Non-Flying Public and Airplanes

AggieMike88 said:
Would putting this in the windows of your airplane work? (Remove the car and replace with an airplane)

Look_but_please_don_t_touch.jpg
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Or. Two signs. First:

FOR SALE
$250,000

Second sign:

You break it,
you bought it
 
Anymouse said:
It happens at non-airshow places too. Once had a guy at a lodge up in Alaska (Katmai Lodge) that was shooting video of me landing and taxiing in. He had his son (maybe 12 yo) standing in front of the plane and just to the side as I was getting ready to start. It probably would have been okay, but the kid was a bit too close for my comfort, so I signaled to the dad that he had to move. Eventually the dad got the hint and waved his kid to the side. What I hadn't noticed before was the roughly 8 yo kid that was apparently right in front of the prop, but I did see him trot away right behind his brother. That kid would have been hamburger if I hadn't seen his brother there.
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I did a charter from Bethel to Napakiak in a C-207. Just a drop off, no bags. I landed on the runway and as I turned into the area thought of as the ramp, I dropped my pencil. I stopped, pulled the mixture, and as the prop stopped I turned off the mags and master, then opened the door for the passengers to deplane. As the passengers were exiting the plane I noticed two native women standing along the edge of the ramp, about 50 feet away. (no pavement here, everything is dirt)

The passengers walked away so I closed the door, shoved in the mixture and turned on the mags and was actually moving the key to engage the starter. At the very last nano second, I stopped and reached down and picked up my pencil. As I sat up, a little girl, about 3 or 4 years old walked out from under the prop to the left side of the plane. I almost soiled my trousers, to say the least.

I turned off the master first then the mags. I got out and took the little girls hand and led her back to the 2 native ladies. I did my best to explain to the little girl to not get close to airplanes, and explained to the ladies why it is important to keep children away. One lady told me that the little girl likes airplanes and wanted to touch it.

That is the day I started doing a walk around before starting the engine. Even if I just shut down for a few seconds.
 
This thread reminds me of the time I flew into KFIN as part of the last leg during a trip and got stuck there for several hours waiting for my dad and another passenger to come back to the airport so we could leave. Flagler Executive airport has a restaurant right next to the GA parking with a nice view divided by a chain link fence. While waiting there it was very uneventful but the kids who were outside glued by the fence were obviously excited about the aircraft. They seemed well behaved. It was close to evening. So I identified who was watching them and proposed they all come out out to the plane and take a look. You could just see how excited they all were. I opened the 182 and hit the master, dropped the flaps, turned on all the lights, and let the G1000 PFD stay on for as long as I could. I answered any questions they had as best I could. Boy were they happy. They took a lot of pictures. It sure beat the boredom. I think it’s so awesome to be able to make someone so happy. I agree that people shouldn’t go out unsupervised and take it upon themselves to get handsy and cause headaches for others. However if you’re proactive and engage with people it’s so rewarding.
 
Even when I know the owner I ask permission first.

Reminds me of one of my peeves. People who say, "I'll treat it like it's my own." I tell them, no... treat it like it's mine, because it is!
 
Back when I was flying warbirds, I had more than one idiot tell me, "My tax money paid for that and your salary. I can climb all over it if I want to."

When I had several restored military vehicles I would take to shows, I would get the same thing. One day, I am about 15' from my '43 Ford GPW jeep when I see a guy grab my M1 Garand and pull it out of the scabbard and start showing it to his son. I walked up to the guy and simply said, "Grabbing another man's weapon is about like fondling his wife." as I snatched the rifle from his hands. He tried the same crap about it being government property. He still didn't get it when I told him it had not belonged to the government in over 50 years and I had personally paid ever cent spent on its restoration in addition to being the person who physically did all the work. I also explained to him the M1 Garand was my personal property as well having been purchased quite legally from the government through the then Department of Civilian Marksmanship (now just Civilian Marksmanship Program). I was also in a period WWII uniform but didn't try explaining to him I was active duty Army as well and would never let him climb all over a government vehicle unsupervised.
 
N3368K said:
Back when I was flying warbirds, I had more than one idiot tell me, "My tax money paid for that and your salary. I can climb all over it if I want to."

When I had several restored military vehicles I would take to shows, I would get the same thing. One day, I am about 15' from my '43 Ford GPW jeep when I see a guy grab my M1 Garand and pull it out of the scabbard and start showing it to his son. I walked up to the guy and simply said, "Grabbing another man's weapon is about like fondling his wife." as I snatched the rifle from his hands. He tried the same crap about it being government property. He still didn't get it when I told him it had not belonged to the government in over 50 years and I had personally paid ever cent spent on its restoration in addition to being the person who physically did all the work. I also explained to him the M1 Garand was my personal property as well having been purchased quite legally from the government through the then Department of Civilian Marksmanship (now just Civilian Marksmanship Program). I was also in a period WWII uniform but didn't try explaining to him I was active duty Army as well and would never let him climb all over a government vehicle unsupervised.
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Can't fix stupid

Dude should go to a military armory and try to go grab rifles, let's see how that turns out for him.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Something I would have never attempted because my Dad would have kicked my ass all the way to the car, and then kicked my ass some more after we got home.
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No kidding, all I can imagine is hearing "do you know how much those things cost?!!"
 
I flew to South Carolina to demo a twin ,when I got back I saw a couple standing on the wing of my arrow. Needless to say the conversation did not go well.
 
My first airshow as airport ops staff in Shawnee saw kids trying to hang from a light sport's wings, climbing on a T-6 in a corner which was roped off, pulling on props, trying to open doors, you name it. I was blown away that anyone (especially some of the parents) could be so lax.

Another time the access gate by the terminal broke in the open position, I coned it off to signal not to go in. Next thing I know some idiot is driving up and down the taxiway. I got to him in the ops truck and asked him what he was doing - "just looking around". Yeesh.
 
TK211X said:
This thread reminds me of the time I flew into KFIN as part of the last leg during a trip and got stuck there for several hours waiting for my dad and another passenger to come back to the airport so we could leave. Flagler Executive airport has a restaurant right next to the GA parking with a nice view divided by a chain link fence. While waiting there it was very uneventful but the kids who were outside glued by the fence were obviously excited about the aircraft. They seemed well behaved. It was close to evening. So I identified who was watching them and proposed they all come out out to the plane and take a look. You could just see how excited they all were. I opened the 182 and hit the master, dropped the flaps, turned on all the lights, and let the G1000 PFD stay on for as long as I could. I answered any questions they had as best I could. Boy were they happy. They took a lot of pictures. It sure beat the boredom. I think it’s so awesome to be able to make someone so happy. I agree that people shouldn’t go out unsupervised and take it upon themselves to get handsy and cause headaches for others. However if you’re proactive and engage with people it’s so rewarding.
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This is my experience too. The sad truth is the general public’s experience of aviation is very different from ours. I am really gratified when I take the time to sit a little fellow in the cockpit and his parents are very appreciative. We take all this for granted and if we want to keep flying the way we do we need to be a lot more welcoming to the general public. There are 300 million of them and only 300 thousand of us. I kind of consider myself an ambassador of the GA community and go out of my way to engage.
 
James331 said:
Child should be removed from the parents.

If the father was a real father he would have been watching his crotch fruit, and he reaction should have been back handing him and giving him a taking to, not a hug.

Where do you think these kids learn this type of stuff is OK from.
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********. If the kid was crying, he already knew damn well it was wrong and already learned his lesson. He went to his dad because he was terrified. At that point, further punishment, especially of the physical variety, accomplishes nothing except to alienate him.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
********. If the kid was crying, he already knew damn well it was wrong and already learned his lesson. He went to his dad because he was terrified. At that point, further punishment, especially of the physical variety, accomplishes nothing except to alienate him.
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Yeah and the little tubby f'er gets a chance at bat and a award too right?

No, he's a idiot and gets his chit corrected by mom AND DAD, actually if he had a strong mom and dad he probably wouldn't have done that stupid chit in the first place.
 
PaulS said:
No kidding, all I can imagine is hearing "do you know how much those things cost?!!"
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Our parents lived in a time even people paid attention to exactly what they got paid, and saw what was really taken out of it in the form of using cash or reading a pay stub.

The modern debt society obfuscates all of that. Direct deposit. Pay stub on some webpage somewhere. One year same as cash. Low easy payments. Swipe a card.

The vast majority have no idea what it costs to own anything. They don’t know how much money was withheld from their last paycheck. How much interest they’ve paid on anything.

Besides never having a written money plan, they’ve been switched into a system that hides the numbers from them and they don’t really mind.

There’s no emotional connection to them being ripped off for a lifetime when they can’t see it. Or any respect for what something cost someone else.
 
JFC, beating the six year old isn't the solution. Beating the dad for hugging the kid isn't the solution.

Beating the dad for failure to supervise the kid would be something I could agree with.

I get it, being beat into submission was how some of us grew up. It doesn't make it right.
 
James331 said:
Yeah and the little tubby f'er gets a chance at bat and a award too right?
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Nope.

No, he's a idiot and gets his chit corrected by mom AND DAD, actually if he had a strong mom and dad he probably wouldn't have done that stupid chit in the first place.
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Bullshirt again. As someone else said, by adult standards, kids are insane. They do stupid stuff sometimes. What's important is for them to learn that said stuff is stupid. Yes, there should be consequences. But as I said, in this case, getting the living **** scared out of him is plenty. Guarantee he doesn't go flipping switches on machinery again. In this case, the kid has nothing else to learn, and punishment is going to be redundant and accomplish nothing except to alienate the kid.

And as a parent, you've got to walk the fine line between letting them get into stuff to learn from it, and making sure they don't kill themselves. The major screwup on the parents' part here was to allow him to jump into the chopper and start flipping switches. (The pilots should have disabled the aircraft as well.)

But in the grand scheme of things, I prefer it when parents allow kids to learn things the hard way, because those lessons are the ones that stick. Ironically, this particular case would have been averted had they been...

... wait for it...

... helicopter parents. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
James331 said:
if he had a strong mom and dad he probably wouldn't have done that stupid chit in the first place.
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At 5 years old I was told not to touch something and it was explained why I should not touch it, like why I should not touch the starter switch on a tractor that was parked in gear. At 6 years old I understood I was not to touch anything unless I had permission.

I understood what the consequences would be if I did something I was told not to do, and such consequences would usually end up on the seat of my pants...:yesnod:

I received my last spanking at 16. Ok, It was at the military boarding school and it was from the coach, and I certainly deserved it. (not counting the graduation paddling the jrs got to give the srs right before the ceremonies...)
 
QUOTE="flyingcheesehead, post: 2519529, member: 95"]Ironically, this particular case would have been averted had they been...

... wait for it...

... helicopter parents. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:[/QUOTE]

:frown2::frown2::frown2:....... don't give up the day job just yet....:lol:
 
Yeah soft shoed intellectuals lol

Legit, feminine men or absent fathers shouldn't have sons
 
So you hard toed military style parents beat your kids. Good on you for lack of creativity?
 
You see, my dad beat us kids. Yes, he is an ahole. And a pilot. He's currently on his third wife and beat those boys until they got bigger than him. A parent who thinks beating their kids is a solution is really just a fugging bully. So, you go ahead and you do you. It takes a real man to figure out how to raise children without feeling the need to use the threat of physical harm against someone smaller, which usually means being a wife beater also. Internet name calling just further shows what an ahole you are, and how insecure you are, as a man.
 
I've let stranger's kids sit in my airplane and look at everything, move the yoke around, etc. With my permission and supervision. I can't understand how people get the idea it's ok to just do that when they don't even know who the owner is or anything about the machine. I would never have done such a thing as a kid... I would never have done such a thing because the consequences from my dad for having done so would have been unimaginable.

I'd say most people still have good manners and values though but in a big enough crowd there are always a few exceptions.
 
I guess I have a contrary view. On the ramp on a normal day, in a hangar, I have my hands in my pockets when around someone else's airplane. At an airshow, if there's not a rope line, I assume I can explore the static displays. And I would not assume that the general public, or anyone for that matter, can tell the difference between a plane on display and one that is just parked. I would not open a closed door or hatch, and I wouldn't flip any switches even if the cockpit was open, but that is likely too much to expect from the general public.

It's the same at every car show I've ever been at. At a new car show, I wouldn't hesitate to open any unlocked door or sit in any seat. The cars that aren't supposed to be touched or sat in are usually roped off, with signs, and supervised.

If I didn't want anyone to touch my plane at a fly-in or airshow, I'd either have signs or a barrier, and I would make sure the doors were locked and it was supervised. Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but it is. Expecting other than reality is unreasonable.

JMHO.
 
woodchucker said:
You see, my dad beat us kids. Yes, he is an ahole. And a pilot. He's currently on his third wife and beat those boys until they got bigger than him. A parent who thinks beating their kids is a solution is really just a fugging bully. So, you go ahead and you do you. It takes a real man to figure out how to raise children without feeling the need to use the threat of physical harm against someone smaller, which usually means being a wife beater also. Internet name calling just further shows what an ahole you are, and how insecure you are, as a man.
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Big difference between beating and spanking as discipline.
 
N3368K said:
Big difference between beating and spanking as discipline.
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Is it really, though?

Beating: Punishment through pain by striking the child.
Spanking: Punishment through pain by striking the child.

I'm not a new-age, super-anti-spanking person, and I was spanked as a child, but I don't think it accomplished much. And the best parents I know, spanked their children exactly once in their life. And yes, I do ask for advice like that from parents whose kids have turned out amazingly well.
 
Not going to weigh in on spanking, other than to say the threat is more useful than the act, just like nuclear weapons.

But if the kid is old enough to understand, “come”, “sit”, and “stay” , there are better dog trainers than the parent has trained their monkey spawn.

Can’t complain about people who can’t get a dog to do it, if one can’t get their kid to do it. LOL.
 
''scuse me Sir, would you and your family mind waiting for the Police to arrive? I've called them because you and your family are trespassing on private property.'

-Skip
 
I have never turned down a kid asking to sit in my plane. Even if they want to sit in your plane, I'll probably help find you and ask if it's okay. I'm big on keeping kids interested in aviation. That doesn't mean anyone can walk up to my plane and open the door. I understand I have to expect this now, but I shouldn't. People should know better and I shouldn't have to rope off my plane.

As for as touching them, I'm okay with it. Even with my polished plane, I just expected to have a lot of fingerprints... even nose prints!

9059958786_1d0cd3633b_b.jpg

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My kids were both spanked occasionally for infractions warranting it. My younger just graduated from college. We have never had any problems with teachers or any other adults with our kids. In fact, since very young kids, folks have always remarked how well behaved and mannered our kids are. Both were honor students all the way through school. Both were involved in extra-curricular activities. They each graduated college Summa Cum Laude, from Auburn and Tennessee respectively. Both in four years. Each with dual or double majors and a minor. The older was a National Merit Scholar on a full academic scholarship for all four years. Both interned each summer break. The older one is gainfully employed making a great income married to an equally well mannered, respectful man. Younger is headed to graduate school. Her boyfriend is a Senior at the Naval Academy, about to be commissioned in the US Marine Corps as a 2nd Lieutenant.

My wife and I must have done something right. We never beat our kids though I did spank them when younger. Later, we had typical kid issues growing up, but it was always dealt with at home by various means, typically loss of privileges of some sort. Consistent discipline in various forms works.

Spanking sure did not seem to have hampered or hindered them. They are both extremely respectful, well mannered adults. I am grateful they are successful adults I love being around. It is a entire new chapter of parenting, when they WANT to know our opinion. As adults, we are now not only family, but friends. And they enjoy spending time with us. I can only attribute that to being consistent parents with standards and expectations and consequences for failure along with rewards for success.

We are now the ones reaping the rewards.
 
I spanked a couple times then quickly realized I didn't like the results which weren't very good anyway so I stopped doing it. When they were little and acting up we used other means to discipline them, most of the time it involved naps because generally they were exhausted. When things happened in public places I would tell them to stop or they would be carried out on my shoulder. They hated that, I think it had to do with the embarrassment. After a while, just the threat to do that worked, they knew I didn't kid around. As they got older it became a little more challenging and they got better at arguing their case. If it was cut and dry I would win. If they had a point, I would let them win. Kids, especially when they are younger, want to be in control. The problem is they have no idea what to do if you let them have control and turn into monsters. I'm a parent, not their friend, sometimes it was tough to keep that distinction when they were having issues. They all need to be socialized, every last one and they need to learn that they are not the center of the universe. To not teach them that does them a huge disservice and turns them into miserable adults.

I would not have beat or spanked that kid for starting the helicopter. He would have known my displeasure and what a dumbass move he had made before any comfort was given, and he would have had to apologize to the pilot in charge after things were sorted. He would have been made to take responsibility for his action rather than coddled. I'll give that dad the benefit of the doubt that he missed the kid climbing into the helicopter in the first place.
 
James331 said:
Ahh the Mayo 1 incident
I've shown that to all our pilots, our SOP is to disconnect our quick connect battery when at PR events.
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I'm confused. Did the kid overtemp the turbine while starting it or not?
 
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