New Navy P-8A

KennyFlys said:
When I was in, I sure recall the chiefs knowing a heck of a lot more what was going on than the "zeros." On the boat, the chiefs ate as well or better than the skipper. Chief petty officers were highly regarded. Junior officers were merely respected.
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Of course the Chiefs "know more" --- they tell you about it constantly.:rolleyes:

The Army doesn't have the separation between officer and enlisted seen in the Navy or even the Air Force.

As a Platoon Leader I ate last, slept last, was up first, road marched the furthest, had to be able to shoot, move, and communicate as well as anyone in the Platoon -- in short, I earned respect because I was doing all they did and had far less time to master it all (my first PSG had 14 years in the Army -- I'd just finished OCS and 3 months of Armor School -- of course I was prior service NCO, so that helped).

I relied on him for technical details, and he deferred to me on planning and mission execution.

I called him "Sergeant" and he called me "L.T." or "Sir."

I was also an Infantry Company Commander. My First Sergeant referred to officers as "Zeros" and pulled me aside to tell me "how it was going to be."

I set him straight in about 5 seconds. He moved on to greener pastures.

Too many (not all) Senior NCOS spread alot of crap about officers because they didn't have the smarts or intestinal fortitude to suck it up, take off the insignia, and put up with OCS and get the commission.

You wanna be in charge? Go through what I did and then get back to me.
 
When I first went to VS-31, the skipper was known to be found at overseas bars with some enlisted men. He was of the philosophy you took care of those you commanded and depended on. I think Dave S recounted a similar philosophy and his life was more at risk among his enlisted than this skipper.

Later, the XO became skipper and he went the other direction. He was so hard core and demanding, he was not well liked. Respected? Yes. But, merely by his rank.

Those I actually thought of as "zeros" were those who showed little or no respect for those with lesser rank. Respect goes both ways. Junior officers with an ounce of common sense didn't screw around with most chiefs because those chiefs at that time already had twice as many or more years in than the average O-3. The best officers were those who received respect not just because of rank but because they deferred to those with the experience and skill along with showing respect for those they commanded. No one screwed with the Master Cheif Petty Officer of the Command (MCPOC). He got every ounce of respect possible throughout the ranks; just no salute.

You can "award" someone another stripe, a bar or even an oak leaf. That doesn't mean they've earned it, especially if those they command are not respected for the job done.

Right now, I can think of a couple former officers on this board who would have likely had my respect and a couple others who might not have had any respect beyond a salute.
 
KennyFlys said:
Those I actually thought of as "zeros" were those who showed little or no respect for those with lesser rank. Respect goes both ways. Junior officers with an ounce of common sense didn't screw around with most chiefs because those chiefs at that time already had twice as many or more years in than the average O-3. The best officers were those who received respect not just because of rank but because they deferred to those with the experience and skill along with showing respect for those they commanded. No one screwed with the Master Cheif Petty Officer of the Command (MCPOC). He got every ounce of respect possible throughout the ranks; just no salute.
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I'll agree with most of this. As a Platoon Leader, I made few decisions without my PSG -- "Sergeant Fillkill, what do you think of this...?"

But in the end it was my decision. After discussing with him I'd get in front of the Platoon and say "We're going to do X..."

They were my orders, not his.

And that's the way we both wanted it. If I said, "Well Sergeant and I discussed it and..." Why the heck was I there? Soldiers don't want a commitee --They want leadership.

It was no different with my Infantry company. After open and frank discussion with all the senior NCOs there was a decision, and that was that. 90% of the time it's what we all wanted.

But you get paid the Big Bucks for the other 10%.

As far as awards -- let me tell you this. When I left my Armor Platoon to move on to Scouts my PSG came up to me and said, "Sir, the last two years have been the best years I've had in the Army."

I'd gladly toss all 4 rows of medals for that alone.
 
Then, you earned respect because of the type of leader you were. Not merely because of your rank. Those are the kind of officers needed.

I can't speak to officer advancement. But, I saw enlisted men advanced because they were excellent at kissing ass. Neither they nor those they kissed were worth the salt you could squish from their bodies. Such commands will be the worst battle-ready commands.

I never knew for certain but I recall something about that first skipper I referenced also being a mustang.
 
KennyFlys said:
I never knew for certain but I recall something about that first skipper I referenced also being a mustang.
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I have a prejudice for OCS types. There's nothing like a few years in the trenches to square you away.

West Point officers were either very good or very bad. None were middling.

ROTC were all over the map.
 
Henning said:
Customs has been flying P-3s as long as I can remember....
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DEA and Customs also flew the E-2 in the mid 80's. My friend and I, both prior aircrew, were recruited while we were at CSC. He was single, foot-loose and fancy free and accepted, while I, being married, declined.
 
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