No more smoking at RJ Reynolds...

Margy was a smoker until she gave it up on a bet with another smoking friend. That was probably twenty years ago. She's much more sensitive to being in a smoky environment than I (who never smoked) is. I'll have to say there are a few people I know who are still (cigarette) smokers, but it's not like it used to be.
 
You hit the nail on the head. What is "fun" about inhaling burning embers?
Lots of fun things sound pretty odd if you describe them in an unusual way. Drinking what remains of a 65% ethanol solution left sitting in a secondhand burnt wooden barrel on the dirty floor of a damp Scottish warehouse for 20 years doesn't sound much like "fun" either.

Anyway, in addition to the rapid delivery of nicotine...

People enjoy the taste and the smell of (fresh) cigarette smoke. Lots of people also find it pleasurable to occupy their mouths with something other than food - ever chewed a pencil, or your nails? Watching and breathing out smoke can be relaxing and contemplative too, in the same way that sitting in front of a campfire is "fun" for some folks.

The ritualistic, physical sharing element is also a bonding thing and an icebreaker in social situations (or was, when smoking was permitted in any environments where you might meet new people), but perhaps getting into the many cultural aspects and associations would be straying too far from a tight definition of "fun" for you.

I'm like Jay, if it wasn't hazardous I'd smoke again now (quit years ago).
 
I didn't say no one should like it, lots of reasons to do so. But Jay said it was "fun", and I want to know what's so fun about inhaling burning embers.
Well, you must realize that my smoking experience is decades out of date (my last cigarette was New Years Eve 1986) but I will take a whack at that question.

Smoking becomes a ritual, and there is fun in rituals. Pour a cup of coffee, light a smoke. Drink a beer, have a smoke. Hit the freeway, have a smoke.

Because I knew it was unhealthy, I would use it as a reward system. Finish this project, have a smoke. Get through Chicago rush hour traffic, have a smoke.

The opening of a new carton was like Christmas. Take a cool, sleek pack out, and smack it, hard, half a dozen times, to tighten up the tobacco. Tear the cellophane off, and pop one out.

A new lighter was always fun. Playing with fire is always fun! The first smoke of a new pack was always fresh and delicious. That first smoke in the morning -- that I wouldn't allow myself until I was driving to work (another reward, for getting my ass out of the house) was amazing -- like a breath of fresh air!

Twirling the cigarette in your fingers was fun and comforting. Blowing smoke out your nose, or smoke rings, was a gas. The "lung burn" felt great, so do a double inhale!

If your girl smoked, too, french kissing smoke was awesome! And, of course, hanging with your friends on break, all of whom smoked, was fun!

These are the good things I remember. I still dream about smoking, and occasionally still awaken with a start, all guilty and sweaty, thinking I had stupidly started smoking again!

Of course, we could do a whole 'nother post on the BAD parts of smoking that ultimately compelled me to quit. lol
 
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Lots of fun things sound pretty odd if you describe them in an unusual way. Drinking what remains of a 65% ethanol solution left sitting in a secondhand burnt wooden barrel on the dirty floor of a damp Scottish warehouse for 20 years doesn't sound much like "fun" either.

How about we accompany this with some 'dried rotten milk with green fungus growing on it' ?

Right now, I am drinking an extract of partially burnt tree-nuts with foamy liquid squeezed from the titty of a cow. Sounds delicious, doesn't it ?

People enjoy the taste and the smell of (fresh) cigarette smoke. Lots of people also find it pleasurable to occupy their mouths with something other than food - ever chewed a pencil, or your nails? Watching and breathing out smoke can be relaxing and contemplative too, in the same way that sitting in front of a campfire is "fun" for some folks.

The ritualistic, physical sharing element is also a bonding thing and an icebreaker in social situations (or was, when smoking was permitted in any environments where you might meet new people), but perhaps getting into the many cultural aspects and associations would be straying too far from a tight definition of "fun" for you.

Cigar and Pipe smoking condense both of those aspects. While some nicotine is delivered through the saliva, it is far less than the amount delivered through deeply inhaled filtered cigarette smoke. It is about taste, smell, having something in your mouth and at times a social experience. Pipe smoke instantly moves me back into my uncles library and to discussions about politics and the folly of the EU milk program :) .
 
Hehe, I was afraid of waxing too lyrical but Jay has outdone me by a good margin.

I'm so keen on carbonized tree nuts that I use a special machine to powderize a handful every morning, before mixing the results into a slurry with hot water. Delicious! :)
 
It is about taste, smell, having something in your mouth and at times a social experience.
Maybe I'm lucky. I tried smoking a few times when I was young just because I was the type to try anything, but I didn't find anything pleasurable about it at all.
 
Maybe I'm lucky. I tried smoking a few times when I was young just because I was the type to try anything, but I didn't find anything pleasurable about it at all.
You just touched on another aspect of smoking: Smokers are risk takers.

Risk takers are generally interesting, and fun to be around. Even when we go to bars, now, during football games we always seem to end up chatting with a group of smokers.

Why? Because they are fun people!
 
You just touched on another aspect of smoking: Smokers are risk takers.

Risk takers are generally interesting, and fun to be around. Even when we go to bars, now, during football games we always seem to end up chatting with a group of smokers.

Why? Because they are fun people!
Does this mean I'm a fun person because I tried or a stick-in-the-mud because I didn't find it enjoyable. :rofl:
 
Does this mean I'm a fun person because I tried or a stick-in-the-mud because I didn't find it enjoyable. :rofl:
Well, if you were REALLY crazy (crazy=fun) you would have forced yourself to keep smoking, until it was fun. :)

Which, in a strange way, is what every smoker does, at the start. (I remember feeling quite ill on that first cigarette!)

Humans are strange, no? Of course, I was pretty amazed when Mary wanted a second child. If a woman can forget THAT sort of experience, anything is possible.
 
Just because you're "pro-pot" doesn't mean you're a smoker of pot. There are countless ways to ingest THC, whereas cigarettes have to be smoked to be ingested. In fact, you can be pro-pot, and hate any and all types of smoke. See how that works?

There are also many people who are pro-pot (and not even users) because of the cost of criminalization to the citizens both financially and socially. Currently the US spends $10 Billion/year criminalizing marijuana, and yearly arrests are more than murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault combined. It's beyond goofy that it's classified as a Sched. 1 drug. What's a Sched. 1 drug? "The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical treatment use in the U.S." Ha.

So it doesn't take a mental giant (to borrow from you) to easily see how one could be pro-pot and anti-cigarette.


News here tonight was all about new government mandated labeling of pot edibles. We're WAY past all those silly problems the rest of y'all have and are well into "OMG new rules to make and new taxes and free ponies for bored politicians!" stage.

Apparently morons were overdosing and now the chocolate bar molds say "10 mg THC" right on each square and the packaging must be child proofed, since kids think it's candy.

The industry here also willingly stopped the VERY commonly done trick in other food packaging where a large label says "less than 10g of fat"... And in smaller letters "... per serving". And then... a tiny serving size.

Apparently idiots were eating pot cookies that did that trick where a sliver of the cookie was enough to tranquilize a horse. One doofus jumped off a balcony in his best rendition of superman and died.

The really funny part to me watching the newscast that I pointed out to the lovely and talented nurse sitting next to me playing with her iPhone was that all the industry "experts" and PR folk, who were being blasted full on with TV camera bright as hell lights, all had wide open pupils.

LOL. I guess they were quite relaxed during their interviews... They seemed lucid enough to do them, but that's not saying much with the typical doofuses normally interviewed for local newscasts or who get paid to do so once in a while.

The best was the lady who said that they've also added warning labels to take a single square of chocolate and wait 45 minutes. "Then after that you can decide if you don't want any more. Or you DO!" And she emphasized the DO without really realizing it. Haha.

Funny people, potheads. Especially potheads on TV trying to act serious.
 
Hehe, I was afraid of waxing too lyrical but Jay has outdone me by a good margin.

I'm so keen on carbonized tree nuts that I use a special machine to powderize a handful every morning, before mixing the results into a slurry with hot water. Delicious! :)
I'll go one further than that...I carbonize those pits every three days. I've even been to the source and plucked a few off the tree and worked a few with the grower/producer.
 
Could you explain to me what it is about inhaling burning smoldering embers into your pulmonary system that's "fun"? I understand the enjoyment of the pharmacological effect of nicotine, but what is actually "fun" about the activity?
Are you saying you don't understand why people enjoy this particular nicotine delivery mechanism?
You hit the nail on the head. What is "fun" about inhaling burning embers?
I didn't say no one should like it, lots of reasons to do so. But Jay said it was "fun", and I want to know what's so fun about inhaling burning embers.

Anyway, in addition to the rapid delivery of nicotine...

People enjoy the taste and the smell of (fresh) cigarette smoke. Lots of people also find it pleasurable to occupy their mouths with something other than food - ever chewed a pencil, or your nails? Watching and breathing out smoke can be relaxing and contemplative too, in the same way that sitting in front of a campfire is "fun" for some folks.

The ritualistic, physical sharing element is also a bonding thing and an icebreaker in social situations (or was, when smoking was permitted in any environments where you might meet new people), but perhaps getting into the many cultural aspects and associations would be straying too far from a tight definition of "fun" for you.

I'm like Jay, if it wasn't hazardous I'd smoke again now (quit years ago).
Well, you must realize that my smoking experience is decades out of date (my last cigarette was New Years Eve 1986) but I will take a whack at that question.

Smoking becomes a ritual, and there is fun in rituals. Pour a cup of coffee, light a smoke. Drink a beer, have a smoke. Hit the freeway, have a smoke.

Because I knew it was unhealthy, I would use it as a reward system. Finish this project, have a smoke. Get through Chicago rush hour traffic, have a smoke.

The opening of a new carton was like Christmas. Take a cool, sleek pack out, and smack it, hard, half a dozen times, to tighten up the tobacco. Tear the cellophane off, and pop one out.

A new lighter was always fun. Playing with fire is always fun! The first smoke of a new pack was always fresh and delicious. That first smoke in the morning -- that I wouldn't allow myself until I was driving to work (another reward, for getting my ass out of the house) was amazing -- like a breath of fresh air!

Twirling the cigarette in your fingers was fun and comforting. Blowing smoke out your nose, or smoke rings, was a gas. The "lung burn" felt great, so do a double inhale!

If your girl smoked, too, french kissing smoke was awesome! And, of course, hanging with your friends on break, all of whom smoked, was fun!

These are the good things I remember. I still dream about smoking, and occasionally still awaken with a start, all guilty and sweaty, thinking I had stupidly started smoking again!

Of course, we could do a whole 'nother post on the BAD parts of smoking that ultimately compelled me to quit. lol

Well, if you were REALLY crazy (crazy=fun) you would have forced yourself to keep smoking, until it was fun. :)

Which, in a strange way, is what every smoker does, at the start. (I remember feeling quite ill on that first cigarette!)

Humans are strange, no? Of course, I was pretty amazed when Mary wanted a second child. If a woman can forget THAT sort of experience, anything is possible.
Jay and Tiger laid out all the pieces pretty eloquently...but no one is quite connecting the dots.

Junkies know what this is about, but cigarette smokers have been PR'd into believing they aren't the same.

Here it is; smoking becomes 'fun' when your brain connects it to the delivery of a hit of the drug, nicotine. If you and your brain are addicted to the nicotine, everything connected with getting it is 'good' and 'fun' and 'rewarding' and 'satisfying'. Even if to a normal person it is smelly, unsanitary and sickening.

Put another way, heroin and coke junkies that use the needle in absolutely disgusting ways, connect the two things in a way that makes it 'fun' to do. The brain is addicted to the drug and therefore 'rewards' the delivery mechanism including the equipment, the setting, the camaraderie, and the process itself (see Jay's posts for the cigarette version).

Here's an interesting 'test' of whether something is truly addictive; Addicts tend to be fixated on the drug and a primary delivery mechanism. Non-addicts fooling around with non-addictive substances, not so much. There are exceptions all around but nicotine is highly addictive because:
- cigarette smokers smoke cigarettes and not pipes or cigars
- Pipe smokers smoke pipes and not " "
- Cigar smokers smoke cigars and not " "
- Marlboro smokers smoke Marlboros and not other brands
- Cigarette smokers smoking e-cigs are trying to quit or get some nicotine in places they can't smoke - it's always less satisfying
- Kids who start vaping won't necessarily start smoking (we'll see)
- Go into a place that sells nicotine and they always know what a particular customer is coming in for - brand and type.

Pot and THC is not highly addictive because:
- Joint smokers like pipes and bongs and vice a versa
- Go into a head shop and the variety of delivery devices is mind boggling
- Many smokers enjoy 'brownies' and many will eat it as readily as smoke it for a different experience

"I'm addicted to food".... bullsh*t

"I'm addicted to sex".... maybe, can you be more specific?

"I'm addicted to flying".... double BS, want to fly my PC-12?
 
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If THC is not addictive, how come potheads repetitively risk arrest and conviction to get the drug ?
 
If THC is not addictive, how come potheads repetitively risk arrest and conviction to get the drug ?

Because they like it? You can like something without being physically addicted.
 
Because they like it? You can like something without being physically addicted.

Mh, we were just told that all tobacco smokers are only doing it because they are addicted, and not because they enjoy it.
 
Mh, we were just told that all tobacco smokers are only doing it because they are addicted, and not because they enjoy it.
At some point nic smokers are addicted, and they enjoy satisfying the craving even when they are sick and tired of the habit.
 
At some point nic smokers are addicted, and they enjoy satisfying the craving even when they are sick and tired of the habit.

Many are. No different from THC addicts.
 
You just touched on another aspect of smoking: Smokers are risk takers.

Risk takers are generally interesting, and fun to be around. Even when we go to bars, now, during football games we always seem to end up chatting with a group of smokers.

Why? Because they are fun people!

Smoking and chewed gum are deviant behaviors. So if you're looking for entertainment for the evening, those are the women to focus on in the bars... :yes:
 
Many are. No different from THC addicts.
...in your opinion.

I have a lot of respect for the mechanism of 'addiction' and try not to apply it lightly. So I just did a search on the word and got:

Addiction is a condition that results when a person ingests a substance (e.g., alcohol, cocaine, nicotine) or engages in an activity (e.g., gambling, sex, shopping) that can be pleasurable but the continued use/act of which becomes compulsive and interferes with ordinary life responsibilities, such as work ...

Given that broad definition, maybe I need to lighten up a bit. Okay.

I do have a problem with equating all these substance addictions with each other. They are different and the challenges they pose to their users and society are very different. Ignoring the differences and putting them all in a single bucket just isn't very helpful.

Of course 'we' don't treat them all the same; some are legal, others are criminalized, some are taxed, some impose a tax, some are heavily regulated and some are government promoted. Strangely enough all of the above apply to gambling in the US!

Obviously there's not a consensus on how these issues should be handled. Personally I think reducing the level of tobacco smoking is good for everyone. I don't think our society benefits from more pot heads. Decriminalization of pot usage is a good thing but anything that promotes wider use is a bad thing, medical benefits notwithstanding.

Our OT, "No more smoking at RJR" is simply a self serving act by an amoral corporation.. in my opinion.
 
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Comparing THC to nicotine is rather silly, as far as addictive properties.

'Addictive properties' as in what it does to a rat or what it does to a human in a social context ?

No doubt, there are plenty of nicotine addicts, they need to maintain a level and if they can't they have signs of pharmacologic withdrawal. Getting off the drug is no different from getting of heroin.

At the same time, there are plenty of THC addicts. While they have less of a pharmacologic addiction, their behavior is clearly that of an addict. They keep getting arrested over and over again for possession or paraphernalia yet every time a cop rolls up to their car parked at the county boat-ramp, they have another baggie or joint on them. When I grew up, the addicts made pilgrimages to Amsterdam to pick up their supply, knowing that they may get caught and jailed at the border. Nowadays, THC addicts make pilgrimages to their new mecca, Boulder, CO to get access to the good stuff. How is that not addicted bheavior ?

For both substances, you also have recreational users who are not addicted and use the same as most people partake in alcoholic beverages. At the right time, place and without a negative effect on their life or the life of those around them.
 
'Addictive properties' as in what it does to a rat or what it does to a human in a social context ?

No doubt, there are plenty of nicotine addicts, they need to maintain a level and if they can't they have signs of pharmacologic withdrawal. Getting off the drug is no different from getting of heroin.

At the same time, there are plenty of THC addicts. While they have less of a pharmacologic addiction, their behavior is clearly that of an addict. They keep getting arrested over and over again for possession or paraphernalia yet every time a cop rolls up to their car parked at the county boat-ramp, they have another baggie or joint on them. When I grew up, the addicts made pilgrimages to Amsterdam to pick up their supply, knowing that they may get caught and jailed at the border. Nowadays, THC addicts make pilgrimages to their new mecca, Boulder, CO to get access to the good stuff. How is that not addicted bheavior ?

For both substances, you also have recreational users who are not addicted and use the same as most people partake in alcoholic beverages. At the right time, place and without a negative effect on their life or the life of those around them.
YGTBSM - nobody that is a serious THC user is traveling to Colorado to acquire it. It costs more and bringing it back is risky. The people getting caught bringing THC out of Colorado are not regular users - just tourists who thought it would be fun to bring it home.
 
YGTBSM - nobody that is a serious THC user is traveling to Colorado to acquire it. It costs more and bringing it back is risky. The people getting caught bringing THC out of Colorado are not regular users - just tourists who thought it would be fun to bring it home.

People are running bus-tours from Dallas to Colorado to fill the demand, some of the pot-houses report 70% out of state sales. I am sure they burn it all before crossing the state line....
 
People are running bus-tours from Dallas to Colorado to fill the demand, some of the pot-houses report 70% out of state sales. I am sure they burn it all before crossing the state line....

None of those people are serious THC users in their day to day life. It's not like it's cheaper there or easier to get versus their local hookups.
 
None of those people are serious THC users in their day to day life. It's not like it's cheaper there or easier to get versus their local hookups.

Thus is 100% accurate. The cost is insane, and the 25% tax makes it worse. But it has pretty much eliminated illicit Marijuana deals in the cities that have allowed retail sales.
 
None of those people are serious THC users in their day to day life. It's not like it's cheaper there or easier to get versus their local hookups.

You may be right, the day to day users are the ones that keep getting arrested over and over for something the 'merely enjoy'.
 
None of those people are serious THC users in their day to day life. It's not like it's cheaper there or easier to get versus their local hookups.
It's funny, I've heard all my life that pot isn't addictive.

Yet, strangely, since the 1970s, I can rattle off a list of names of people I know who get stoned -- and stay stoned -- every day.

I think it's best to say it is LESS addictive than nicotine.

Interestingly, studies have repeatedly shown that nicotine can be beneficial, with few side effects. People generally perform better in standardized tests, after ingesting nicotine. It may even help delay (or defray) the effects of Alzheimers.

Personally, nowadays I limit my drug intake to caffeine and alcohol. :)
 
It's funny, I've heard all my life that pot isn't addictive.

Yet, strangely, since the 1970s, I can rattle off a list of names of people I know who get stoned -- and stay stoned -- every day.

I think it's best to say it is LESS addictive than nicotine.

Interestingly, studies have repeatedly shown that nicotine can be beneficial, with few side effects. People generally perform better in standardized tests, after ingesting nicotine. It may even help delay (or defray) the effects of Alzheimers.

Personally, nowadays I limit my drug intake to caffeine and alcohol. :)
Well it's not really that physically addictive - but that doesn't mean it can't be "abused". Many that get carried away with it are more or less self medicating for some sort of underlying medical issue. You're not going to get SICK and go through severe withdrawal if you stop like severe alcohol abusers.

It's kind of like someone that is morbidly obese that eats two or three boxes of little debbies per day. They could stop eating the little debbies without going through withdrawal...but they like them some christmas tree cakes a little too much.

I know of many that don't abuse it but regularly consume and are very successful people. Their peers never have a clue. For the record, I'm not one...

The largest problem is that people aren't particularly motivated to do much of anything while high. So those that get into the "wake and bake" style of life don't tend to accomplish a damn thing. That said they also don't tend to cause much of any problem for society either. They do enough to get by in life and are by no means criminals.

I was once parked outside a dispensary in Colorado for about a hour. I watched the "type of person" that kept showing up and walking in. Their average age was probably about 45 and they drove pretty new vehicles. Soccer moms, etc...
 
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Well it's not really that physically addictive - but that doesn't mean it can't be "abused". Many that get carried away with it are more or less self medicating for some sort of underlying medical issue. You're not going to get SICK and go through severe withdrawal if you stop like severe alcohol abusers.

In that regard it is not different from tobacco smokers. There are plenty of tobacco smokers who stop smoking for lengths of time, be it due to hospitalization or work assignments that dont allow tobacco consumption (e.g. higher level cleanroom work). There is some physical addiction to nicotine smoke, but it is not the same as opiates, benzos or alcohol where acute withdrawal can cause life-threatening situations. Most of the addiction to tobacco products is psychological, no different from pot.

The largest problem is that people aren't particularly motivated to do much of anything while high. So those that get into the "wake and bake" style of life don't tend to accomplish a damn thing. That said they also don't tend to cause much of any problem for society either. They do enough to get by in life and are by no means criminals.
No different from functioning alcoholics then.
 
Nicotine is highly addictive.

Indeed. Marijuana is "man I miss the feeling of being high"

Nictotine is "I feel sick, I can't think about anything else, I need nicotine right now. I can't stop thinking about it. I can't stop thinking about it. I can't stop thinking about it...."
 
Indeed. Marijuana is "man I miss the feeling of being high"

Nictotine is "I feel sick, I can't think about anything else, I need nicotine right now. I can't stop thinking about it. I can't stop thinking about it. I can't stop thinking about it...."
Agreed. Going from 2.5 packs of Marlboros a day, to zero, is the hardest thing I've ever done.
 
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