No wonder GA is shrinking

Razorxp

Razorxp

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Razorxp
As a new pilot I still don't know much about different planes so as I was driving by my local airport i noticed this plane fueling (anyone know what it is? is it a twin engine or just a dual driveshaft?) and thought it was pretty cool looking. I pulled in to take this picture and an employee who was standing there starts taking pictures of my jeep license plate and walks over and shuts the gate. Not wanting to seem suspicious I drove over by him, said hi and asked if he knew what type of plane it was as I had never seen a front and rear prop. He just shut the gate and walked away. With my luck the TSA will show up asking what I was doing. Any way with the cold shoulder I received not sure who would want to ever go to a small FBO.
 

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Welcome to POA. Since you are new (and we all were at some point) google the name Burt Rutan and you will find many interesting airframes. I've never seen a Defiant so I can't tell but it seems that is a good guess....

-Skip
 
Some people really don't like photos to be taken of themselves or their airplanes, particularly if they are well known. It's conventional to ask first. You have the right to just shoot photos -- it's a public place -- but you may **** someone off.

Others really don't care. Most, in my experience. But some do. And some get freaked out by random people snapping photos of expensive equipment, because they think they might get robbed at a later time. That also gets alleviated by just asking.
 
Definitely a Rutan Defiant.
 
Agree, the fences are bad enough. I feel like a zoo animal looking out of my cage when I go to the public viewing area. You should've done a glamour shot pose on your hood for him. Just kidding, no need to instigate.
 
Razorxp said:
As a new pilot I still don't know much about different planes so as I was driving by my local airport i noticed this plane fueling (anyone know what it is? is it a twin engine or just a dual driveshaft?) and thought it was pretty cool looking. I pulled in to take this picture and an employee who was standing there starts taking pictures of my jeep license plate and walks over and shuts the gate. Not wanting to seem suspicious I drove over by him, said hi and asked if he knew what type of plane it was as I had never seen a front and rear prop. He just shut the gate and walked away. With my luck the TSA will show up asking what I was doing. Any way with the cold shoulder I received not sure who would want to ever go to a small FBO.
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WELCOME to POA. Sounds like you talk with an unhappy person. Most people at the airport are friendly and love to talk about airplanes and flying. Next time you have someone do that to you just say "habla usted Inglés" which is spanish for "do you speak english"
 
He was being a real jerk. I probably would of had something unpleasant to say to him.
 
Not necessarily... a lot of public-use airports are privately owned, such as the one my flying club is based at. And even as a member of the flying club, I still have to abide by a strict "no photography" policy anywhere on the property. (which seems to be ignored during club gatherings on the field, so go figure).
 
DeckardTrinity said:
Not necessarily... a lot of public-use airports are privately owned, such as the one my flying club is based at. And even as a member of the flying club, I still have to abide by a strict "no photography" policy anywhere on the property. (which seems to be ignored during club gatherings on the field, so go figure).
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You provide evidence of the problem in my opinion.
 
Thanks for the info on the plane. This was a public airport owned by the city and a city worker snapping pics of my car. The plane was fueling and I did not see the owner or I would have walked over and talked to him/her. I guess in today's world everyone is suspect until proven otherwise. The bad part is I will be hangering there in about a month so I guess I better get used to it as the fuel is Full service only.
 
I've come across one FBO that takes "respecting the privacy of owners", very seriously. I've been asked nicely, on a couple occasions to not take pictures of aircraft on a particular ramp in Indianapolis.
 
Rutan Defiant. Homebuilt plans type aircraft with maybe a dozen flying. Two separate engines. Burt wanted something with centerline thrust and the benefits of the canard.

Yep, you met a jerk. I'm all about security around an airport but I have no problems with people being escorted by either a pilot or lineman and taking pics. Having a restriction on pics on a non military airfield is stupid.
 
Meh, you got *******s in every industry, just don't pay them any attention, besides good chance it was just a TSA drone or something like that and not a pilot
 
I will just be less obvious next time I want to check out an unique plane :) I will let you know if the TSA breaks my doors down.

Reading about the plane it seems to cruise pretty good (compared to my 182 atleast).
 
As prevalent as cameras are today every body has their panties in a wad. Ooooo someone may get a picture of me or my stuff :rolleyes:...then the same D-bags post themselves up on Facebook doing the same thing with something ridiculous like YOLO or some crap. People are way to uptight these days.
 
Good idea to keep some spy type cameras around that look like other objects.
I have a camera disguised as an ordinary gun. Nobody ever suspects I am taking photos this way.

Let me know if you want to see my collection of photos of people running away.
 
GlennAB1 said:
I've come across one FBO that takes "respecting the privacy of owners", very seriously. I've been asked nicely, on a couple occasions to not take pictures of aircraft on a particular ramp in Indianapolis.
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What privacy? If they are at a public airport they have no expectation of privacy.
Speaking of privacy I was at Santa Monica once and I saw a guy with the biggest lens I've ever seen on a camera. I overheard that Angelina Jolie was out flying her Cirrus.
 
Razorxp said:
The bad part is I will be hangaring there in about a month so I guess I better get used to it as the fuel is Full service only.
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Tip EVERYONE except him. And make sure you do it in front of him!!

I've found several pictures of my airplane on the internet. People seem to like to take shots of it whenever I do an RON.

Same thing when I was flying the CASA. Especially on ferry flights. One of my FOs used to get his panties in a wad about it, but it never bothered me. There's so many pictures of the CASAs I used to fly on the internet, I figured a few more wouldn't matter.

It's funny. You fly into some places (like the UK) and by the time you get to the hotel, if you google you're N-number, you'll see several pictures of your plane on the ramp. I've downloaded a great shot of me landing in Manchester once. I've even joined a forum or two just to chat with the folks that took the pictures.
 
GlennAB1 said:
I've come across one FBO that takes "respecting the privacy of owners", very seriously. I've been asked nicely, on a couple occasions to not take pictures of aircraft on a particular ramp in Indianapolis.
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Which ramp?
 
Velocity173 said:
Rutan Defiant. Homebuilt plans type aircraft with maybe a dozen flying. Two separate engines. Burt wanted something with centerline thrust and the benefits of the canard...
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I was surprised to hear that so few of those are flying. I friend of mine in (who was also my A&P) built and flew one for a short time. He sold it and built an RV-6.
 
I am in aviation,one year,
I meet no unfriendly people,yet

You just unlucky
 
edo2000 said:
I was surprised to hear that so few of those are flying. I friend of mine in (who was also my A&P) built and flew one for a short time. He sold it and built an RV-6.
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Always liked the Defiant. I think if it were offered as. kit and not plans built, it would have done better. Twin engine built from plans I think was bit more than most could handle. No telling how many projects are sitting around the country unfinished.

One of my favorite vids. To build and fly at RAF in Mojave in the late 70s early 80s would have been a blast.


 
Not everyone at the airport is an aviation enthusiast. Even professional pilots may consider their jobs to be... jobs. FBOs in particular may have no problem slamming the door in your face if it means respecting the wishes of the VIP who is spending way more money than you are with the FBO. I've had it happen to me.

I've also experienced quiet derision by "old farts" who have hangars and airplanes which rarely fly, but have somehow decided that I'm not respectable as a pilot because I don't yet qualify to collect Social Security.

Aviation may be friendly in some places, but it's definitely not friendly everywhere. Many of the guys at my local airport bemoan the lack of younger pilots, but few of them have gone out of their way to encourage or assist me when I needed (and requested) help. In the times when they did, help was offered begrudgingly and seemed like pulling teeth on my end to make it happen. Could be just me, but since I haven't observed many young pilots out there over the past several years, I suspect that it's not just me.

Another perspective is that rubberneckers, paparazzi, nosey news media, and prospective criminals all have an established history of snooping around airports. No way to know whether that stranger is a friend or foe, so some folks just avoid the potential for conflict.


JKG
 
JGoodish said:
Not everyone at the airport is an aviation enthusiast. Even professional pilots may consider their jobs to be... jobs. FBOs in particular may have no problem slamming the door in your face if it means respecting the wishes of the VIP who is spending way more money than you are with the FBO. I've had it happen to me.

I've also experienced quiet derision by "old farts" who have hangars and airplanes which rarely fly, but have somehow decided that I'm not respectable as a pilot because I don't yet qualify to collect Social Security.

Aviation may be friendly in some places, but it's definitely not friendly everywhere. Many of the guys at my local airport bemoan the lack of younger pilots, but few of them have gone out of their way to encourage or assist me when I needed (and requested) help. In the times when they did, help was offered begrudgingly and seemed like pulling teeth on my end to make it happen. Could be just me, but since I haven't observed many young pilots out there over the past several years, I suspect that it's not just me.

Another perspective is that rubberneckers, paparazzi, nosey news media, and prospective criminals all have an established history of snooping around airports. No way to know whether that stranger is a friend or foe, so some folks just avoid the potential for conflict.


JKG
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Maybe you look like someone from the State Tax office.....with your camera and all.
 
I agree with the majority. Most pilots love to show their planes. You ran into a jerk employee. I've seen a lot of planes, and that plane would catch my attention. Don't clump some butt head with the others. Every profession has its pecker heads.
 
Hey, you just ran into the guy, you don't know him, you don't know what he was thinking, and we don't know how you were behaving. For all we know this could have been a new employee on his first week trying to impress the boss after taking the now-required TSA see-something say something training. Sounds like a typical assistant manager type to me trying to throw his weight around a little, but again, I'd find a way to try and smooth things over and making friends at the FBO would be a higher priority than smearing them on the internet if it was me.
 
If you are standing on public property, you can take a picture of anything you want. If someone doesn't want you taking pictures of their plane, they should put it in a hangar, away from public view.
 
RyanShort1 said:
Hey, you just ran into the guy, you don't know him, you don't know what he was thinking, and we don't know how you were behaving. For all we know this could have been a new employee on his first week trying to impress the boss after taking the now-required TSA see-something say something training. Sounds like a typical assistant manager type to me trying to throw his weight around a little, but again, I'd find a way to try and smooth things over and making friends at the FBO would be a higher priority than smearing them on the internet if it was me.
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To Ryan, not too sure how I smeared anyone. And I did try to drive over to him after I noticed him taking my picture. I never mentioned the fbo or anything about him. I just gave my opinion about an experience I had today looking at a plane I had never seen before. Only point was it left a bad taste in my mouth and would have in anyone who was in my place. Maybe if I were on the other side of the fence the worker would be a great guy, but from what I see ga needs all the outsiders we can get. As for making friends,half of the pilots in the hangers were friends and clients before I got into aviation.
 
wrbix said:
Maybe you look like someone from the State Tax office.....with your camera and all.
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Nah, no state has to do that much work. Get a report from the airport manager, or (what my state does) get a registration report from the FAA. In any case, not a concern for those who pay their taxes.

Could be one of those airplane repo agents, though, since we now know that's how they all work.


JKG
 
GlennAB1 said:
And if you're on an FBO's property?
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From what I remember from my photography classes a couple decades ago, if you go into a place a business, or even a private residence, you're allowed to take pictures until you're asked/told not to.
 
Velocity173 said:
Always liked the Defiant. I think if it were offered as. kit and not plans built, it would have done better. Twin engine built from plans I think was bit more than most could handle. No telling how many projects are sitting around the country unfinished.

One of my favorite vids. To build and fly at RAF in Mojave in the late 70s early 80s would have been a blast.


Click to expand...

Rutan made a comment at a forum at Osh '85 that although the amateur built rules allowed something like a Defiant, that isn't what was really intended when the rules were originally formulated. At another forum the same year he announced RAF was suspending all plans sales due to his concerns about liability lawsuits. Scaled Composites was really gearing up by then. Not that many Defiant plans out there before that announcement.
 
GRG55 said:
Rutan made a comment at a forum at Osh '85 that although the amateur built rules allowed something like a Defiant, that isn't what was really intended when the rules were originally formulated. At another forum the same year he announced RAF was suspending all plans sales due to his concerns about liability lawsuits. Scaled Composites was really gearing up by then. Not that many Defiant plans out there before that announcement.
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Most builders simply thought it was a "Too big of a project" to get into. it was a 10-15 year project. too big for the average garage build.
 
Anymouse said:
Tip EVERYONE except him. And make sure you do it in front of him!!

I've found several pictures of my airplane on the internet. People seem to like to take shots of it whenever I do an RON.

Same thing when I was flying the CASA. Especially on ferry flights. One of my FOs used to get his panties in a wad about it, but it never bothered me. There's so many pictures of the CASAs I used to fly on the internet, I figured a few more wouldn't matter.

It's funny. You fly into some places (like the UK) and by the time you get to the hotel, if you google you're N-number, you'll see several pictures of your plane on the ramp. I've downloaded a great shot of me landing in Manchester once. I've even joined a forum or two just to chat with the folks that took the pictures.
Click to expand...

That happened to me too! Not in Britain, but here in California. I used Google image search on my N number and found to pictures of me in my plane at Merced airport. One taking off and one taxiing. There are "plane spotters" out there. Definitely way more in the UK. Popular pastime over there I guess.
 
Dav8or said:
That happened to me too! Not in Britain, but here in California. I used Google image search on my N number and found to pictures of me in my plane at Merced airport. One taking off and one taxiing. There are "plane spotters" out there. Definitely way more in the UK. Popular pastime over there I guess.
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That's because it's practically impossible for a commoner to fly a real plane.
 
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