Non lethal self defense

If you are going to start shooting, you best be shooting something that will stop whoever, or whatever you are shooting at, without letting them/it get too close to you to do anything about it.
 
bullwinkle said:
5.56mm penetrates less through Sheetrock than 00 buck. The round explosively fragments and loses almost all of its energy in short order. 00 buck with go through 6-8 layers of Sheetrock, 5.56mm usually 3-4.

You need to practice of then with any self defense firearm. A shotgunner will almost always aim high without a lot of practice. The round is slow enough and the recoil impulse large enough that it he muzzle is rising before the round leaves the barrel. If you want to get a chest hit, you'd better be aiming at the belt buckle at room distances. Aim at the head and you will likely miss over the top.
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A shotgun will still be the better choice for home defense compared to a carbine.
 
James331 said:
A shotgun will still be the better choice for home defense compared to a carbine.
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Matter of opinion. I strongly disagree. I won't grab a shotgun over a carbine for any use, except killing birds in flight.

YMMV

I do have strong opinions on this subject, but we are all on the same team here. Whatever you choose, I hope it works out well for us good guys and not for the bad guys.
 
the problem with all this....no matter how it works out....after the trigger is pulled, you'll be tell'n it to the judge.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
the problem with all this....no matter how it works out....you'll be tell'n it to the judge.
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depends entirely on where you are...around here they can't prosecute a homeowner defending his/her home e.g. if the body is on the inside, no criminal prosecution

of course there is always the wrongful-death lawsuit attempt but some states are prohibiting those too under castle doctrine
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
there is no perfect solution that's true. I just can't stand the thought of shooting one of my own kids as they are sneaking back into the house after having gone out and toilet paper the neighbors house or something
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You can always load the first round with a blank. That way not only is it a warning shot but if kids get to it you will get to it in time and if you fire at your kid thinking they are an intruder you won't harm them.
 
Catalo said:
You can always load the first round with a blank. That way not only is it a warning shot but if kids get to it you will get to it in time and if you fire at your kid thinking they are an intruder you won't harm them.
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Except this computerized thingamajic won't take blanks and in regular guns blanks won't cycle the slide, so you're left with an unready weapon if you need it.

There's also the problem that "warning shots" are treated as lethal shots in most jurisdictions.

And one more time: If you aren't 100% sure of what you are aiming at and what's behind it, DO NOT SHOOT.

 
warthog1984 said:
Except this computerized thingamajic won't take blanks and in regular guns blanks won't cycle the slide, so you're left with an unready weapon if you need it.

There's also the problem that "warning shots" are treated as lethal shots in most jurisdictions.

And one more time: If you aren't 100% sure of what you are aiming at and what's behind it, DO NOT SHOOT.
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Haven't read up on it other than what was posted. I 100% agree you should know what you're shooting at but people get scared and f up. It's just another safety precaution. As for not cycling it will most likely stop the attacker at least for a few seconds. That's all you need to manually cycle the gun.
 
As a (probably too) longtime law enforcement officer, firearms, less-lethal and use of force instructor, the OP device is not such a great idea. Stick with seperate devices for deadly and less-lethal force. It's hard enough to train people in decision making and using various devices that are spread out across a duty belt, let alone switch between four different options, in one device, under probably the most extreme stress ever experinced. Please, please, get professional training from a legititmate trainer.
 
IamNabil said:
I refuted all but one of your points, but that is irrelevant. You miss my meaning. You are playing a theoretical game. I am telling you that I have, in real life, used it, in that environment. Your opinion is nice, and I am glad you have one. It makes you a unique snowflake. It doesn't make you right.
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:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:
:thumbsup:
 
Catalo said:
You can always load the first round with a blank. That way not only is it a warning shot but if kids get to it you will get to it in time and if you fire at your kid thinking they are an intruder you won't harm them.
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Blanks can be as dangerous as a normal round. There is quite a bit of powder there so a jet of hot gas is discharged from the barrel. It can kill (what was that actor's name that off'd himself with a blank?) or injure.
 
bullwinkle said:
Not true. FBI statistics show over a 90% one shot stop rate for a single round of 5.56mm. That includes every shot in every location. For chest or head hits it is very close to 97%.

Again, the energy is almost identical between the two. There is a cult mentality about the shotgun because the recoil and large hole in the front makes it feel powerful.
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You ever seen it first hand? The issue is how long it takes.
 
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Clark1961 said:
Blanks can be as dangerous as a normal round. There is quite a bit of powder there so a jet of hot gas is discharged from the barrel. It can kill (what was that actor's name that off'd himself with a blank?) or injure.
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Not exactly. Brandon Lee (Bruce Lee's son) killed during the filming of "The Crow". There was something (leftover bullet from a homemade dummy round according to wikipedia) in the barrel and the blank propelled it into his head. So it wasn't just the blank. That said, I wouldn't want one going off next to my head either.

John
 
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There was a news story this morning on local TV. There has been a few robberies and assaults at the University of Memphis. A kid was getting in his car when two guys approached him and tried to rob him. The kid had a carry permit and a weapon on him. The news said he pulled his gun and fired it and the two ran off. It didn't say whether or not he was shooting at his assailants, so I assumed he just fired it for effect (non-lethal).
 
Catalo said:
You can always load the first round with a blank. That way not only is it a warning shot but if kids get to it you will get to it in time and if you fire at your kid thinking they are an intruder you won't harm them.
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You can also be sure of your target before pulling the trigger. Just a suggested alternate method. ;)
 
Sac Arrow said:
You ever seen it first hand? The issue is how long it takes.
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Yes, I have. I'm convinced a rifle round in the kill zone will end the fight RFN.

I also worked a case where a gentleman took a 12ga shot to the face, got up off a couch, opened a door, and ran 100 yards before expiring (in a cemetery, ironically).

A shotgun is not a death ray. No firearm is.
 
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jsstevens said:
Not exactly. Brandon Lee (Bruce Lee's son) killed during the filming of "The Crow". There was something (leftover bullet from a homemade dummy round according to wikipedia) in the barrel and the blank propelled it into his head. So it wasn't just the blank. That said, I wouldn't want one going off next to my head either.

John
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Folks have been killed by blanks though, including in the film industry. They often have a clay, wood, or paper "wad" that can kill at short ranges (inside 10-20ft).
 
somorris said:
There was a news story this morning on local TV. There has been a few robberies and assaults at the University of Memphis. A kid was getting in his car when two guys approached him and tried to rob him. The kid had a carry permit and a weapon on him. The news said he pulled his gun and fired it and the two ran off. It didn't say whether or not he was shooting at his assailants, so I assumed he just fired it for effect (non-lethal).
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Bad assumption. First, even well trained cops miss A LOT. An untrained or slightly trained CCW holder can easily miss on his first shot.

Second, I can't imagine there is a CCW trainer in the country that would suggest a warning shot. First, you don't know where the bullet will go, and you could kill an innocent, and second, some states have laws against that. I seem to recall a woman who fired a warning shot and is now being brought up on charges.
 
nddons said:
Bad assumption. First, even well trained cops miss A LOT. An untrained or slightly trained CCW holder can easily miss on his first shot.
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In a real close up lethal situation, expect to hit about 10% of the time. Some do better than that, some much worse.

There a was cop in NJ in the 80s that fired all 15 rounds from his Beretta at an assailant at a distance of ten feet and never hit the guy. It happens.
 
bullwinkle said:
Matter of opinion. I strongly disagree. I won't grab a shotgun over a carbine for any use, except killing birds in flight.
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I deer hunt. A halfway decent shot with 00 buck and they just keel over. Sub 40 yards.

Anything less than a perfect shot with a rifle, and they run off a ways
 
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bullwinkle said:
Yes, I have. I'm convinced a rifle round in the kill zone will end the fight RFN.

I also worked a case where a gentleman took a 12ga shot to the face, got up off a couch, opened a door, and ran 100 yards before expiring (in a cemetery, ironically).

A shotgun is not a death ray. No firearm is.
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The objective isn't to kill, it's to stop. This objective can be achieved by instantaneous, sudden death but with small Infantry weapons that isn't always the case. Sometimes they drop dead right now and sometimes they just keep coming, or firing, only to die a short time later.

That short time can be a mother****er.
 
Wait, you live in TX and you don't have a real gun?
 
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