Night flight.. your thoughts?

VTC_WS6

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VTC_WS6
Prepping to take a nice flight to Orlando with the wife, but because of the time change it's inevitable that any 'after work' trip from Naples will occur well into the dark. Now of my 110+hrs, only maybe 6-8 are in true night, not that it's ever been a problem for me, but I was just wondering what your biggest night flight trepidations are/were? How did you tackle them and what if any would your tips be? ;)
 
IMC.

All you can do is wait for good weather and at least a few degrees dewpoint spread at the destination.
 
IMC.

All you can do is wait for good weather and at least a few degrees dewpoint spread at the destination.


Well, as far as visual is concerned, weather is severe clear.
 
With 110hrs, make sure you have good landing and instrument lights, if the plane has a good working 6 pack that would be good, also be sure you have good situational awareness (range, bearing to nearest airport), be sure you could handle the plane at night if your electrical goes t/u, bring a head lamp red glitters flashlight and another backup flashlight.
 
Prepping to take a nice flight to Orlando with the wife, but because of the time change it's inevitable that any 'after work' trip from Naples will occur well into the dark. Now of my 110+hrs, only maybe 6-8 are in true night, not that it's ever been a problem for me, but I was just wondering what your biggest night flight trepidations are/were? How did you tackle them and what if any would your tips be? ;)


If the weather is clear , a night flight up to the Orlando area should be a piece of cake. You have I-75 to follow so you will have a basic lighted horizon for keeping the wings level.. Several airports along the way to use in case of a mechanical issue. Highest thing to hit is Bach Tower in the Lake Wales area.... Other then going too far east and getting into the Avon park MOA, the route should be straight forward and fun to do.

Enjoy....

I love night flights..:yes::wink2:
 
My biggest night trepidation is that I'm afraid of the dark...

... if the engine quits.

Heh heh.
 
If you have time before your trip, practice a few night touch and goes. This will go a long way in improving proficiency and is a great confidence builder knowing you can make a safe night landing.

For optimal spatial orientation prior to touchdown remember to look well beyond the engine cowling down the runway with sideward glances as you flare.
 
Also not a bad idea to practice a few landings with the landing light off...that way, should that fail on you on approach during a night flight, you've got the confidence that it's not too big of a deal.
 
Also not a bad idea to practice a few landings with the landing light off...that way, should that fail on you on approach during a night flight, you've got the confidence that it's not too big of a deal.
Happened to me the other night doing a night intro flight with a student. Both landing and taxi lights. Oh well.

Anyway. You should have no problems. My biggest fear or challenge to impart to others is just check you weather well. Make sure you don't just run into or over a layer of clouds. Its real easy to do at night when you don't have a lot of time. The biggest problem I think is limiting your suitable landing areas at night if you need to do so.
 
Just fly it. It will prove to be pretty easy when all is said and done.
 
Just fly it. It will prove to be pretty easy when all is said and done.
Agreed with this and with the fog thing. Obviously file a flight plan and get flight following for the whole trip. For me, these flights are always easier than I expected =)
 
You flyng into KISM. I was nervous about my first night x country.
I made sure I could identify the major roads at night. I looked for rotating beacos of airports close to my way points.
I was way more stessed than needed, but glad I was.:yes:
 
If you're VFR like me I'm guessing a possible return route would be the VOR to Lakeland then VOR down to PGD or Labelle. The area south of Lakeland - via Wacula and Arcadia - is dark. Very few visual cues. (see chart) You might be on instruments awhile unless you choose a high alitude there. (I mean, don't go thru there at 3,000 ft like I did.) Or perhaps from the Lakeland/Plant City area get closer to the coast so you'll have lights from Sarasota and Venice along one side of you.
 
Since I'm no longer comfortable with not seeing emergency landing spots, I rarely fly at night any more. I do miss it thought. It is awesome.
 
Just got home from doing some nite flying at KPGD. I try to fly at nite at least once a month. For me the hard part is the landing, they just are not as pretty as my day landings. Usually, I will do two or three trips around the pattern to a stop and go and then leave the pattern and do my flight. As for black holes, if you stay on the coast and then venture inland north of I4 you should avoid most of the black holes. Northeast of PGD is fairly dark except for the occasional town. When I fly at night I make sure my trim control is very precise before leaving for the cross country. I find it much harder to estimate altitude during the night than during the day. I do check my altimeter more frequently. I fyou have not done a long nit cross country, you may want to try a small jump, maybe to PGD or SRQ before going to KISM to get comfortable.

Also double check everything. I keep at least three flashlights in the plane as well.

Have fun.

Doug
 
Since I'm no longer comfortable with not seeing emergency landing spots, I rarely fly at night any more. I do miss it thought. It is awesome.

You can mitigate that somewhat by flying higher and purposefully planning routes that cross over airports and altitudes that keep you within gliding distance of them. Can even click the lights on as you go by if you like.
 
You can mitigate that somewhat by flying higher and purposefully planning routes that cross over airports and altitudes that keep you within gliding distance of them. Can even click the lights on as you go by if you like.
plan a flight direct from central IL to the florida panhandle and see if that works
 
I'm assuming at 110 hrs you are still VFR, but it should be a non-event. Stretching your experience envelope is what flying is all about. There are plenty of alternates along the way. Use following and it will be a nice relaxed trip. (OBTW that big black area on your right is NOT an alternate. :nonod: )
 
I have flown FMY-ISM @ night and it was when I had around 100 hrs as well. Landing light decided not to work (worked during preflight) so taxiing at ISM was interesting but landing was uneventful. Kissimmee jet center had a rental car waiting for me and their prices are lower than signature. They actually 'valet' the plane for you there and it was free or very reasonable if you bought fuel.

With clear wx that is a good night cross country, and at least you don't have to worry about any terrain. Remember to check the phase of the moon. Central florida can get pretty dark! At night I always use flight following.

I miss flying to x01, just south of you.
 
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Flying at night in Florida is fun, at least to me. I would fly from Ft. Lauderdale or Miami up through the Everglades to the Lakeland VOR, the to KOCF semi regularly. I usually flew at the 5,000 - 6,000 range, and enjoyed the view, plus it gave me gliding distance to several airports.

I wouldn't think there should be much to worry about flying from Naples to the Orlando area. The MOA will most likely be inactive at night, so that should allow you a more direct route.

Fly safe, fly smart, have fun.
 
Flying at night in Florida is fun, at least to me. I would fly from Ft. Lauderdale or Miami up through the Everglades to the Lakeland VOR, the to KOCF semi regularly. I usually flew at the 5,000 - 6,000 range, and enjoyed the view, plus it gave me gliding distance to several airports.

I wouldn't think there should be much to worry about flying from Naples to the Orlando area. The MOA will most likely be inactive at night, so that should allow you a more direct route.

Fly safe, fly smart, have fun.

Always check. As odd as it may seem the military does fly at night. :D I seemed to get a lot of business in the dark.
 
plan a flight direct from central IL to the florida panhandle and see if that works

Was that supposed to be a challenge? :)

KARR JOT V171 EON V171 TTH V243 BWG BNA DCU GAD HEFIN LGC V168 RRS HOUND KECP

The vast majority of that route is within 15 NM of an instrument approach equipped airport the entire way. (I used the IFR Low chart.)

To glide 15 NM at an 8:1 glide ratio, you need to be at roughly 11,500' AGL. Most of the route the terrain is less than 1000' so, you're at 13,500' MSL, VFR eastbound.

It's doable. Even in a bugsmasher. Or real close, anyway. Most bugsmashers will struggle to get up there, but on the assumed route, the exposure at low altitude is at departure, and there's more airports in Illinois, so picking the fuel stop becomes the trick.

Bring O2. Especially at night. ;)

Now, to make the altitude a bit more sane, if you believe you'll have a few minutes of partial power before a complete engine failure and can live with only a 12 NM glide range at 8:1... You need 9000' AGL.

If its a full moon night, that risk may be fully acceptable along some of that route. There's probably other stuff to land on in a single. Crap shoot.

Adjust for better or worse glide ratios and how well you personally can hold best glide speed, as well as how fast you'll react to push the Nearest To button and turn, even if the nearest airport is behind you.

This was just a quick look in Foreflight in five minutes, and by no means a valid flight plan. Didn't account for airspace, or runway length, or anything other than a flyable route that remained within about 15 miles of an airport the whole way there. It zigs and zags, and could be better.

With a good GPS and a backup on board, you could literally plan it out, airport to airport direct, VFR, and probably have ten to fifteen minutes of total off-airport landing *required* exposure, if you climb up high enough. That isn't bad exposure for a night flight in a single, really.

Never forget we operate in three dimensions. At night, altitude is life. The terrain for that flight is helpful compared to terrain out here. Know Thy Glide Ratio. ;) (I also really didn't pad it very much here but you need some altitude to get turned to final, blah blah. If you really work hard at planning it, you could raise all the airports by 1000' AGL for the glide planning for each airport-to-airport leg.

You should have said from Denver to Florida, then I have a big performance problem to get to 9000' AGL at the departure end -- and a longer exposure crossing the barren eastern plains. Luckily Kansas is littered with airports, due to its proximity to all the manufacturers, so as the terrain works on dropping away, I also get closely spaced airports. There's also not much to hit if you have to land but cows. :)

It's all about how much risk you'll accept. But you can plan that flight, as you requested. Just gotta go *up*. ;)
 
I haven't had a chance to say this in a while, but I think its time:

Night VFR is the safest flying possible to a private pilot. The potential risks that are unique are offset by the increases in collision avoidance, ease of airport location, ease if of PAPI and VASI use and increased performance of the airplane.
 
Flying at night in Florida is fun, at least to me. I would fly from Ft. Lauderdale or Miami up through the Everglades to the Lakeland VOR, the to KOCF semi regularly. I usually flew at the 5,000 - 6,000 range, and enjoyed the view, plus it gave me gliding distance to several airports.

I wouldn't think there should be much to worry about flying from Naples to the Orlando area. The MOA will most likely be inactive at night, so that should allow you a more direct route.

Fly safe, fly smart, have fun.
Using flight following will confirm whether they are active.

Doug
 
Was that supposed to be a challenge? :)

...Deleted hypothetical unworkable idea...

It's all about how much risk you'll accept. But you can plan that flight, as you requested. Just gotta go *up*. ;)
or just hand another engine on the other wing
 
plan a flight direct from central IL to the florida panhandle and see if that works

Well, I've done a night flight from St. Petersburg to Chicago. I'll admit, though, that it was IFR, and that this makes a difference.

My first (and hopefully only) incident of VFR into IMC was a night flight from NE Michigan to the Chicago area. North of South Bend near the coast of Lake Michigan we saw clouds ahead and below us. We could tell because the ground lights in the area kind of disappeared. We were getting traffic advisories and were on autopilot in a 172 with three aboard, and had started a descent to an altitude that should get us below the bases based on the ASOS reports from nearby airports. Nevertheless, we found that our rate of descent was insufficient to avoid the clouds. We entered them, and I turned off the strobes to avoid the flashback we were getting. I considered increasing the rate of descent, but decided that the fewer changes we made, even if on autopilot, the better. We descended safely out of the bottom of the clouds without incident. The only change I'd make, other than starting the descent earlier with a greater rate, would be notifying South Bend Approach that we were IMC. We were already talking to them, so knew there was no one in our area, but still...
 
We were already talking to them, so knew there was no one in our area, but still...
Just because you're getting radar advisories doesn't mean ATC will always alert you to nearby traffic. I don't know if it's because ATC wasn't getting a primary return, if it was masked by other info on their screen, they were too busy to call, or what, but there have been plenty of times when I've seen traffic near enough to me that I'd have expected an alert but I didn't get one.
 
"Talking to them" means you have a chance they'll alert you. There is zero requirement for them to separate you from other non-participating traffic. Get the idea that talking to them is a guarantee of service, out of your head. You got lucky.
 
"Talking to them" means you have a chance they'll alert you. There is zero requirement for them to separate you from other non-participating traffic. Get the idea that talking to them is a guarantee of service, out of your head. You got lucky.
Also correct me if I am wrong, but certain crafts without transponders may also be invisible to them. I am thinking more in the line of ultralights and the like. Not sure if they can see small GA aircraft without transponders or with them turned off. I would suspect they can see them but not identify them. I know they would not be flying at night and should not be flying in IMC conditions, but weirdness happens, and we spend more time in VMC than IMC anyway.
 
Just because you're getting radar advisories doesn't mean ATC will always alert you to nearby traffic. I don't know if it's because ATC wasn't getting a primary return, if it was masked by other info on their screen, they were too busy to call, or what, but there have been plenty of times when I've seen traffic near enough to me that I'd have expected an alert but I didn't get one.

"Talking to them" means you have a chance they'll alert you. There is zero requirement for them to separate you from other non-participating traffic. Get the idea that talking to them is a guarantee of service, out of your head. You got lucky.

Sorry, I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought, even back then, that being on VFR advisories is the same as receiving IFR separation. No, there was no guarantee of service, and yes, I got lucky. "Talking to them" also means that you're on their frequency and have an idea both of their workload and other traffic in the area to whom they're talking.

The workload wasn't high. It also let me know that they weren't calling me out to any IFR traffic. So it is still worthwhile and can give the pilot additional information. You're right, though. I didn't know there was no other traffic in the area; that was hyperbole. Heck, I don't even know that when I'm IFR!

Was I happy to be in the situation I was in? Heck no, and I was taking active measures to extricate myself. But in a situation like that, you want everything you can to help you out. That's why I said that I should have informed ATC we were IMC.
 
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Fair 'nuff. The bad weather probably meant you were in a relatively low traffic density environment that day too. :)
 
Fair 'nuff. The bad weather probably meant you were in a relatively low traffic density environment that day too. :)
It actually wasn't really bad weather. IIRC, there was a scattered or broken layer around 4500' starting near the south end of Lake Michigan, and clear to the north, where we were coming from.
 
Just want to thank everybody for the input, FWIW I've planned this trip in a couple of weeks, pretty much reaffirmed everything I'd belived up to this point, guess I just needed to hear it from some other folks. Talked to me CFI about it, he agreee's, should be a breeze for me especially since I'm always on with flight following for my trips to the Keys, Miami etc.. Looking forward to it!
 
Also not a bad idea to practice a few landings with the landing light off...that way, should that fail on you on approach during a night flight, you've got the confidence that it's not too big of a deal.

I put an LED landing light in my cowl. Maybe not quite as bright as incandescent but it will always work. Landing lights are notorious for going out when you need them.
 
Prepping to take a nice flight to Orlando with the wife, but because of the time change it's inevitable that any 'after work' trip from Naples will occur well into the dark. Now of my 110+hrs, only maybe 6-8 are in true night, not that it's ever been a problem for me, but I was just wondering what your biggest night flight trepidations are/were? How did you tackle them and what if any would your tips be? ;)

Moon and cloud cover make a big difference in this. A nice bright full moon night reflecting off a few puffy clouds, no worries. Dark moonless night with broken skies reported, not so much, then it's time for IFR.
 
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