Night time landing light failure

benyflyguy

benyflyguy

En-Route
Joined
Jan 1, 2018
Messages
3,755
Location
NEPA
Display Name
Display name:
benyflyguy
I did a buddy a favor and went to Williamsport to fly him back to see his mom in the hospital.
On way back landing light good. He visits... we head back to field, drive down runway to check for deer, couple of nice buck at the threshold. Then preflight hop back in and I basically back taxi the runway to again check for deer. Big problem at our field. I had landing light on during back taxi. Take off and drop him off at Williamsport( landing lift worked there) and head back.
On way back I practice the rnav to 10 as it was pretty much straight in and so a low- loud pass over runway to chase any deer and circle to land on 28. On the approach to 10 when I hit landing light, it’s out!! Cycle and check breaker, both inop.
So I circle to land and landed without landing light. Our field had lights but not that bright, was certainly something I have never done before.
Possible I could have roasted the light from having it on for extended period of time or just lucky night!
 
I take it this was not an LED light?
 
I was trained (and practiced) as a student for night landings without a light. Soft-field technique.
 
mscard88 said:
I train pilots to land without a landing light as part of night training for this exact reason, they do fail.
Click to expand...

Our landing lights aren’t terribly bright and it’s not an LED.
Makes sense to practice it as it’s really only going to fail when you need it.
Plus I’ve realized that I appreciate the runway lights all the way up when on longer approach or it’s night and need to locate the field. On very short final, like over the numbers, the brightness of the runway lights make it a bit harder to see the actual runway (especially without the landing light o_O)
Might start turning them down when I turn to final.
 
mscard88 said:
I train pilots to land without a landing light as part of night training for this exact reason, they do fail.
Click to expand...

It’s ideas like this that really make you shine.
 
I practiced it during my PPL training, and put it to use a few times in real life cause our airplane ate landing lights. Replaced it with an LED and it hasn't failed yet. LED landing lights are worth every penny, and ours has saved us money over the 4 years or so since we put it in.
 
Cptwing said:
And the FAA wants pilots to use the landing light during daytime hour TO & LNGs "Operation Lights On" and while flying below 10,000 all the time?
http://www.faraim.org/aim/aim-4-03-14-209.html (page 209 sec c)
Click to expand...

It's a very effective anti collision device. In the work airplane all our lights are on below FL180, and I leave the LED light on all the time in the 172.
 
My landing light switch is bonkers, I landed without the light, first time in years, and first time at my new home airport. Not what I would call a greaser, more like a bouncer. Anyway, we’re supposed to be able to land without the lights because the bulbs can burn out and you usually don’t find out until you’re landing at night.
 
benyflyguy said:
Possible I could have roasted the light from having it on for extended period of time or just lucky night!
Click to expand...
I did all my instrument and commercial training in an older C model Mooney I used to share with a guy. It had a single landing light in the nose right between that shaky engine and that shaky prop. I did a lot of my training in it after work in the evening and a lot of my personal flying in it at night. This was before the age of LED lights so I got real good at no light landings and real good at changing landing light bulbs.
 
Losing a landing light at night *should* be a non-event. My CFI’s made me land without it during primary night training. Really not much of a difference imo, as long as you have runway lights.
 
benyflyguy said:
I did a buddy a favor and went to Williamsport to fly him back to see his mom in the hospital.
On way back landing light good. He visits... we head back to field, drive down runway to check for deer, couple of nice buck at the threshold. Then preflight hop back in and I basically back taxi the runway to again check for deer. Big problem at our field. I had landing light on during back taxi. Take off and drop him off at Williamsport( landing lift worked there) and head back.
On way back I practice the rnav to 10 as it was pretty much straight in and so a low- loud pass over runway to chase any deer and circle to land on 28. On the approach to 10 when I hit landing light, it’s out!! Cycle and check breaker, both inop.
So I circle to land and landed without landing light. Our field had lights but not that bright, was certainly something I have never done before.
Possible I could have roasted the light from having it on for extended period of time or just lucky night!
Click to expand...

For this reason, I teach landing without lights. Its actually easier than it sounds. The nav lights work quite well, especially when you get close to the runway.
 
Also side note on landing lights and GA aircraft from someone who used to work on a ramp. If/when you fly to a larger airport at night and roll up on the ramp of the big $wanky FBO with the ramp guy guiding you with the fancy flashlight wands, turn off your landing and taxi light as soon as you see them and leave it off until they park you.

CFI's almost never teach this to their primary students so most GA pilots have no idea that ramp worker have rads and cones in their eyes too and they're the ones standing on the business end of that deadly prop so they maybe might want to have their night vision preserved instead of being blinded by you using your landing light to taxi across a ramp that already has plenty of light on it from overhead lighting.
 
mscard88 said:
I train pilots to land without a landing light as part of night training for this exact reason, they do fail.
Click to expand...
Exactly how I was trained and trained other pilots back in the day. I still practice night landings without the light, although I fly a lot less at night now.
 
I remember that fun practice. Let's do one with the landing light off. Now one with the runway lights off. Now one with both off. (there was a bright moon that night)

The girl I was seeing at the time was in the back seat. Each made her more and more nervous.

Then I'm given "Your engine just quit" (as he closes the throttle) "what are you going to do?" I said Land, He said show me.

We're rolling out and he says "looky there, it restarted. Now let's do one with the gear up. She yells "you f'ers are CRAZY, let me out."

hahhahahhaha
 
The incandescent landing lights are rated for a 25-hour life. I got as little as four hours out of them at the flight school, especially in those that were cowl-mounted where the engine vibration and prop blast shake the filament until it falls apart. The Whelen LEDs are rated for 1000 hours minimum, and will probably go well beyond that. Sure, they cost more, but in terms of hours per dollar spent on bulbs they're cheaper by a long shot, and that's not even counting the labor to replace one. Some of them are a pain to replace, too. Cowling has to come off and the whole lamp assembly taken apart.

And since their current draw so mush less, they're easier on switches and breakers, too.

Spend the bucks and reduce one more hassle and point of failure.
 
I fly mostly XC 60ish hours a year and do not believe the lights during the day have any meaningful recognition. I cannot think of one time where I saw the lights first, if at all! I think the reasoning is sound, but what evidence other than anecdotal is there to prove lights on during the day is effective?
 
Unit74 said:
I fly mostly XC 60ish hours a year and do not believe the lights during the day have any meaningful recognition. I cannot think of one time where I saw the lights first, if at all! I think the reasoning is sound, but what evidence other than anecdotal is there to prove lights on during the day is effective?
Click to expand...
I tend to agree.

Landing lights on big airliners can indeed make it easier to see during the day, but I have seen very little appreciable difference in being able to spot GA airplanes during the day with lights on.
 
If it's a bright night or the runway is well lit you may not need the light. Amusingly I'd come into Dulles and touch down and when I turned off on the taxiway I would think "somethings wrong." Oh yeah, for got to turn on the landing light. All kinds of lights on a CAT III runway but the taxiways are a bit dim.

I used to have the same feeling when I was an ambulance driver. You'd be heading down the road, siren blazing, all sorts of lights flashing all over the place and something isn't right... oh yeah, the headlights aren't on.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I tend to agree.

Landing lights on big airliners can indeed make it easier to see during the day, but I have seen very little appreciable difference in being able to spot GA airplanes during the day with lights on.
Click to expand...

Depends on the light of course. I have a very bright HID in the nose and triple big LEDs in each wingtip and I have had a lot of comments from tower controllers that they thought I was a biz jet on approach. They put out some serious lumens. Wig wag (or whatever they are called) also helps.
 
MetalCloud said:
I got LoPrestis installed. Not only do I not worry about failure, I’m scared I can’t log night landings anymore because they’re so effing bright!
Click to expand...

I have lopresiti boom bean too, but they were installed like 20 years back and they suck. Trying to figure out if I should change the lights or get LED. Any comparison between HID and LED?
 
Groundpounder said:
It's a very effective anti collision device. In the work airplane all our lights are on below FL180, and I leave the LED light on all the time in the 172.
Click to expand...
I have an incandescent nose light, it's on almost always,
 
I never use during the day. Only at home field at night as it gets dark. Going to check the logs and see when it was changed last. Maybe make a push for or club to put an LED in.
 
Flipped the landing light on, crossed the threshold and thought "huh, that runway is still REALLY dark!"...crap, landing light is out!...well. lets see how this goes!

The fun part was that I had just replaced my beacon with a super bright LED unit so about once a second I got a red flash of "there's the runway"...dark..."there's the runway"...dark..."there's the...

Not my smoothest landing ever but was a non event...and yes, light worked during preflight since I knew it was a night flight.

I now have a LED landing light!
 
Ours burned out so frequently that I got in the habit of landing without. I was flying with a friend in his plane and his was out (landing at now defunct ISZ) and he was freaking out. I told him he didn't really use it while landing anyway, as long as there are runway lights. He did fine, of course. It is a great anti-collision aid, but we had a genuine strobe on the tail.
 
WannFly said:
I have lopresiti boom bean too, but they were installed like 20 years back and they suck. Trying to figure out if I should change the lights or get LED. Any comparison between HID and LED?
Click to expand...
HIDs are brighter but MUCH hotter and more current draw.
Good video on the matter:
 
I want to see a 55W PAR36 LED pushed out. I mean, stupid effing bright. Like Je-zuhs man, WTF are you thinking bright! Yea, I'll buy it. I only have one light on my rig. I'll take all I can get..... But I ain't payin LoPresti that stupid amount a cash either. They are high.... literally on price and on drugs. But I'm sure they subscribe to the pilots are rich category given all their prices are effing ridiculous. I had a convo with a person at a fly in who used to work for them. Told her my issues with them and she agreed.
 
WannFly said:
I have lopresiti boom bean too, but they were installed like 20 years back and they suck. Trying to figure out if I should change the lights or get LED. Any comparison between HID and LED?
Click to expand...

A 20 year old LoPresti Boom Beam is going to look like a Bic lighter through a canvas sheet compared to the latest spec. LoPresti isn't necessarily cheap but the output of their modern lights is top notch in GA. I have the latest and my plane lights look about as good as my new Porsche headlights on high beams.
 
I often forget to turn it on; then it's just practice for it failing. Then again, I'm in a 172, so I'm over the fence at less than 60kts - not like everything is whizzing by.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Also side note on landing lights and GA aircraft from someone who used to work on a ramp. If/when you fly to a larger airport at night and roll up on the ramp of the big $wanky FBO with the ramp guy guiding you with the fancy flashlight wands, turn off your landing and taxi light as soon as you see them and leave it off until they park you.

CFI's almost never teach this to their primary students so most GA pilots have no idea that ramp worker have rads and cones in their eyes too and they're the ones standing on the business end of that deadly prop so they maybe might want to have their night vision preserved instead of being blinded by you using your landing light to taxi across a ramp that already has plenty of light on it from overhead lighting.
Click to expand...

+1000. Same goes for flipping all your lights on as you're sitting there programming your GPS for 10 min sitting in front of the FBO at night. I'm looking at you Cirrus pilots.....

Unit74 said:
I fly mostly XC 60ish hours a year and do not believe the lights during the day have any meaningful recognition. I cannot think of one time where I saw the lights first, if at all! I think the reasoning is sound, but what evidence other than anecdotal is there to prove lights on during the day is effective?
Click to expand...

I fly 300+ hours a year and I can tell you they are effective. Especially for seeing guys turning final on hazy days while you're holding short. There really is no compelling reason not to be lit up much as possible.
 
I said XC and the context in enroute based on the convo. In the patch, yes, when they are on final they work. Dd you have a comment on the enroute portion to make?

Groundpounder said:
+1000. Same goes for flipping all your lights on as you're sitting there programming your GPS for 10 min sitting in front of the FBO at night. I'm looking at you Cirrus pilots.....



I fly 300+ hours a year and I can tell you they are effective. Especially for seeing guys turning final on hazy days while you're holding short. There really is no compelling reason not to be lit up much as possible.
Click to expand...
 
Unit74 said:
I said XC and the context in enroute based on the convo. In the patch, yes, when they are on final they work. Dd you have a comment on the enroute portion to make?
Click to expand...

Depends. If you have a single incandescent bulb in the nose, it's not that great, but if you have recog lights in the wing tips, especially pulse lights, they are very effective. Even more so if they are HID or LED.
 
Based on the Avweb demo, it looks to me like the LED is good for taxiing, and the HID is best for takeoffs and landings.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top