No COVID vaccine for pilots, yet...

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I agree they’ll probably approve it but there’s good reason to think they might not too.

if that’s the case I’ll get my family vaccinated and wait for approval.

If we want to light a fire under then I think letting mainstream media know pilots fear the FAA won’t allow them to be vaccinated would be a good idea. Maybe we even get Congress to pay attention to this ridiculous system we have now. Probably not, but one can dream.
 
bflynn said:
These threads are really getting ridiculous.

Experimental drugs are a no no. I really hope nobody needs this explained to them. Drug trials are experiments.

Yes, once the FDA provides approval for a vaccine, you’ll be able to get it, if you CAN get it. It will be scarce for a while.
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Except “emergency use” isn’t the same as FDA approval. My understanding it is allowing something that is still experimental to be used because the need seems to outweigh the risk.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
Ok. I’ll say it again. “Vaccines” are not medications.” They’re vaccines, which is a different type of substance. They aren’t medications, foods, or implanted devices; they’re vaccines.
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A vaccine is however, a drug. FDA approved medicines and drugs (see above).
 
gsengle said:
Except “emergency use” isn’t the same as FDA approval. My understanding it is allowing something that is still experimental to be used because the need seems to outweigh the risk.
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Legally it is approval.

The FAA's advice on vaccines is to use common sense and I believe they think we can figure that out for ourselves. Obviously they overestimated some people.
 
As a private pilot flying under Basicmed, I'm thrilled to not have to worry much about this.

The FDA Vaccines Advisory Committee is meeting this week to discuss an Emergency Use Authorization for the Pfizer vaccine, and next week to discuss the EUA for the Moderna vaccine. The open sessions of those meetings are on the 10th and 17, respectively. I think there is an excellent chance both will be approved. But I'm not in a high-risk group, so I'll not have the option to take the vaccine under the EUA. Nothing for the FAA to potentially get bent out of shape about in my case. I estimate it will be several months after full approval of a vaccine before I'll have a chance to take it, and at that point I'll consider it just as reportable under Basicmed as were my childhood vaccinations, or annual flu vaccinations--that is to say, not reportable.

I sympathize with the professional pilots--they have a lot more riding on how the FAA ultimately decides to handle this. I'd really hate to be in a position where, if I had multiple risk factors for COVID, I'd have to choose between getting the vaccine under an EUA, or face uncertainty over keeping my medical.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
“Vaccines” are not “medications.”
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CharlieD3 said:
A vaccine is however, a drug. FDA approved medicines and drugs (see above).
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A vaccine is a vaccine. It is not a medication/drug.

Regardless of the FAA's current thinking on this issue, their "thought process" might change on January 21st.

Other countries are likely going to require air crew vaccinations, so the FAA's hands will be tied at that point anyway.
 
CharlieD3 said:
And, for the record... Here's something the FAA has said:
"
FDA (Food and Drug Administration) approved less than 12 months ago. The FAA requires at least one-year of post-marketing experience with a new drug before considering if for aeromedical certification purposes. New antibiotics, lipid-lowering drugs, and antihypertensive medications may be considered earlier than one year. Please contact the RFS or AMCD for guidance on specific applicants."

Source:https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/pharm/dni_dnf/

Which also states:
"
Do Not Fly. Airmen should not fly while using any of the medications in the Do Not Issue section above "

And, the "... approved less than 12months ago..." section is in the Do Not Issue section.

No vaccine for pilots, yet.
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I assume then that since the plain old ordinary Flue vaccine changes every year, it is never on the market for a year, so it will cause you to loose your medical (if you have one).
 
Ravioli said:
Why is it a "rational medical decision" to take a new vaccine for a disease with a 98% recovery rate? Oh, that's right. It's SCIENCE. How many other things with 2% global mortality rate must this ludicrous "rationality" be applied to?
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Ravioli said:
Not sure what you've been reading.

I just think it's a dumb risk for something that the vast majority of people (and pilots) will survive with minimal impact.
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I'm in the medical field. I'm planning the funeral for a close relative that passed 3 days ago and have two more relatives that are Covid positive and still hospitalized. My business is ultrasound and I've had literally dozens of pregnancies and mothers that are showing effects post Covid. We have over 200+ firefighters and EMS that can't return to work as they have long term vascular and lung damage. One of the medical assistants that helps me (36 y/o) passed out 2 weeks ago and stroked not knowing she was Covid positive (no fever ever).

A lot of folks like to claim less than 1% effected, but keep in mind, that's a mortality rate and not a long term damage-stroke can never work again statistic ... I get to see it first hand every day ...
 
Ravioli said:
And as we cascade towards the lock...

Why is it a "rational medical decision" to take a new vaccine for a disease with a 98% recovery rate? Oh, that's right. It's SCIENCE. How many other things with 2% global mortality rate must this ludicrous "rationality" be applied to?
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Because you choose to live in society - which by its definition means that you should do some tings for the greater good, like providing food to those that are in need, power to all homes, paying taxes so that orphaned kids get health care. And that also includes getting vaccines to protect those that are more at risk. You may not remember a time before vaccines, but we have them and have programs to make sure nearly everyone gets them precisely because a huge number of people would die every year otherwise. Like HUGE in the hundreds of thousand to low millions every year if we had no vaccines.

But if you want to not participate in society, then go live under a rock out in the desert and don't enjoy all the services that we, the good members of society, provide to you too.
 
bflynn said:
Legally it is approval.

The FAA's advice on vaccines is to use common sense and I believe they think we can figure that out for ourselves. Obviously they overestimated some people.
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um, "common sense"... I don't care who you are, that there is funny.

Now back to the expired equine thwacking...
 
CharlieD3 said:
For the last time: "
Do Not Issue. AMEs should not issue airmen medical certificates to applicants who are using these classes of medications or medications."

Class 1blah
Class 2 blah
Class 3 blah
FDA (Food and Drug Administration) approved less than 12 months ago. The FAA requires at least one-year of post-marketing experience with a new drug before considering if for aeromedical certification purposes. New antibiotics, lipid-lowering drugs, and antihypertensive medications may be considered earlier than one year. Please contact the RFS or AMCD for guidance on specific applicants.
Class 5 blah"

And:
"
Do Not Fly. Airmen should not fly while using any of the medications in the Do Not Issue section above "

+++++++++++++

ANY medication that falls in the class of "FDA approved less than 12 months ago..." should not be used by an airman unless the FAA changes it's mind..
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Probably not for the last time, unless there's an answer this time, in what box on the med form do you disclose all your vaccinations?
 
Matthew Rogers said:
Because you choose to live in society - which by its definition means that you should do some tings for the greater good, like providing food to those that are in need, power to all homes, paying taxes so that orphaned kids get health care. And that also includes getting vaccines to protect those that are more at risk. \

But if you want to not participate in society, then go live under a rock out in the desert and don't enjoy all the services that we, the good members of society, provide to you too.
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Did you really just tell me that I DESERVE free food and power to my house? That's awesome. And where are these orphans coming from? Didn't abort them fast enough?

Of course, you don't mean what you wrote. Unless you did.

[Edit: quick math because you made me think of it. .15% of the 320million American citizens are orphans]
 
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Lindberg said:
Probably not for the last time, unless there's an answer this time, in what box on the med form do you disclose all your vaccinations?
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You don't disclose as you point out... But, we can debate what the heck FAA meant when they said don't take things that haven't been approved for over a year... Unless they say okee dokee.

Letter of the law? Spirit of the law? Who knows?
 
Ravioli said:
Did you really just tell me that I DESERVE free food and power to my house? That's awesome. And where are these orphans coming from? Didn't abort them fast enough?

Of course, you don't mean what you wrote. Unless you did.

[Edit: quick math because you made me think of it. .15% of the 320million American citizens are orphans]
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Let's look at it from an aviation perspective - do you pay directly for your weather broadcast? Do you pay for your radar services? Do you pay for the ADSB signal? Nope. Those are provided for free to everyone because we live in a connected society that has benefits for everyone involved.

So you are advocating for a society that is everyone for themselves? Screw the orphaned children and let them starve on the streets? Just drive the homeless out into the desert so they can die there?

You really just said that we should abort all the orphans? I am pro-choice and even to me that statement is obscene.

You get free food if you happen to be destitute (if - @Ravioli you are claiming to be destitute and "in need" then you deserve to get free food). You get basic medical care if you have no money. You get money to take care of yourself if you happen to become disabled and unable to work.

And yes, you are guaranteed that the electricity company will run wires to your property line (at least) to provide (the option to purchase) power, regardless of where you live. You don't have to pay extra because you live in a rural area and there are no wires down the public road (at least here in the great state of New York). If you decide to build your house 10 miles away from the public road on private property, then that is your decision and may have to run the wires down your driveway, but the power company is required to bring the wires to your property line by the government contract. That is what is called a benefit of living as part of a society that takes care of everyone "equally". You don't get free electricity, but you also don't have to run $100,000 of high voltage power lines and poles yourself.
 
bdtaz said:
"Free" or funded by taxpayers?
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Exactly, funded by taxpayers means that "everyone" is participating in providing these services and benefits to everyone else. And everyone gets the benefits without asking for them. If you get in the situation of being unemployed and homeless, there are services for you (not nearly enough). If the cause was your own stupidity, fine. If the cause was a global pandemic, fine. If the cause was that someone wanted to burn down your building because they thought you ran over their cat, fine. It doesn't matter.

That is the entire point behind social services and a lot of the benefits of society. There are drawbacks, but publicly funded vaccinations programs for children are one of the best and prevent widespread Measles outbreaks, in addition to helping to eliminate polio, smallpox, and largely eliminating childhood mortality from many diseases. Choosing to not participate means that the system does not work as well and everyone loses, a little bit.
 
Locked. Pending MC review.

Edit: The Thread will remain closed per MC vote and warnings have been issued to those who engaged in political debate.
 
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