Newest Foreflight Q+A thread (hint)

jesse said:
Not really possible with what Apple will permit a developer to do. There are also lots of problems with that. The updates are big, and whatever "signal" the device suddenly may have could cost the user a considerable amount of money. Best to leave this up to the user.
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Absolutely! "Always notify and auto-download all charts as soon as they're available? (Y/N)" sounds like the perfect amount of control for me. :)
 
jason said:
I don't think SIDs and STARs are to any reliable scale. How do you georef something that isn't to scale?
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Someone said that FF on the iPad geo-refs you on the approach plates themselves. Is that not the case?
 
bluesky74656 said:
I've been told that modern cell phones don't work on 800Mhz, and therefore aren't subject to the ban.

A quick Wiki search shows that iDen is the only thing on the 800Mhz band, while current CDMA is a bit above that.
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You have been told wrong.

The 800MHz band is still a place where celphones operate. They also operate on other bands now. But anything that operates in 800MHz is subject to part 22 of the FCC regulation and the ban on inflight use is still in effect.

Part 22 Subpart H is the applicable part and the band that is affected by the section on airborne prohibition is
The following frequency bands are allocated for assignment to
service providers in the Cellular Radiotelephone Service.
(a) Channel Block A: 869-880 MHz paired with 824-835 MHz, and 890-
891.5 MHz paired with 845-846.5 MHz.
(b) Channel Block B: 880-890 MHz paired with 835-845 MHz, and 891.5-
894 MHz paired with 846.5-849 MHz.

iDen is not a Part 22 Subpart H technology. It is subject to the rule concerning
SMR. iDen operates in 806-821/821-825. I never have worked in detail with iDen and am really not
familiar with their regulations. Tehy could have the airborne ban. I limit my comments to those
cellphone that operate above 1.9GHz and are covered under FCC Part 24. Those I know do
not have the ban in the reg.

I personally attempted to get that ban removed. Verizon and SBC (now AT&T) stated that they were open to it if my company would "guarantee" that no interference would result from the removal of that section. Of course no one can make such a guarantee and I had another section, on analog support, that I wanted out of there more. So it remains.

For 1.9MHz and 2.5GHz there is no such section in the rules that govern cellphones in those bands.

BTW there is talk about updating Part 22 again. The thing is so way out of alignment with technology that is deployed that it is not even funny. The talk* is to focus it more on interference mitigation and get out of the technology description focus. There is no talk of pulling the airborne use section. But if there is a chance I will try again.
 
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jesse said:
Which is not illegal with modern cell phones. You'll have to talk to the radio guys for the exact FCC regulation and what it applies to.
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Not exactly true at all.

22.925 is still in effect

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2010/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm

The trick is that it only applies when operating in the 800MHz band

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2010/octqtr/47cfr22.905.htm

So phones that are on the Sprint, US Cellular network are fine. Phones that are on Verizon, AT&T may be in 800MHz or they may be in one of the other bands. You as a user have no real way to tell. Which is why the rule is pretty stupid to still have on the books since it is non existant for any other band.
 
ScottM said:
Not exactly true at all.

22.925 is still in effect

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2010/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm

The trick is that it only applies when operating in the 800MHz band

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2010/octqtr/47cfr22.905.htm

So phones that are on the Sprint, US Cellular network are fine. Phones that are on Verizon, AT&T may be in 800MHz or they may be in one of the other bands. You as a user have no real way to tell. Which is why the rule is pretty stupid to still have on the books since it is non existant for any other band.
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So my Verizon Droid Incredible will freely switch between 800Mhz, 1.9Ghz, and 2.5Ghz depending on which tower it's connected to? Or is each phone hard-wired to one band, and we just don't know which band that is?
 
bluesky74656 said:
So my Verizon Droid Incredible will freely switch between 800Mhz, 1.9Ghz, and 2.5Ghz depending on which tower it's connected to? Or is each phone hard-wired to one band, and we just don't know which band that is?
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Well not quite.

Each cellular carrier gets a license for a BTA or MTA that dictates the spectrum assignment. They could have one market with 800Mhz another with 1.9GHz and your phone would operate on the proper market based on preferences of the carrier that your subscription is with. Phones today are very much multiband and multi-mode.

There are phones that can and do operate on several bands 800Mhz/1.9Ghz/1.8GHz/900Mhz and use CDMA, GSM, EDGE, UMTS, 1xEV-DO all in the same piece of equipment.

How they 'decide' to use their bands and modes are up to operator that is selling the piece of equipment and how they programmed the phone. For instance Sprint sells a world phone that has a SIM card in it for GSM/UMTS operation overseas. AT&T and T-Mobile have those systems in the US but the phone is programmed to never roam on their networks. If you tried it would simply only allow emergency calls. The phone will want to swtich to CDMA mode and utilize the Sprint networks. Verizon and the other carriers do exactly the same thing so that the phones operated in preferred modes in preferred bands for that carriers business model.
 
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Mike I said:
Seems you've just got a bit of an anti-Apple attitude.
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I'm not getting that from Bill at all. I think he has decided he has no use for anything other than ForeFlight on the iPad, which changes the equation.

OTOH, Bill, I think you'll find that you get a lot more use out of the iPad than you'll predict. Even though I expected I'd get a lot out of it to begin with, it STILL eclipsed my expectations.

wsuffa said:
What I have is an attitude against companies - and if Apple happens to be one, then so be it - that construct software and systems that get in the way of doing things the way *I* want to work.
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Ironically, Apple's design philosophy is that the device and the UI should be so unobtrusive that they become transparent and you don't even notice them, allowing your interactions to be geared toward the task you're trying to complete rather than the operation of the device.

I realize this has started a religious war with you, Kent, and others. I also realize that you guys won't really understand my points. So be it.
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It's not a religious war for me, and it never has been. And yes, I do understand your points. While I tend to be very pro-Apple, their products do not work for every person or every situation - What usually gets me going is the blatant misinformation that's spouted by the vehemently anti-Apple crowd. You seem to me to be in the middle group, those who don't give a damn what logo is on the box as long as it does the job you bought it to do.

Now, here's what I don't get, Bill - You say:

I really wouldn't use much of the other iPad features
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So, you would mainly be getting it to use ForeFlight, but then you ask for

(unlocked 3G that will accept non-ATT SIMS would certainly be something I'd consider)
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and

ability to run OpenVPN without a jailbreak.
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which have nothing at all to do with ForeFlight - You're not flying internationally, right? And ForeFlight isn't ever going to need access to a VPN...

Now, looking at your entire "ideal package":

The ideal package for me: an iPad (or equivalent) to run Foreflight or a similar package, that has a usable BT/USB connection for the WxWorx or SkyRadar receiver, GPS with the wifi unit (unlocked 3G that will accept non-ATT SIMS would certainly be something I'd consider), native ability to print directly to networked Postscript printer (IOW, no need to buy an app, no need to buy another printer, or no need to use another computer just to print), and ability to run OpenVPN without a jailbreak. That I would buy in a heartbeat.
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It seems what you're wanting is a portable GPS, an EFB, and a full-on laptop all in one package. :dunno:

BTW, the SkyRadar *DOES* have a "usable BT connection" to the iPad. I looked at a few different things at OSH, both SkyRadar and NavWorx will connect to the iPad to provide an ADS-B In connection, and there's a third one whose name escapes me that's an aircraft-mounted ADS-B In/Out with a little WiFi module to connect the iPad.

GPS on the WiFi unit: Agreed, that'd be nice. I think the reason it's not there is that without the assistance of the 3G network to improve the TTFF, the choice becomes either a long TTFF (bad user experience) or vastly shortened battery life (also bad user experience). IMO, they should sell all the iPads as WiFi + 3G at the price of the WiFi-only models and simply emphasize that a 3G connection is optional. There's no way the 3G/GPS chip from Broadcom costs anywhere near $130 (in fact, I would be really surprised if it's even $1.30). Unfortunately, I think the carriers would be REALLY mad if Apple told the world that you didn't NEED a 3G service plan on the 3G model iPads, so this one may be a political problem as much as anything. :dunno:

Printing: Agreed again. Tying printing to HP's proprietary AirPrint system is not smart - That leaves the user with very limited printing options. I think this might be "fixed" in iOS 5? But:

Those still require printing through another computer. What I want to do is sit in my kitchen before leaving for the airport and printing on my network printer
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Don't you have a computer on your home network? Solutions like Printopia do not require you to actually plug the iPad into the computer. You're still printing wirelessly, it's just going through a computer on the WiFi network instead of directly to the printer.
 
wsuffa said:
Those still require printing through another computer. What I want to do is sit in my kitchen before leaving for the airport and printing on my network printer a "trip pack" that includes flight plan log, filed IFR plan, select approach plates, and a couple of other miscellaneous items. Essentially enough that if the iPad overheats or craps out in flight that I've got enough data to execute an approach and land.
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Why have Foreflight at all if you want paper for all of that?

The chance that both my iPad and iPhone will crap out on me on one flight is approximately the same as all of my paper charts and flight plans being sucked out a window at the same time. Virtually nil.

By the way the print hack for Windows that Kent posted above works very well for me. I mostly leave my desktop machine on all the time anyhow.
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
I'm not getting that from Bill at all. I think he has decided he has no use for anything other than ForeFlight on the iPad, which changes the equation.

OTOH, Bill, I think you'll find that you get a lot more use out of the iPad than you'll predict. Even though I expected I'd get a lot out of it to begin with, it STILL eclipsed my expectations.
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Well, let's clarify.

There is no reason for me to buy the iPad except to get Foreflight. I already own a fairly recent netbook, an older tablet computer (which has been my cockpit device), and an android phone. I happen to like what FF will do, but FF is not supported on other platforms. Ergo, if I want FF, I am bound to buy an iPad.

Making the assumption, then, that I must buy an iPad, and given that the cost to do so is substantially greater than purchasing a tablet or computer with another option, I want something that can meet forseen or unforseen requirements into the future. I've been around technology long enough to know that one needs to buy for possible future requirements, rather than "now needs".

Ironically, Apple's design philosophy is that the device and the UI should be so unobtrusive that they become transparent and you don't even notice them, allowing your interactions to be geared toward the task you're trying to complete rather than the operation of the device.
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Unfortunately, it's not just a UI matter. It's a "supported requirements" issue.

Printing is one example, corporate web access support is another. Flash is yet another. Without those, it can't replace the netbook.

It's not a religious war for me, and it never has been. And yes, I do understand your points. While I tend to be very pro-Apple, their products do not work for every person or every situation - What usually gets me going is the blatant misinformation that's spouted by the vehemently anti-Apple crowd. You seem to me to be in the middle group, those who don't give a damn what logo is on the box as long as it does the job you bought it to do.

Now, here's what I don't get, Bill - You say:

which have nothing at all to do with ForeFlight - You're not flying internationally, right? And ForeFlight isn't ever going to need access to a VPN...
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So, if I'm going to spend somewhere between $700 and $900 for a box - that I wouldn't need to buy at this stage except to support FF and lighten the cabin weight load a bit - then I ought to consider it for using it for other purposes. Say a weekend trip to London or a trip to Wings, or so forth where I need certain functions.

In that case, to substitute on a limited basis for the netbook (or corporate laptop) I would need personal email & access to certain other functions (requires VPN). I also need to be able to access/control my Canon 7D, including viewing and editing RAW files & Canon's h264 .mov files. I already know that a 64 MB storage space is insufficient for saving those large photo files on a longer trip (I shoot in RAW), so I'll have to use the netbook for a longer trip.

Here's where I am:

the corporate network can't be accessed - even web access - with an iPad. It won't run the plug-ins. The windows-based netbook will. There's no way around that, except, I suppose, buying a VNC package & configuring it behind a personal VPN on the home computer, assuming that the corporate web-access doesn't block that functionality (I'd bet they do). That requires leaving a windows-based box on the home network with a VPN firewall. Totally not practical.

Flash won't run. Strike certain functions I need to accomplish that I won't post about in an open forum. That could all be replaced but for a significant cost ($1200-$1500).

OpenVPN won't run (nor will straight IPSec), meaning I need to replace hardware on the personal email network to regain functionality. Again, doable but for a $500+ price tag, plus reconfiguration.

For a short trip, I can load pictures off the camera, but the native iPad can't view RAW nor can the moviemaker package view/edit the Canon .mov (yeah, I've done some research). One can get/buy an app, though. And I'd have to buy an iPad camera adapter just to get the pictures off the camera for extra $. The netbook runs Photoshop or Lightroom. I haven't researched the iPad far enough because, frankly, the cost of buying those packages again to run on the iPad runs costs up further.

So, yeah, I'd like to substitute for a short-term trip. Just tough to do.

Now, looking at your entire "ideal package":



It seems what you're wanting is a portable GPS, an EFB, and a full-on laptop all in one package. :dunno:
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In one small, thin package. See comments above. I've learned that the iPad is SIM-unlocked, so no problem taking it internationally & using a local SIM. That's good.

The ongoing cost of FF is a non-issue. It's amortizing the cost of purchasing an iPad that I really only need at this point for one very desirable function.

BTW, the SkyRadar *DOES* have a "usable BT connection" to the iPad. I looked at a few different things at OSH, both SkyRadar and NavWorx will connect to the iPad to provide an ADS-B In connection, and there's a third one whose name escapes me that's an aircraft-mounted ADS-B In/Out with a little WiFi module to connect the iPad.
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That's interesting. I didn't get that from their marketing material or website. It's actually a positive. Although I've already ordered the WxWorx interfact box, it's good to know there's an option. The drawback to ADB-B traffic with SkyRadar or the NavWorx portable box is that ADS-B is set up to only send you traffic information when it receives info from your plane.... meaning unless you have a 330ES transponder or an UAT on board, the traffic info will be lacking. Unfortunate.....
GPS on the WiFi unit: Agreed, that'd be nice. I think the reason it's not there is that without the assistance of the 3G network to improve the TTFF, the choice becomes either a long TTFF (bad user experience) or vastly shortened battery life (also bad user experience). IMO, they should sell all the iPads as WiFi + 3G at the price of the WiFi-only models and simply emphasize that a 3G connection is optional. There's no way the 3G/GPS chip from Broadcom costs anywhere near $130 (in fact, I would be really surprised if it's even $1.30). Unfortunately, I think the carriers would be REALLY mad if Apple told the world that you didn't NEED a 3G service plan on the 3G model iPads, so this one may be a political problem as much as anything. :dunno:
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Mostly agree. I actually think it's a matter of "we can charge a LOT more for having the 3G functionality, so let's do so". I personally think that the GPS is an afterthought - it's part of the chipset because the FCC requires position location for cellphones (even though it opens a LOT of functionality for the iPad device). Power may be an issue, but if Bad Elf and all sorts of other folks can include very low power, high accuracy GPS, Apple ought to be able to, too.

And actually you DON'T need a 3G plan on the 3G iPads. The carriers should be happy if it were included at a lower price. More uptake for PAYGO or low-cost plans. The carriers see it as "give away the razor.... sell the blades".

I'd gladly pay $20-30 more for GPS alone.

Printing: Agreed again. Tying printing to HP's proprietary AirPrint system is not smart - That leaves the user with very limited printing options. I think this might be "fixed" in iOS 5? But:

Don't you have a computer on your home network? Solutions like Printopia do not require you to actually plug the iPad into the computer. You're still printing wirelessly, it's just going through a computer on the WiFi network instead of directly to the printer.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but, why should I have to keep a computer running on the network, or fire it up (with the associated delay) just to print a few pages from the iPad? The network printer is sitting there always on.... and I don't leave my computers on (my nod to green-ness) save for the Unix server.

I mean, if they can support Airprint, they certainly ought to be able to support networked Postscript or another standard.

It's a workflow thing.
 
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alaskaflyer said:
Why have Foreflight at all if you want paper for all of that?

The chance that both my iPad and iPhone will crap out on me on one flight is approximately the same as all of my paper charts and flight plans being sucked out a window at the same time. Virtually nil.
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Well, I don't carry an iPhone and I don't intend to invest in one at this point. Especially a locked one (so we're talking somewhere in the range of $600 for a factory unlocked unit).

At the same time, I want a LIMITED amount of paper. Enough to get me down at the destination and a couple of select airports inbetween in an emergency. That may range from *none* if the route is pretty much VFR to a few if IMC.

By the way the print hack for Windows that Kent posted above works very well for me. I mostly leave my desktop machine on all the time anyhow.
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I don't leave the desktop on. Why burn the power and increase summer cooling bills?
 
EdFred said:
Someone said that FF on the iPad geo-refs you on the approach plates themselves. Is that not the case?
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I live in a high-rise in downtown Dallas about five miles south of KDAL. Sitting on my couch right now, FF shows me (the blue dot) a little left of the ILS inbound course for 31L but at about 900 feet MSL I'm well below the glideslope. And just kinda hanging here.
 
wsuffa said:
I've been around technology long enough to know that one needs to buy for possible future requirements, rather than "now needs".
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Good call - And the reason I bought a 64 gig iPad to begin with.

The drawback to ADB-B traffic with SkyRadar or the NavWorx portable box is that ADS-B is set up to only send you traffic information when it receives info from your plane.... meaning unless you have a 330ES transponder or an UAT on board, the traffic info will be lacking. Unfortunate.....
Click to expand...

Gaaah! Really? That sucks.

Yeah, but, why should I have to keep a computer running on the network, or fire it up (with the associated delay) just to print a few pages from the iPad? The network printer is sitting there always on.... and I don't leave my computers on (my nod to green-ness) save for the Unix server.
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What flavor of Unix? It can be done... http://sdbillin.kicks-ass.org/airprint-from-iphoneipad-on-ubuntu/ for example.
 
Foreflight new downloads available.

I noted that when I went to open FF that it would not open. Tapping the icon resulted in the app flashing open momentarily then minimizing back to the 'desktop'.
Once I went to the App Store icon and selected an update for FF there, only then would FF open. I guess it fails until you take a software update? (That would be unpleasant to discover just before a flight.)
Now I will do the database downloads, I have 175 - probably 30mins worth.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Foreflight new downloads available.

I noted that when I went to open FF that it would not open. Tapping the icon resulted in the app flashing open momentarily then minimizing back to the 'desktop'.
Once I went to the App Store icon and selected an update for FF there, only then would FF open. I guess it fails until you take a software update? (That would be unpleasant to discover just before a flight.)
Now I will do the database downloads, I have 175 - probably 30mins worth.
Click to expand...

Dave,

It was probably a bug. If that ever were to happen again, there is a way to fix it. I'm positive that if you had killed the app, it would have restarted.

Double click on the home button and a row of app icons will appear at the bottom. Those are the apps that you've been running. Touch and hold on one of those icons. They'll start to wiggle and red circles will appear in in the corner of the icons. Touch that circle to "kill" the app. Then, hit the home button to get out if "kill" mode. Relaunch the app and you should be good.

This method works whenever you have a problem with an app (not just foreflight).
 
Thanks for the kill method. It's working fine now (without killing it, just with the updates).

It uploaded the databases and is this new? Canada is a separate subscription now.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Thanks for the kill method. It's working fine now (without killing it, just with the updates).

It uploaded the databases and is this new? Canada is a separate subscription now.
Click to expand...

TangoWhiskey said:
Seconded! I didn't know that little trick before Jason's post.
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No problem. It's also the fastest way to go back and forth between two apps that you're using a lot.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Thanks for the kill method. It's working fine now (without killing it, just with the updates).

It uploaded the databases and is this new? Canada is a separate subscription now.
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The reason that it worked after the update is that it had to "kill" it to install the update. It wasn't the update that fixed it...but the fact that the app had to be restarted to apply said update.
 
jason said:
No problem. It's also the fastest way to go back and forth between two apps that you're using a lot.
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Another way I learned this week was, while on the 'desktop', scroll all the way left til the keyboard pops up, then type in the app name such as F, O, and up pops Foreflight as an option to open.
 
jason said:
No problem. It's also the fastest way to go back and forth between two apps that you're using a lot.
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Yeah, I use it the latter way, just didn't know you could use it to kill an app from running in the background! This is similar to the way you can touch and hold icons to move them into groups, but different!
 
Troy, have you discovered swiping the apps bar to the left after you've double clicked the home button?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
GPS on the WiFi unit: Agreed, that'd be nice. I think the reason it's not there is that without the assistance of the 3G network to improve the TTFF, the choice becomes either a long TTFF (bad user experience) or vastly shortened battery life (also bad user experience). IMO, they should sell all the iPads as WiFi + 3G at the price of the WiFi-only models and simply emphasize that a 3G connection is optional. There's no way the 3G/GPS chip from Broadcom costs anywhere near $130 (in fact, I would be really surprised if it's even $1.30). Unfortunately, I think the carriers would be REALLY mad if Apple told the world that you didn't NEED a 3G service plan on the 3G model iPads, so this one may be a political problem as much as anything. :dunno:
Click to expand...

I don't know what TTFF is - but if its "Time To Find Fix" or something similar, it should be pointed out that my wifi only Android Tablet, which has GPS, will find my location 1700 miles away from the last known location within 30 seconds, often within 15, so I don't think that's it.

I think its that Apple knows people want GPS, so they can milk an extra $300 out of the users to get it, when that's the only feature they want.

Not a slam on Apple, but reality.
 
SkyHog said:
I don't know what TTFF is - but if its "Time To Find Fix" or something similar, it should be pointed out that my wifi only Android Tablet, which has GPS, will find my location 1700 miles away from the last known location within 30 seconds, often within 15, so I don't think that's it.
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Time To First Fix.

And 30 seconds is completely unacceptable for most location-based mobile services. In fact, 5 seconds is really pushing it. When I open up UrbanSpoon to find a nearby place to eat, if I had to wait 30 seconds for the fix, I would NEVER use it. Bad UX.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Time To First Fix.

And 30 seconds is completely unacceptable for most location-based mobile services. In fact, 5 seconds is really pushing it. When I open up UrbanSpoon to find a nearby place to eat, if I had to wait 30 seconds for the fix, I would NEVER use it. Bad UX.
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Unacceptable to whom? Remember, 30 secs is the max. Just tried it and it too approximately 3 secs.
 
Heh. We're all old enough to remember the world without civilian GPS here aren't we? Maybe a few young enough to only remember GPS hampered by Selective Availability but still...

I think it's funny that we now demand location information from a pocket device down to 10m accuracy or better in less than 30 seconds. And 3 seconds is "good" but completely expected. :rofl:

My god! How did we ever find lunch without a GPS app?! ;) ;) ;)

(And yes, I like Urbanspoon and Yelp too!)

Raise your hand if you've ever sat in your living room shaking your iPhone hoping that "something different" will come up on Urbanspoon. LOL!
 
denverpilot said:
Heh. We're all old enough to remember the world without civilian GPS here aren't we? Maybe a few young enough to only remember GPS hampered by Selective Availability but still...

I think it's funny that we now demand location information from a pocket device down to 10m accuracy or better in less than 30 seconds. And 3 seconds is "good" but completely expected. :rofl:

My god! How did we ever find lunch without a GPS app?! ;) ;) ;)
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With the Yellow Pages. If my mobile device takes 30 seconds to find a fix, the yellow pages can be used faster.

We live in a world of "I want what I want RIGHT NOW" and you know darn well that the average user isn't going to accept a 30-second delay because "well, my phone has to figure out which satellites are in the sky and listen to them long enough to find me" - They're going to say "Dammit, this thing is a piece of crap! Apple sucks!" which is why Apple doesn't do something until they can do it right (for the most part, of course, nobody's perfect).

That's why there were no 3rd-party apps on the phone for the first year it was out - Apple wanted the world to know that the iPhone worked really well, and only once that was in the public consciousness did they open up an app store, with lots of restrictions, where developers could make the phone potentially work a little less well when their app was running. Restricting multitasking, same thing - All those things that people say they want, Nokia had before the iPhone even came out. Leo Laporte kept talking about how Apple needed to do this or that, because his Nokia N95 could do it, and almost in the same breath would ***** and moan about the N95's 45-minute battery life (45 minutes? on a cell phone? Completely idiotic).

But yes, I do remember a world without GPS. We spent billions of dollars on GPS so that guys wouldn't have to ask for directions any more. :rofl:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
With the Yellow Pages. If my mobile device takes 30 seconds to find a fix, the yellow pages can be used faster.

We live in a world of "I want what I want RIGHT NOW" and you know darn well that the average user isn't going to accept a 30-second delay because "well, my phone has to figure out which satellites are in the sky and listen to them long enough to find me" - They're going to say "Dammit, this thing is a piece of crap! Apple sucks!" which is why Apple doesn't do something until they can do it right (for the most part, of course, nobody's perfect).

That's why there were no 3rd-party apps on the phone for the first year it was out - Apple wanted the world to know that the iPhone worked really well, and only once that was in the public consciousness did they open up an app store, with lots of restrictions, where developers could make the phone potentially work a little less well when their app was running. Restricting multitasking, same thing - All those things that people say they want, Nokia had before the iPhone even came out. Leo Laporte kept talking about how Apple needed to do this or that, because his Nokia N95 could do it, and almost in the same breath would ***** and moan about the N95's 45-minute battery life (45 minutes? on a cell phone? Completely idiotic).

But yes, I do remember a world without GPS. We spent billions of dollars on GPS so that guys wouldn't have to ask for directions any more. :rofl:
Click to expand...

Of course, sometimes on 3G it takes 30 secomds to get a web page....

via Tapatalk
 
flyingcheesehead said:
With the Yellow Pages. If my mobile device takes 30 seconds to find a fix, the yellow pages can be used faster.
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Really? I didn't even know the Yellow Pages existed anymore! And I never learned how to use the Yellow Pages to sort through every restaurant, dry cleaners, grocery store, wine shop, etc., etc., etc., and list them by distance to my present location then, with the touch of a button give me directions by car, public transportation, or walking. I tried carrying the Yellow Pages in my pocket for a while, but it impacted my social life.

Would I like GPS fix identification (and 3G web page loading) to be instantaneous? Sure! Do I complain because it isn't? Rarely.

But then again, I remember having to find a phone booth when I needed to make a call.

:rofl:
 
Rndmtrvlr said:
Really? I didn't even know the Yellow Pages existed anymore! And I never learned how to use the Yellow Pages to sort through every restaurant, dry cleaners, grocery store, wine shop, etc., etc., etc., and list them by distance to my present location then, with the touch of a button give me directions by car, public transportation, or walking. I tried carrying the Yellow Pages in my pocket for a while, but it impacted my social life.

Would I like GPS fix identification (and 3G web page loading) to be instantaneous? Sure! Do I complain because it isn't? Rarely.
Click to expand...

Well, your phone won't list them by distance to your present location until it gets a fix, either...

Now, look... I'm a geek. I favor gadgets over more traditional means for anything possible a lot of the time. I've been the guy who goes to the extra effort to use the gadget even when it's harder/slower than "the old way." But that's bad user experience. Apple doesn't play that game. That's all I'm sayin'.

nddons said:
Guys did that? :dunno:
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:rofl: I guess I should have said "so guys wouldn't have to get nagged to ask for directions any more." :D
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Well, your phone won't list them by distance to your present location until it gets a fix, either...
Click to expand...

Yeah, but you asserted that thirty seconds tips the balance back in favor of the yellow pages. My point is that even if it takes thirty seconds to get a fix, it's still MUCH faster than flipping through the Yellow Pages, making a list of all the restaurants in the area, and plotting them on a map (assuming I'm carrying the Yellow Pages and a map in my hip pocket). That's all I'm saying!

I agree that Apple places a premium on the User Experience. Many of my grad school cohorts (M.S. in Human Factors, Rice University) went to work in their UI labs.

But they're also pretty savvy about the relationships with partners (like communications companies) and their production management (the benefit of including or not including the $1.39 chip in all sku's rather than not), and that those are the likely culprits in driving the platform decisions, not the desire to save a few seconds in satellite acquisition.

But who knows? :dunno:
 
Just think. There's a generation being alive now who'd wonder what a "Yellow Pages" even is/was. ;)
 
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