Night landing at unlit field...

bjohnson said:
If I had a FLIR System or Night Vision I might try it.
Click to expand...

What ?!!?!? Your new Mooney doesn't have that ? :goofy:


As for me, the only time I've made a landing to an unlit field is when the PCL went out on me on very short final. To be honest, I can't find them without the lights unless it's a full moon. :yes:
 
Ron Levy said:
It would be interesting to correlate willingness to make a non-emergency night landing (that's a true night landing in the dark, not a 30-minutes-after-sundown pinkie landing) on an unlit runway with pilot age and total flight experience (both hours and years of flying).
Click to expand...

And it might surprise you.

Tempest in a teapot.
 
Never done it, and I doubt I would unless I'd landed there in daylight or had a local pilot sitting next to me. :D

Be careful.
 
A couple months ago I approached my fuel stop at night. It was in a mtn valley and a very black hole. A 210 had landed minutes before me so the PCL was illuminated. I "knew" time would run out by the time I needed them so I reactivated the lights. Not like that hasn't happened before....

The lights turned off and would not activate. The 210 driver was still on freq and tried himself but nothing and he was based there. I was determined to land and having been at that aprt before I was assured of some modicum of success. Really, the plane didn't know it couldn't see the rwy. I could see the lighted segmented circle and the light at the fuel pumps.

I landed as typical. (save the wise cracks) Taxiing out I couldn't get the PCL to come up. I normally prodigiously plan any night departure but this time I checked and rechecked. Then I double checked.

I took the rwy, centerline frozen in my landing light, and started the roll. I was nearly at rotation when my landing light blinked out. I did the only rational thing which was to continue the departure. I climbed out as expected and continued out of the black hole. Landing at the final destination was easy enough. Over the years, every now and then I practice no-light night landings.

One reason why is because I never did one during all of my training. What are the odds that you'll lose your lights? What are the odds that it'll happen on a moonless night in a black hole with the addition of inop PCL? I had it stacked against me that night.

Would I do it again? Depends although I try to avoid the corner of the box.
 
Flyfishingpilot said:
Thanks for the feedbacks... as for specifics:
Plane is a Cherokee 140/160
3120ft turf runway, 140 ft wide, reasonably maintained
No real lights nearby.
60 ft plus trees on either ends
as to why..hangar space is at a premium. This location is only $300/month. I would fly when the moon is visible...2 people (about 300lb total)
Click to expand...

The trees would be the most significant concern IMO. In full moonlight you could probably see them quite well, but if it's sufficiently dark you wouldn't have much reference for avoiding them on landing.

If you're planning on being based at this unlit airstrip, you might consider pitching in on a set of runway edge reflectors and some kind of end lights. I don't think the cost would be all that high. Seems like I saw something about inexpensive solar runway lights recently but I don't remember where.

WRT to the question about takeoffs in the dark, in most planes once you've rotated there's not much to see on a truly dark night even if there are runway lights.
 
lancefisher said:
WRT to the question about takeoffs in the dark, in most planes once you've rotated there's not much to see on a truly dark night even if there are runway lights.
Click to expand...
That's been my experience. In low traffic situations I ususally even turn off the landing light once I'm above 100' AGL (and clear of known obsticles). I, however, have been fortunate enough to have only done night ops at airports where I've gone first in daylight...

As for landing at night at an unlit field... at my experience level I don't think I'd ever consider it... Not worth the risks, imo.
 
Last edited:
Re: THREAD CREEP Night takeoff at unlit field...

Skip Miller said:
OK, how does the crowd feel about a takeoff from an unlit field? Say the Field is unattended, the PCL is not functional, the CTAF is silent, and you have backtaxied the full length to search for deer etc. And your landing light is working.

Would you do it?

Two options: paved runway with a centerline, and turf runway.

-Skip
Click to expand...
I took off on the unlit runway with a centerline because the winds were HOWLING from the south so I wanted 24. It did occur to me that if needed to get back I would be dealing with the enormous crosswind on 27.

I had just watched a plane wrestle with that - going around once while he was being blown almost into me standing north of the runway.

The runway lighting isn't that great anyway.
 
lancefisher said:
WRT to the question about takeoffs in the dark, in most planes once you've rotated there's not much to see on a truly dark night even if there are runway lights.
Click to expand...

True. I was more referring to the fact that there are some airports, lit or unlit, that I wouldn't want to depart at night. So if the airport requires some nonstandard departure procedure that requires some maneuvering during the day--you want to remember that at night.

3M0 sort of demonstrates this. Although some airplanes would be worse then others for a night departure. My biggest problem with it is the fact that the trees at the end of the runway are the same color as the ridge. So you can't tell the difference between the two and I imagine distance perception is terrible as well.
 
Last edited:
It takes some practice to get good with night vision. There is a complete lack of depth perception which has killed many aviators.
 
jesse said:
It takes some practice to get good with night vision. There is a complete lack of depth perception which has killed many aviators.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say complete lack, you just have to know how to correctly process the visual inputs. It is a whole different monster.
 
Patch said:
Yup! That would be my criteria as well: NVGs, Covert Lighting, a HUD and Radar Altimeter.
Click to expand...
Well as you gain experience maybe one day in the future you will not need to use all that technology as a crutch when you fly. ;)

BTW long time ago I did a few blackout night ops as crew on a Blackhawk in a joint service exercise at Fort Hunter Liget, and without the NVGs on it was a truly eerie experience.
 
smigaldi said:
Well as you gain experience maybe one day in the future you will not need to use all that technology as a crutch when you fly. ;)

BTW long time ago I did a few blackout night ops as crew on a Blackhawk in a joint service exercise at Fort Hunter Liget, and without the NVGs on it was a truly eerie experience.
Click to expand...
Hunter Liggett is just over the mountain from my home. It's an awesome playground for mil and civ alike. Sorry, it's classified how we did what we did on base. Good hunting there.
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
I like, really like, a big landing light in the backcountry type darkness. Two of them, with near and far aiming points is even better.
Click to expand...
Dave Im with you I have FOUR Par 36 landing lites for a total of one KW of lite on my 170 which I land at nite at the Saline Valley Hot springs See a pic of my lites at Airports AJO Bob
 
c170bm said:
Dave Im with you I have FOUR Par 36 landing lites for a total of one KW of lite on my 170 which I land at nite at the Saline Valley Hot springs See a pic of my lites at Airports AJO Bob
Click to expand...

I can't seem to link up with what you gave me above, can you give a link? I'm about ready to hook up a xenon landing light on this amphib but will be looking for another good big one for redundancy.
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
I can't seem to link up with what you gave me above, can you give a link? I'm about ready to hook up a xenon landing light on this amphib but will be looking for another good big one for redundancyhttp://home.earthlink.net/~n6d/ http://home.earthlink.net/~n6d/ there is my url to my Page enjoy and turn on your speakers also look for PAR 45 if you want a BIG LITE ass long as you have a HUGE alternator my e-mail is N6D @ AOL.COM
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
c170bm said:
Dave Krall CFII said:
I can't seem to link up with what you gave me above, can you give a link? I'm about ready to hook up a xenon landing light on this amphib but will be looking for another good big one for redundancyhttp://home.earthlink.net/~n6d/ http://home.earthlink.net/~n6d/ there is my url to my Page enjoy and turn on your speakers also look for PAR 45 if you want a BIG LITE ass long as you have a HUGE alternator my e-mail is N6D @ AOL.COM
Click to expand...

Bob I can't find any mention of landing lights PAR-45 or not following that link. I chased almost every link on the page you referred to (more than half were broken) and never found anything about landing lights.

BTW, XeVision sells a 50W HID PAR-36 lamp that puts out about 5 times the light of my original 250 watt lamps and that wouldn't require a huge alternator and associated heavy wiring. I replaced both in-wing landing lights with those and the difference is quite noticeable.

http://xevision.com
Click to expand...
 
c170bm said:
Dave Krall CFII said:
I can't seem to link up with what you gave me above, can you give a link? I'm about ready to hook up a xenon landing light on this amphib but will be looking for another good big one for redundancyhttp://home.earthlink.net/~n6d/ http://home.earthlink.net/~n6d/ there is my url to my Page enjoy and turn on your speakers also look for PAR 45 if you want a BIG LITE ass long as you have a HUGE alternator my e-mail is N6D @ AOL.COM
Click to expand...

Nice website, thanks.
That twin SeaBee reminds me of the amphib one I started flying with here in Seattle, it was great to have the twins, and built like a tank!
Click to expand...
 
This has been a great discussion. I haven't had time to read the forums lately, so I've just now caught this thread, and I thought I had something to contribute. :eek:

I have a few unlit fields I fly into and out of during dark hours on a routine basis (1-4 times/month). That makes me an expert. :hairraise:

I like Ed's analogy to jumping from the high-dive. I wouldn't call it a non-event, but it's certainly not nerve-wracking once you've done it a time or two. (Only at an airfield you know.)

A GOOD STRONG landing light is a MUST. Without it, I'd never even try (save emergency conditions; but then, you've no choice). A GPS (or two) showing the actual runway is a great aid - you'll know your approach is on centerline, and you'll know where the runway ends are. Zoom in to about 1/4 mile. You can/should see the runway in the windscreen from about 250 feet away. (If not CAVU at this level, nogo.) Make a low approach to clear the varmints, first, and to check your altimeter. Plan on landing long, because you don't want to descend that last couple of hundred feet until you know the runway is below you. (AND you've cleared any obstacles...) Have a STOL plane that can get down and stop in a few hundred feet.

So, while it certainly is a greater workload, it's no moreso than doing an IFR procedure.

As for takeoff: Taxi the length first to clear the critters, then have an airplane that'll get higher than the obstacles at less than half the distance to them, and it's a piece of cake. Otherwise, have a headlight that'll show them to you well enough to be safe. Know the Departure procedure (track and altitudes) if you're in between hills/obstacles. GPS helps greatly. Think of it as IMC-lite and pay "enough" attention to the instruments. You judge how much is enough.

If a risk cannot be mitigated to one's comfort level, It's a nogo for that guy; that's what makes one PIC.
 
I would say the only trick would be landing safely......:D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top