a Cessna. Problem is the insurance still had a 25 hour time in type before I could solo fly the plane after I got my ticket. And I would have to do those 25 hours with an CFI that met the same strict requirements.

It wasn’t like I chose this or just said sure why not. I found the only 2 people WILLING to help.
Click to expand...
I understand that your situation may be different. I’m just speaking on the way I interpreted it, so forgive me. I also think I misread the fact that you paid the CFI to fly solo in your airplane. I read it as you paid the CFI for you to fly solo in your airplane to meet insurance requirements, which didn’t make sense to me. I see what you mean now. :)
 
Ryanb said:
I understand that your situation may be different. I’m just speaking on the way I interpreted it, so forgive me. I also think I misread the fact that you paid the CFI to fly solo in your airplane. I read it as you paid the CFI for you to fly solo in your airplane to meet insurance requirements, which didn’t make sense to me. I see what you mean now. :)
Click to expand...

I was so happy to finally be able to fly my plane I was grateful the CFIs were willing. We had to rack up 25 hours in 2 weeks, we just did some long cross country flights to rack up the time so they could give me the solo endorsement.

Trust me I was very close to just signing a no insurance waiver for the CFI as I felt defeated. It was such a hassle and I learned a lot about aviation insurance.
 
Ghery said:
Just don't try to wear purple in our house. Not allowed. That's one of the colors of the mutts (University of Washington) and there's no way you wear mutt colors in this Cougar house. :D
Click to expand...
pffffffff....blow it out your wazzu. :D
 
Ryanb said:
Look at it like this. Airline pilots don’t get paid while they’re commuting from home to base and vice versa. They also don’t get paid while they’re strolling through airport terminals and sitting in crew lounges.
Click to expand...

Just because airline pilots don't get their normal hourly pay rate during that time, doesn't mean they aren't compensated. They are. And how many threads about CFI pay do we need?
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/charging-dual-rates-for-solo-flights.118564/
 
Jamie Kirk said:
I was so happy to finally be able to fly my plane I was grateful the CFIs were willing. We had to rack up 25 hours in 2 weeks, we just did some long cross country flights to rack up the time so they could give me the solo endorsement.

Trust me I was very close to just signing a no insurance waiver for the CFI as I felt defeated. It was such a hassle and I learned a lot about aviation insurance.
Click to expand...
What airplane is it?
 
Lawson Laslo said:
What airplane is it?
Click to expand...

I'm curious, too. When I bought my Mooney with just 62 Cessna hours in my logbook, ins only required 15 hours (including 5 actual / simulated IMC) with a Mooney instructor. When working on Instruments, the CFII had to fly solo for 5 hours (but was a regional airline pilot).

Makes me wonder what kind of "unusual" plane the OP bought himself.
 
This is what can happen to your zero time Airbus A340-600 if you let the ground technicians perform runup tests:

16_bu_airbus_crash_1_ap_5.jpg
 
Ryanb said:
If you enjoy paying for a service when you aren’t getting one, more power to you. I wouldn’t go for that, but I guess all of my instructors have just been honest about things.
Click to expand...
Its a free market economy. Just because certain rate structures are common, does not mean other rate structures will never be used. When I hire a plumber, I pay that plumber for the job done at my location. OTOH when one of my semi's is on the side of the road with a tire issue, I call the commercial tire vendor and I get a bill for the hours the tech spent fixing the tire as well as the hours the tech spent driving to and from the road service call as well a fuel surcharge and about half a dozen other service fees and charges.

And I pay it because my options are pay it or sit on the side of the road and pound sand. The fact that plumbers don't charge me for the drive out to my location is irrelevant. If I want road side commercial tire service I have to pay for drive time. If the only CFI willing to work with the OP wants to be paid for drive time, the choices are pay it or pound sand. Airline pilots don't get paid for drive time? Great, call an airline pilot and see if they'll CFI for you. No? They won't? Too bad. Pay the drive time or pound sand. That's how a free market economy works. Cut the guy some slack.
 
When traveling for work I get paid for travel time and waiting at client sites even though I’m not directly working. As a CFI I would expect to be paid during the time I was with the student, including time spent filling up the plane. If we stopped for lunch somewhere I would stop the clock.

As long as the instructor and student are on the same page I think it’s ok and unfair to call the student dumb and the instructor dishonest.

Fortunately it’s still a free market out there.

Edit: disclaimer, I’m not a CFI but maybe one day.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top